Generating leads? You are doing it WRONG (here's why)

You will probably not understand this post if you never generated leads.
Which is why you should read it.

Less tactics, more thinking and how-tos.
But I promise you that if you get this, you'll be able to apply it to any business.

When you are starting a business,
There's one word with a big weight that will determine your success...

Scaleability - Your ability to scale.

But I look at scaleability from a different lens, not how much I can scale.
But how easy is it going to be for me to scale.

For example, my acquaintance has a Locksmith business, he has over 20 technicians(!!).
And no matter what he does, he can't cross the 30k/month benchmark.

Me on the other hand? I provide him the leads for a hefty commission of 40-50%.
So who has a better business structure?
Hell yeah.

But not all roads leads to Rome.

There are plenty of guys doing Rank And Rent / SEO / Ads for local businesses.
All working on a valid business model. But a model which is hard to SCALE

They are investing hundreds of hours and capital to a business model that has a glass ceiling.
Where the only way they got to scale is by taking more work. more locations. more business owners to work for.
And no doubt, if you put in years of hard work you will scale.

But remember, it's not about how much you can scale.
It's about how EASY it's going to be for you to scale.

The math is simple - A tree removal lead is being sold for 100-150$
A tree removal job is 1000-2000 per tree, average job range around 3k$

Would you rather sell 10 leads to a contractor or get 25% on the jobs that were closed?

What if instead of working FOR the business, you can work WITH the business...
How do you that?
Simple, the same way I do it, taking 10-50% commission for every job the businesses I work with close.

Today I work with almost 10 different trades of home service businesses and over 50 businesses.
And working by commission was the only reason I was able to scale that fast.

Working with a service business that knows how to sell will put you light years ahead.
The minimum ROAS I get on my ads IS 4.0, while selling my leads would leave me with a tiny margin.

In under 2 years my company is well known in the industry.
And over the last few months I have tested an idea I had -

Letting other advertisers access to my connections and tools for a fraction of the commission .
Giving them the opportunity to work with the top service businesses in the US and have an actual "equity" in their business.

You see.. When you aim good, you don't need to shoot a thousand bullets.
And when you find a good business model that others don't have the access to, you don't need to invest 1000's of hours trying to scale.

Well I am done for now.

If you have any questions regarding what I do or regarding partnering up I'll be glad to answer.
If you are looking to start in the lead generation industry but have no idea where to start, I'll point you in the right direction.

For absolutely free by the way, I have nothing to sell you guys.

nice input mate. I may add a few later base on my experience.

Can't understand - is it real post or self-promotional?.. but not bad

EpicTasking said:

nice input mate. I may add a few later base on my experience.

Click to expand...

Sounds good. would love to hear

maxmayer said:

Can't understand - is it real post or self-promotional?.. but not bad

Click to expand...

A bit of both Max, new to the forum and sharing what I do.

Bare in mind if you take a percentage on sales then you need to be able to trust the company. There are many liars in the world and there is no way to know for certain.

So your business is know a agency.

You get the leads but sell for commission of the job price

Looks like a fair deal I suspect you get to no the going rates of the niche you target.

Well done anyway at least it working .

Houngan said:

Bare in mind if you take a percentage on sales then you need to be able to trust the company. There are many liars in the world and there is no way to know for certain.

Click to expand...

Of course. We personally know everyone we work with and they all have been vetted.

localbizwiz said:

You will probably not understand this post if you never generated leads.
Which is why you should read it.

Less tactics, more thinking and how-tos.
But I promise you that if you get this, you'll be able to apply it to any business.

When you are starting a business,
There's one word with a big weight that will determine your success...

Scaleability - Your ability to scale.

But I look at scaleability from a different lens, not how much I can scale.
But how easy is it going to be for me to scale.

For example, my acquaintance has a Locksmith business, he has over 20 technicians(!!).
And no matter what he does, he can't cross the 30k/month benchmark.

Me on the other hand? I provide him the leads for a hefty commission of 40-50%.
So who has a better business structure?
Hell yeah.

But not all roads leads to Rome.

There are plenty of guys doing Rank And Rent / SEO / Ads for local businesses.
All working on a valid business model. But a model which is hard to SCALE

Click to expand...

I do R &R and come to realise this business model has a glass ceiling (unless you keep building and ranking sites).

Your business model sounds great.....if you can trust the people you work with. Honesty plays a huge role to both of your success.

I tried this a few years back and got burned. That's why I switched to selling leads.

localbizwiz said:

They are investing hundreds of hours and capital to a business model that has a glass ceiling.

