HAF section thoughts.

i was reading a shit list today where basstracker commented

Folks, if you want to buy a product or service see if it is offered in the
marketplace here before hiring someone that does not have a sales t
hread. The majority of issues are from randomers that are just
responding to HAF requests that have no Mod oversite as opposed to
the sellers who are moderated by the Marketplace Mods.

the fact that a mod is clearly saying alot of the problems and i take that as scams?
come from random people, im assuming low post or new members
replying to HAF threads taking the money and running.

the fact it is openly said there are issue with HAF section maybe its time to fix it
people been sayin for years something will be done, nothing has .
just put a 500 post count limit on replys to HAF threads and u cut out new members
and low post lurker accounts replying ... its a start right........

if a mods knows theres issues in there, either moderate it, shut it down
or place hi restrictions on replys to haf threads....
kinda sucks we vips pay to sell here, but the haf section has always been a way
round selling something without vip status. we pay, so should they.

That is exactly I was thinking should happen. 90% of scammer wouldn't even bother to join bhw just to scam people. And who would join would have to post 500 posts, which would take atleast a year. So that'd be the best option to fight this scam fest I guess!

Just perform your due diligence, with extreme prejudice, in all cases when hiring a freelancer, here or anywhere else.

A high percentage of people who are scammed are the victims of their own greed or naïveté.

The mods have dozens of sticky threads regarding avoiding scams and properly vetting potential freelancers.

Speaking as a potential employer of freelancers, I can assure you that your having a marketplace approved thread and jrVIP status would be a favourable asset when I am hiring.

Hiring a newbie who has no history, has no feedback or only sketchy reviews and hasn't paid to post their offers is an immediate red flag for me and should be for anyone.

It does need some work. I often find myself commenting on threads opened there. What needs to happen is an approval of threads process like what's in JV and the marketplace. Hell I'd even help mods out with managing it if they wanted. Something to help clear that area up.

+1 for this, there is need of 500 post limit to post in HAF section.

Agreed, that a lot of scams originate from this section. If you look at the SL threads, most of the scams are by repeat offenders creating new accounts. And with so many sites dedicated for freelancing available, the section (unless moderated or highly restricted as you mentioned) doesn't really add any value to the forum except for the scams.

BTW did you buy a new keyboard ?

like i said if a mod can say

The majority of issues are from randomers that are just
responding to HAF requests that have no Mod oversite

thats kinda leaving a free open area for scammer to go as its now openly
said not moderated, thats not the impression we should give to any
areas of bhw - just observation.

if haf is a weak spot of the forum best to do something about it
as saying no Mod oversite makes it look enticing to scammers
as they now no if they didnt b4 no oversite sends them wrong
signal

The Hire A Freelancer section is moderated (although, as you already know, not in the same way as the Joint Ventures section). I know this because the other moderators frequently ban the previously banned members I report in that section. However, the problem is not simply with the Hire A Freelancer section; it's actually a bit more convoluted than isolating the problem to one section. In fact, it's not even as simple as isolating the problem to the 3 main sections these issues arise in as most of these scammers will find and have already found other ways to get around any sub-forum restrictions that would be imposed. I'm going to avoid mentioning the "other ways" these scammers are doing this as I don't want to give anyone any ideas, but it's because of what they're doing that sub-forum restrictions just wouldn't be enough.

In case you wondering, the 3 main problematic subforums I'm referred to are as follows:

• The Hire A Freelancer section: I'm sure you already know the problems here.
• The Want To Buy section: Same issues as the HaF section.
• The Joint Ventures Section: The problems are almost never related to the OP (as they need to get the thread approved), but with the people who respond to the OP.

There were other subforums not too long ago that were used as quasi-marketplaces, but the admins and other moderators have cleaned those sections up.

Now, just to clarify, I'm not saying there isn't a problem in the Hire A Freelancer section, but rather that the problem needs to be dealt with strategically. At one point in time, I thought that the admins could just prohibit Skype rendezvous or ban the word "Skype" for new members, but in the past few months, I've noticed many would-be Skype scammers already using preemptive tactics against this (I bet you've seen it, too). Scapegoating Skype users could also harm other members who legitimately use Skype, which is why I never bothered mentioning it.

You got my vote @proxygo

The HAF and WTB sections have been a bit woolly but this is something we discussed a few days ago and are working on. Basically, those areas aren't a free-for-all, they're meant for Jr VIPs to link back to the marketplace threads and Donor members that have paid for signatures.
However, there's often stuff posted there that isn't available in the marketplace which led to a big grey area.

