Google aint so smart

MDSOperandi - I see a large amount of awesomeness and a little bit of naivety.

The awesomeness comes from a well thought out and executed experiment. Thanks for the share.

The naivety comes from believing that Google is not that smart. Google is a business and any business works on the Pareto Principle (all businesses do). For the layman, it is known as the 80:20 law.

The Panda update came about because their search results were filling up with farmed crap that we were putting out there. They wanted to get rid of it, but here is the problem. If you want to get rid of 100% of the spammers, then you are going to take out legit sites with friendly fire. That's bad PR and would harm market share. How much of the spam can you take out while minimizing the negative effects? About 80%.

Your thought out strategy falls into that 20% that is still left as a loophole. In comparison, look at other threads on this site complaining about de-indexing or 6 month sandboxing for the strategies that fell into the 80%.

Footnote - G keeps on updating their algorithms to keep track of technology. What worked 2 years ago will get your ass kicked today. Our 20% loophole keeps moving, which is why sharing always deserves a thanks (given).
 
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Hey all, thanks for the feedback; Ok, perhaps I *should* have not labeled the thread as
"Google aint that smart"; Of course they are smart, you do not become as big as they do by being stupid. Of course Google is clever, they are more powerful and have the brightest developers available on earth. What I was simply trying to convey was that people put too much emphasis on what they read / hear and blindly believe it.

I wanted people to realise that if they are going to do blackhat (e.g. Cloaking) then it's time to do some more work hence my approach of applying checksums / reverse IP lookups etc

If nothing else comes of this thread I hope that I may have at least motivated a single person to re-look their approach. There will be another Panda like update no doubt and my little sites may well be knocked out in the next update but until then they have more then returned what they owe to me.

So in summary; be pro-active rather then re-active when it comes to BlackHat and don't believe all the hype, do your own tests and learn from them.

Google is smart :D
 
MDSOperandi said:
With all this talk of the Panda updates / spammy links and the end is nigh for blackhat etc I decided there was just one thing to do: Do a little test!

It was to be a combination of the following:

Intelligent cloaking (More about this later)
Leveraging an existing domain purchased on the domain aftermarket
Backlinks via
* A series of open link wheels
* PhpLink Directory submission (Xrumer Mod to to this)
* Forum profiles / Forum posting (Xrumer again)
* Scrapebox / BacklinkBrigand blog / guestbook posts
* Manual backlinks via a VA

I wont go into too much detail about link pyramids etc as all this information is covered in this forum in detail but here are some specifics that some people may not know about:

Cloaking:
My cloaking mechanism is really quite simple, I have two pages, one for the bots and one for the humans. Obviously when a bot arrives they see the bot page and when the human arrives they see the human page.

The challenge here is to ensure that the bot identification database is *always* up to date. Forget about using useragents, they can be faked easily and the bot IP databases that are updated every n hours can let bots new through until the database is updated. If a single bot gets through and compares what one bot sees to what another bot sees and they are different (CheckSum people) then you are in deep $hit. RedFlag Which leads me to my next point

Checksum:
You have two pages, one for the bots and one for the humans. It's no secret that computers think in numbers so, what would be the fastest way for a computer to check that two pages (bot page and heaven forbid a human page "seen" by a bot) are different? Pagesize.

If you have two pages and one is for the human and one is for the bot and they are way different sizes (a few k is no biggie) then you are gone. Think about it, why would one page (which is supposed to be the same page) be different for a bot then for a human??? RedFlag So the key is to ensure that your Human page and Bot page are the same size: Build your cloaked page first and then append   a shim.gif a bunch of <td>'s or whatever to make the two of them the same size (I also ensure that there are the same number of images etc but yo get the idea)

Screening incoming visitors:
So, to ensure that every visitor is who they say they are I lookup up my IP database to see if the visitor is a GoogleBot. If they are the Google bot then they get the "cloaked page" and life is good.

If the IP is not in my database then the "GateKeeper" steps in and does both a forward and reverse DNS look up to see who the IP actually is. If they are the GoogleBot then they are added to my database and shown then "cloaked page". On occasion an IP does not come back clean meaning the forward / reverse does not add up. In that instance I actually make a webrequest and scrape the WhoIS info. Reverse / Forward DNS hardly ever fails but when it does I am prepared.