Click to expand...

Yup.

localbizwiz said:

Where the only way they got to scale is by taking more work. more locations. more business owners to work for.
And no doubt, if you put in years of hard work you will scale.

Click to expand...

Yes you can scale.....slowly. And you have to keep tabs on multiple websites rather than a few.

localbizwiz said:

But remember, it's not about how much you can scale.
It's about how EASY it's going to be for you to scale.

Click to expand...

Scaleability with R & R is a problem. Your starting off with a limited sized audience.

localbizwiz said:

The math is simple - A tree removal lead is being sold for 100-150$
A tree removal job is 1000-2000 per tree, average job range around 3k$

Would you rather sell 10 leads to a contractor or get 25% on the jobs that were closed?

What if instead of working FOR the business, you can work WITH the business...
How do you that?
Simple, the same way I do it, taking 10-50% commission for every job the businesses I work with close.

Click to expand...

Nice (if everyone's honest).

localbizwiz said:

Today I work with almost 10 different trades of home service businesses and over 50 businesses.
And working by commission was the only reason I was able to scale that fast.

Working with a service business that knows how to sell will put you light years ahead.
The minimum ROAS I get on my ads IS 4.0, while selling my leads would leave me with a tiny margin.

In under 2 years my company is well known in the industry.
And over the last few months I have tested an idea I had -

Letting other advertisers access to my connections and tools for a fraction of the commission .
Giving them the opportunity to work with the top service businesses in the US and have an actual "equity" in their business.

You see.. When you aim good, you don't need to shoot a thousand bullets.

Click to expand...

Wise words......

localbizwiz said:

And when you find a good business model that others don't have the access to, you don't need to invest 1000's of hours trying to scale.

Well I am done for now.

If you have any questions regarding what I do or regarding partnering up I'll be glad to answer.
If you are looking to start in the lead generation industry but have no idea where to start, I'll point you in the right direction.

For absolutely free by the way, I have nothing to sell you guys.

Click to expand...

Some really good info here, thanks for sharing.

hey can you pm me i need more info. thanks.

Go good with your business model.
You are investing money in this model or not?
If the success is with your idea investment, that sounds great. !
Good luck!!

I've done rev share since 2006 and here's my advice:

I've been doing this online thing full-time since 2005 and have found that if you're good enough then fuck having, CLIENTS, SMALL partners, or SMALL lead buyers.

I always start in an industry with partners, knowing I'll eventually start my own business or sell my site to a more prominent firm.

• Did mortgage rev share = I got fucked out of about 30 leads (wasn't licensed, so had no recourse). I ended up switching to selling per lead, which worked MUCH better. But, looking back at it... I would have made 10x if I just set up a mortgage net branch instead.
• Did misc. personal finance products, as a partner--we had over 100 people on the floor working our leads, which came from TV, Radio, and media buys.
• Did insurance rev share = I got fucked so hard over about a mil USD in rev share that I ended up getting my own licenses and setting up a brokerage.
  
  
• Did casino rev share = Sold the website to my biggest advertiser. Made enough in BTC on that exit to literally expatriate from the USA, and travel the world in style for years before getting back to work (not in America of course).

My biggest advice to everybody looking to do this: Don't deal with mom-and-pop shops. Their operations are trash, their mentalities are trash, and their budgets are too small for you to scale when you REALLY take off. Even selling leads to them on a CPL basis becomes a pain in the ass because they'll come back to you with some nonsense about why the lead wasn't filtered properly or something.

Stick to partners bigger than you. Can you get screwed by bigger buyers? Of course, but at least they can handle your scale and they'll be around for years. I once sent a small partner 30 organic search leads in a week for him to tell me that he couldn't get ahold of them (and I mean a shop with 20 people). Best case he was incompetent and in the worst case he was a thief. Mom-and-pop shops are small because they're new or shit, don't deal w/ them.

A buddy of mine went the other route, he used his agency to get proficient at learning new markets using client money, then he just bought out the clients and then scaled from there. I can't say anymore or it'll be pretty obvious who he is, to anybody who's really in the scene, but I can say he has over 20 brands and several offices now.

Having been in this space for nearly twenty years I can tell you the only ones who survived as long as me were the ones who:

A. Went from publisher > to advertiser or from publisher > to network/advertiser
B. Those who were white hats. EVERY blackhat is gone... and most of them never developed the business sense to be consistent. They never had the patience to even bother learning how to do things like recruit, manage, or develop operations.

In your example, you're talking about dealing w/ tree installers. That sounds like the 10th rung of Hell to me.

