hey, from a network rep

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

I work for a network and i've been lurking here for quite some time. I figured I'd sign up and post where I thought I could add a bit of info. While there are many people here who would prefer I don't come around, I'm sure there are more people who'd like a network's opinion on what they're doing to prevent bannings/lead reversals etc.

I'm not here to plug my network, so you won't see me name it, put it in a post, or put it in my sig. I just want to help those who are serious about generating traffic/cash without ripping off merchants and losing their network accounts.

ximscreamingx · Jul 6, 2008

Welcome, there are plenty of network owners and affiliate managers in here. Feel free to look around.

Xim

Spdbmp · Jul 6, 2008

Hey network guy.
Some insight from the inside could indeed prove to be helpful. (if that is in fact your goal)

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

Yeah, that's my goal. If all I wanted to do was find people to ban, I'd remain a lurker.

ximscreamingx · Jul 6, 2008

Since you're not going to name your network, maybe you can answer us this. How much, as a percentage, does the average network fuck their affiliates with shaving leads. I'm thinking anywhere between 8-14% as a conservative guess, but I'd just like to know.

Because thats the exact percentage of fake leads I'm going to start stuffing down every single network out there...

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

Genjutsu said:
So say, for example I wanted to generate fake leads? Can you help me by supplying me with them? I will pay top $$ and with your help, we can rule the world.

Actually, no, I would not help you. Fake leads = pissed off merchants = non-payment for leads = reversed leads and getting booted.

There are a whole range of BH activities. Some are for gaming traffic, but still lead to good leads. Some are for gaming results, leading to shit leads that merchants hate. Some do both. I'm here to say what my network would put up with, and what we wouldn't.

Rule of thumb: it all comes down to lead quality. If the leads are crap, there will be issues. If the leads are good, then chances are nobody's going to care how you get the traffic.

ximscreamingx · Jul 6, 2008

So what if all of my leads came from strict white hat methods, but I was the worst marketer on earth buying bannerspace on totally unrelated websites for my offers, my leads would be shit, and you would ban me, not for blackhat methods, but just for lead quality.

Seems like a big "FUCK YOU" to me

FromANetwork said:
Rule of thumb: it all comes down to lead quality. If the leads are crap, there will be issues. If the leads are good, then chances are nobody's going to care how you get the traffic.

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

ximscreamingx said:
Since you're not going to name your network, maybe you can answer us this. How much, as a percentage, does the average network fuck their affiliates with shaving leads. I'm thinking anywhere between 8-14% as a conservative guess, but I'd just like to know.

Because thats the exact percentage of fake leads I'm going to start stuffing down every single network out there...

Sure, I can answer it - and know that since I'm anonymous here, I've got absolutely nothing to gain by lying. My network does not shave any leads whatsoever. Things that can happen in my network that would lead to lost leads: we scrub fake/invalid leads are reported to us by the merchant, dropped tracking cookies (we depend on cookies for tracking like most other networks), abandoned confirmation pages (the surfer leaves the confirmation page before the tracking pixel loads), and MERCHANT shaving.

Regarding merchant shaving - we don't condone it and will drop a relationship with a merchant if we can prove they're shaving. However, it's extremely difficult to prove they're doing that.

As far as other networks are concerned, I have no clue about how much they might shave. They certainly aren't going to make this info public if they do it.

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

ximscreamingx said:
So what if all of my leads came from strict white hat methods, but I was the worst marketer on earth buying bannerspace on totally unrelated websites for my offers, my leads would be shit, and you would ban me, not for blackhat methods, but just for lead quality.

Seems like a big "FUCK YOU" to me

If you are buying shit unrelated traffic, I'd be willing to bet most people wouldn't signing up for the offer in the banner. If they do, they're probably somewhat interested so the quality wouldn't be that bad.

However, if the quality is bad and you are whitehat, you wouldn't be banned. You might get pulled from the one offer that isn't working out, but you wouldn't be banned. This type of stuff happens all the time.

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

Genjutsu said:
I guessed you missed my point. You would take "good" leads from other affilaites and give them to me. Thats the part in generating fake leads. So you in or out?

Sorry, still nope. Participating in the creation of fake leads, anywhere in the chain, is something I wouldn't do.

hardsoft · Jul 6, 2008

To FromANetwork:

I think its pretty cool of you to come in here and help us out. Anyways, my question is... If you are incentivizing an offer even if its non-incentivizable, but the lead quality is good and converts for the merchant... would you allow the affiliate to keep on incentivizing the offer?

crsk8andsno56 · Jul 6, 2008

Glad to have you hear will be interesting to see some posts...

Are you able to tell us stuff about the backend of your company that would help us with BH stuff? IE cookiestuffing

???

Im sure Ill have some semi-WH q's too

Are you one of the bigger networks or an up and comer

Spdbmp · Jul 6, 2008

FromANetwork said:
If all I wanted to do was find people to ban, I'd remain a lurker.

LOL, Good Point; -->Welcome

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

hardsoft said:
To FromANetwork:

I think its pretty cool of you to come in here and help us out. Anyways, my question is... If you are incentivizing an offer even if its non-incentivizable, but the lead quality is good and converts for the merchant... would you allow the affiliate to keep on incentivizing the offer?

Tough question to answer. Not because it's difficult, but there are many ways this could go. First thing though, incentive traffic is rarely good quality. Some of our long term high-end incentive affiliates have tried non-incent campaigns (with merchant permission) and it hasn't worked out well.

Deciding on your traffic would depend on your history with us, our relationship with the merchant, the nature of the incentive you are giving, and the volume you are doing. I can tell you for sure that we would get permission from the merchant, and would ask you to stop if the merchant was dead-set against it.

boomboomer · Jul 6, 2008

lol .. The most interesting intro thread I've seen.

Welcome aboard FromANetwork

MaxSteve · Jul 6, 2008

crsk8andsno56 said:
Glad to have you hear will be interesting to see some posts...

Are you able to tell us stuff about the backend of your company that would help us with BH stuff? IE cookiestuffing ???

Im sure Ill have some semi-WH q's too

Are you one of the bigger networks or an up and comer

Won't be able to actually help you with the BH stuff. Commenting and answering questions is one thing, helping out kinda puts me in a conflict of interest situation.

I don't care to comment on anything related to the identity of my network.

crsk8andsno56 · Jul 6, 2008

Alright thats fine Im glad your here none the less... Im sure Ill find some WH stuff to ask you about

crsk8andsno56 · Jul 6, 2008

Oh one thing alot of people have interest about is general affiliate acceptance into companies.
What are some of the top things you look at?
I dont do ALOT of organic marketing so its always hard for me when they ask "Put 4 websites with high traffic you own here" I have a few 1k + websites but nothing extraordinary

What are some of the things you look at into getting rejected and accepted.

vmedia · Jul 6, 2008

No offense but I haven't heard anything of real value yet. I'd like to see some specifics like areas to focus on, new marketing techniques, what the trends indicate, etc. Some actual information would be useful rather than just stating "hi, here i am, joe network lurker."

hardsoft said:
To FromANetwork:

I think its pretty cool of you to come in here and help us out. Anyways, my question is... If you are incentivizing an offer even if its non-incentivizable, but the lead quality is good and converts for the merchant... would you allow the affiliate to keep on incentivizing the offer?

crsk8andsno56 · Jul 6, 2008

Lol VM... Hes ( or she) not going to hand it to us on a silver platter.... Ask questions.. get answers

hey, from a network rep

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