So, that is the basic premise of my cloaking, dynamic identification of bots and checksum between the two pages. Works really well and has kept crappy cloaked .infos alive and inside the Google index for coming up to two years so like I said Google aint so smart

Domain name on the domain aftermarket:
The second main step of my test was to get a domain with some age to it (It's no secret that Google like aged domains so I cheated here) so I got one off the Godaddy aftermarket (Pretty generic domain which did not contain the keyword), it did have some incoming links and a PR of 2 (which I may / may not lose in the next PR update, it does not bother me)


LinkBuilding / Niche:
I then chose my niche (simple clickbank product which paid $45 per sale) and wrote a unique article on the product and then created the keyword rich cloaked page ensuring that the checksum between the two matched.

I then set about link building using the usual suspects: Xrumer / SENuke / BacklinkBrigand and got my VA to do some manual link building.

I then used pingler to ping my website and continued to gradually build links over a period of weeks (I think long term).

Specifically I used SENuke to build "feeder" pages to my main page and then used Xrumer / Senuke / BacklinkBrigand to link to those feeder pages. This is all very old news and something that people have been doing for a long time so like I said Google aint so smart

I then used Xrumer to submit my new website to phpLink directories (I have a mod to do this) and chose *the relevant category* when submitting the site (A relevant category is very important if you want the phpLink directory submissions to stick).

A note about Xrumer; I use the rgen.exe util alot, it works and it works well and enables me to link to the main page without to much drama. The old "Hi, I'm new here" xrumer posts are rubbish, learn Xrumer and learn it well.

I also paid for Decaptcher / CaptchaBot (for Xrumer) to ensure that links were getting submitted correctly.

The final results:
I then watched my website climb up the serps (there was a small Google Dance but during this time I continued to build links *gradually*) and it has been sitting between spots 3 and 5 for the last three months.

Total time to build the website was just under an hour and a half: Total spent on domain and captcha was $9 for the domain, around $10 on Decaptcher / CaptchaBot and paid my VA $22 to do the manual submissions.

Earnings so far have been averaging four sales per week for the last three months @ $45 per sale: Total profit returned: Just under $2000

Summary:
I purchased a domain on the aftermarket to get around the new domain penalty Google aint so smart

I used intelligent cloaking to feed the bots with keyword "rich" pages Google aint so smart

I used a tried and tested procedures (LinkWheel) to build backlinks which contrary to what Matt Cutts would have you believe still worked well Google aint so smart

I used tools that were freely available to purchase on the Internet (Do you honestly believe that Google does not have copy of Xrumer / SENuke et al) and used them intelligently (I'll say that again INTELLIGENTLY) to get backlinks to my website in order to push it higher in the serps Google aint so smart

I turned an investment of just over $40 and an hour and a half of my time into just under $2000 (so far) using everything that I really shouldn't have Google aint so smart

Remember Google also killed a ton of beautiful whitehat sites with their Panda update meaning they just blanket applied a computer algorithm that could not tell the difference between some crappy auto-blogs and some peoples "livelyhood" website which had been around for years and had SEO done properly Google aint so smart

Finally, Google even kicked it's own website out of it's own index

I'll finish as I started Google aint so smart

Any questions shoot :D
Click to expand...

It ia a joke. I really had fun when i read a thread where a guy generated 1 000 scrapebox links a day with just scrapebox spammy autoapprove list. It is just a joke.

This thread is joke too. Do you really think that clocked site would last more that 2 days. You do. I agree that that was true in 2003.

You just need to be smart :). Do you sell another book how to do cloaking smart.

But i am amazed there are people believes you. Cloack and Spam. If that was true there would be no any sites with any real info on the world - just the spammy ones.
 
spasovski said:
I don't know why some members here attack the OP saying all sorts of stuff.
P.S. Google's employees are human you know. They are not super intelligent aliens with 500 IQ...
Click to expand...

Because people so desperately NEED to believe in unreachable unintelligible entities... It also gives them a good excuse with themselves not to take action since G is supposedly soooo smart on the "very valid" evidence that it's... well, google... Nice one... :eek:

I made so many tests myself on google over the years using a variety of techniques ranging from verbatim super dummy cut-n-pastes of content (ranking perfectly on G as of today) to AI bots targeting prospects leveraging and gaming guess who... google products using sneaky ways to load my adsense accountS (notice the final S? lol) that I got tired to tell others what OP presented so clearly in his CB case study.

Just to reiterate Google ain't so smart and not only with SERPs also their other services are not really the most difficult targets to exploit massively... Stop giving yourself an excuse NOT to make money with Google. Their algos can and ARE gamed each and every day by fellow bhatters and it's totally NOT rocket science. If you let yourself be scared by this propaganda you'll be missing a BIG chunk of online profits.

Regards.
 
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This thread is joke too. Do you really think that clocked site would last more that 2 days. You do. I agree that that was true in 2003.
Click to expand...