Coincidentally, last Thursday and Friday we were writing new rules for the sections which will basically reflect what I've said above. So, we'll post them soon and please report anyone you see selling on the sections in contravention of the rules.

Apricot said:

The HAF and WTB sections have been a bit woolly but this is something we discussed a few days ago and are working on. Basically, those areas aren't a free-for-all, they're meant for Jr VIPs to link back to the marketplace threads and Donor members that have paid for signatures.
However, there's often stuff posted there that isn't available in the marketplace which led to a big grey area.

Coincidentally, last Thursday and Friday we were writing new rules for the sections which will basically reflect what I've said above. So, we'll post them soon and please report anyone you see selling on the sections in contravention of the rules.

Click to expand...

So, an easy fix would maybe making the HAF section only viewable by VIPS?

ty apricot my comment above at top ment no dis-respect to BASS in anyway
just want that out there, just thinking idiots around here who might see we dont
moderate is writen by a mod might let them think, well we try stuff here.
anyways ty. and to zw as well.

Skyebug77 said:

So, an easy fix would maybe making the HAF section only viewable by VIPS?

Click to expand...

How would that work, then? People posting HAF or WTB requests that aren't Jr VIP wouldn't be able to see replies to their threads? I know there's lots of members here that who want to limit things to Jr VIP or people with over 500 posts but all that's likely to do is kill off that section's activity overnight.

proxygo said:

ty apricot my comment above at top ment no dis-respect to BASS in anyway
just want that out there, just thinking idiots around here who might see we dont
moderate is writen by a mod might let them think, well we try stuff here.
anyways ty. and to zw as well.

Click to expand...

BTB wasn't saying we don't moderate on those sections though. He's just saying that we don't review the services offered in the replies and people should always use marketplace services that have been properly reviewed wherever possible. It's just common sense - there's no viable way that we can check every single service in every single reply.

Also, sometimes people wants services that aren't available in the marketplace. In particular the HAF section isn't going to be of huge interest for most Jr VIP's with a marketplace thread. This is why the rules surrounding the sections have been a little fuzzy till now but we'll update them and I'll clean the latest threads up.

I'm aware of some members who spend their time on those forums exclusively spamming "I can do this, skype me" to virtually every request. I've already removed a few and will continue tidying these up but if you see people like this, please report them.

500 posts seems pretty steep.

I only have 550+ and I'm one of the best members here.
yea you read that right.

A small addition to this thread:

Restricting access to posting in the HAF section to users with 15 posts.They cannot send PMs anyway if they don't have 15 posts and they're account is already limited at that point any way.

I might be missing something, but you can just add a user group promotion, revoke posting posting permission for registered users group, and allow it for the promoted user group when post count is > 15.

Just a thought. Cheers!

Well, let me put it this way.

I have got works worth few $ks from people posting in HAF who had less than 15 posts.

I had less than 500 posts back then.

Some kind of restriction is needed there, yes, but doing this will cut the activity in half.

Kickass programmers dont go around posting all day everyday in forums. (I have 500+ though. Maybe I am not that kickass )

And serious buyers buy stuff and pay. They dont lurk around forums posting.

P.S : I was a Jr.VIP till 2 weeks back, and I am going to renew in a week. Its good to be blue.

I agree that SOMETHING needs to be done about the HAF section of BHW. I'm not sure about what should be done, but something seriously needs to happen. Whether it's age of account, post count, or something. Thing is, it's not the OP, in most instances. Rather, it's the random people that popup, asking to communicate on Skype.

There are 2 things I see with most SL threads...

1. A buyer or seller from HAF.
2. A Skype chat log.

Perhaps "Skype" should be a banned word. While that may be a bit extreme, Skype is the #1 culprit for SL threads.

I think we should all continue to brainstorm about potential solutions for rectifying the rise of scams, before BHW earns a bad reputation for housing scammers. It's not too late. I love what the SL section stands for, and how the actions are carried out, but someone could just as easily create a new account to scam with, since HAF has no restrictions. A ban just isn't enough.

problem will always be so many idea not enough hrs in the day
with everything else going on in/out bhw for the mods.
maybe 1 day.

proxygo said:

problem will always be so many idea not enough hrs in the day
with everything else going on in/out bhw for the mods.
maybe 1 day.

Click to expand...

We're on it, as Apricot said...

Apricot said:

this is something we discussed a few days ago and are working on.

Click to expand...