Did you actually read the thread?? There was alot more contained in the thread then just Spam and Cloak, I even wrote how I use Xrumer...

Anyway, I'm not posting anymore on this thread, believe what you will and like I said if nothing else hopefully I may have motivated some people to up their game if they are using BlackHat tactics.

Peace and all the best :)
 
It will always be a back and forth with us and them. Always.
 
sirgold said:
Because people so desperately NEED to believe in unreachable unintelligible entities... It also gives them a good excuse with themselves not to take action since G is supposedly soooo smart on the "very valid" evidence that it's... well, google... Nice one... :eek:

I made so many tests myself on google over the years using a variety of techniques ranging from verbatim super dummy cut-n-pastes of content (ranking perfectly on G as of today) to AI bots targeting prospects leveraging and gaming guess who... google products using sneaky ways to load my adsense accountS (notice the final S? lol) that I got tired to tell others what OP presented so clearly in his CB case study.

Just to reiterate Google ain't so smart and not only with SERPs also their other services are not really the most difficult targets to exploit massively... Stop giving yourself an excuse NOT to make money with Google. Their algos can and ARE gamed each and every day by fellow bhatters and it's totally NOT rocket science. If you let yourself be scared by this propaganda you'll be missing a BIG chunk of online profits.

Regards.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is exactly what i wanted to say. Trough the years, google has successfully managed to put marketeers in a box and make them believe it is virtually untouchable.
No one wants to blame him self for his failure and therefore blames google for it's "supremacy"

Google successfully implemented supremacy in 70% of the online world and now the rest is doing the same among each other.
 
The reason why people have problems is because they "aren't so smart".

They get a fresh copy of Scrapebox, and 100k URLs they snagged from BHW. 500 other people have already spammed those URLs with their viagra and bad english posts.

Those urls they downloaded from here, will soon be deemed as "spam sites" and the backlinks won't be worth the bandwidth. So they blast all 100k, majority are PR0 sites. Plus they are all spammed to hell, and just the bottom of the barrel when it comes to places to get a backlink from. Not to mention the fact that they used the default comments that 100s of other people are using.. Then they wonder why their site isn't showing up...

The tool is only as good as the operator.

The tools still work, the methods still work, you just have to know what your doing with them.
 
They aren't so smart because there is no need for that. They still have the best method to automatically recognize relevant sites, which is by counting links. The competitors aren't allowed to do that.

Problem is, the method can be easily gamed. So there is a choice, invest a lot of money to tweak algos to no end, introducing possible new weak spots in the process
OR
every once in a while claim you make a well-thought update and indiscriminately drop the top rankers in a bunch of niches. I mean it's not like there are no worthy alternatives currently sitting at position 500 etc.

It's 'confuse and conquer' in the online world.

This strategy always works PR wise. First the schadenfreude: there are more webmasters that are not ranking than webmasters that are ranking. So the majority is pleased whenever a minority falls from grace.
Secondly, it adds confusion. People don't see content farms anymore and think that they are gone... what is gone is the brand, the domain. The texts are back, all over the place. They always were, as scraped by others, only the top slots used to be occupied :D

In this regard, old tricks will always work. The only thing to be aware of (imo) is to start again when needed. Once a site is killed, it's just not worth it to try rescuing it. It would require at least as much effort as starting afresh.
 
Nice thread, interesting read :)

One thing that annoys me about some of the members of this community is that they're so quick to attack and put down the OP and the information that they supply, yet never really add anything interesting or useful themselves... :rolleyes:
 
I agree with the OP 100%. Cloaking still works.

Sure you lose sites, mostly through being reported by whiny other IM'ers as your sites rise to the top and push theirs down, but if you're not prepared to build in bulk and treat domains as disposable you won't get anywhere with cloaking. You also lose sites as google tweaks it's algos, but then so do people who put hundreds of hours into their sites.

Turning $45 into $2000 is fantastic ROI, better than most will ever see with other methods.

This is BH World, not whiny WH World, so like all good blackhats do your own tests then comment, don't just take googles word for everything. Op is right, Google ain't so smart! and I have the bank accounts stuffed by BH methods like cloaking to prove it.
 
This thread is great for 2 reasons:

1. First and foremost, it shows that having a detailed plan and more importantly, taking ACTION on that plan is what gets results.

2. It shows that Google is just a machine, and if you pay attention to what they are doing, you CAN exploit their algorithm changes and continue to profit.

There are so many webmasters out there that get freaked out about big algorithm changes and call it quits, but the reality is that Google pretty much tells you what they are going to do.

If you listen, you will not only be prepared, but you will be miles ahead of your competition.

Great post OP.
 
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