I'd rather sell the same lead 3 times to three different guys, then sell it to a similar service provider three times, then sell the lead as aged data.

A $20 lead (or whatever it is) would then end up being worth 6x and you don't have to chase around some guy to see if a lead REALLY closed.

You use a service that allows you to authorize their card upfront and just charge them when you deliver the lead.

If their card fails or if they complain, just cut them off and move on ASAP.

Also, if you were this good at your job you wouldn't be selling a course on it... Just saying.

malayan said:

I've done rev share since 2006 and here's my advice:

I've been doing this online thing full-time since 2005 and have found that if you're good enough then fuck having, CLIENTS, SMALL partners, or SMALL lead buyers.

I always start in an industry with partners, knowing I'll eventually start my own business or sell my site to a more prominent firm.

• Did mortgage rev share = I got fucked out of about 30 leads (wasn't licensed, so had no recourse). I ended up switching to selling per lead, which worked MUCH better. But, looking back at it... I would have made 10x if I just set up a mortgage net branch instead.

Click to expand...

This is the issue isnt it......why are we making other people rich LOL ?

It's stupid really isnt it.

It's a good way of learning the ropes of lead gen, but once you can do it, you start to question why your giving all of your business away to someone else.

malayan said:

• Did misc. personal finance products, as a partner--we had over 100 people on the floor working our leads, which came from TV, Radio, and media buys.
• Did insurance rev share = I got fucked so hard over about a mil USD in rev share that I ended up getting my own licenses and setting up a brokerage.
  
  
• Did casino rev share = Sold the website to my biggest advertiser. Made enough in BTC on that exit to literally expatriate from the USA, and travel the world in style for years before getting back to work (not in America of course).

My biggest advice to everybody looking to do this: Don't deal with mom-and-pop shops. Their operations are trash, their mentalities are trash, and their budgets are too small for you to scale when you REALLY take off. Even selling leads to them on a CPL basis becomes a pain in the ass because they'll come back to you with some nonsense about why the lead wasn't filtered properly or something.

Click to expand...

Only work with people who can scale with you, otherwise they'll be drowned in leads and can't service the work.

Been there and done that.

malayan said:

Stick to partners bigger than you. Can you get screwed by bigger buyers? Of course, but at least they can handle your scale and they'll be around for years. I once sent a small partner 30 organic search leads in a week for him to tell me that he couldn't get ahold of them (and I mean a shop with 20 people). Best case he was incompetent and in the worst case he was a thief. Mom-and-pop shops are small because they're new or shit, don't deal w/ them.

A buddy of mine went the other route, he used his agency to get proficient at learning new markets using client money, then he just bought out the clients and then scaled from there. I can't say anymore or it'll be pretty obvious who he is, to anybody who's really in the scene, but I can say he has over 20 brands and several offices now.

Having been in this space for nearly twenty years I can tell you the only ones who survived as long as me were the ones who:

A. Went from publisher > to advertiser or from publisher > to network/advertiser
B. Those who were white hats. EVERY blackhat is gone... and most of them never developed the business sense to be consistent. They never had the patience to even bother learning how to do things like recruit, manage, or develop operations.

Click to expand...

This sounds interesting.......

malayan said:

In your example, you're talking about dealing w/ tree installers. That sounds like the 10th rung of Hell to me.

I'd rather sell the same lead 3 times to three different guys, then sell it to a similar service provider three times, then sell the lead as aged data.

A $20 lead (or whatever it is) would then end up being worth 6x and you don't have to chase around some guy to see if a lead REALLY closed.

You use a service that allows you to authorize their card upfront and just charge them when you deliver the lead.

If their card fails or if they complain, just cut them off and move on ASAP.

Also, if you were this good at your job you wouldn't be selling a course on it... Just saying.

Click to expand...

randomname2 said:

hey can you pm me i need more info. thanks.

Click to expand...

No

malayan said:

I've done rev share since 2006 and here's my advice:

I've been doing this online thing full-time since 2005 and have found that if you're good enough then fuck having, CLIENTS, SMALL partners, or SMALL lead buyers.

I always start in an industry with partners, knowing I'll eventually start my own business or sell my site to a more prominent firm.

• Did mortgage rev share = I got fucked out of about 30 leads (wasn't licensed, so had no recourse). I ended up switching to selling per lead, which worked MUCH better. But, looking back at it... I would have made 10x if I just set up a mortgage net branch instead.
• Did misc. personal finance products, as a partner--we had over 100 people on the floor working our leads, which came from TV, Radio, and media buys.
• Did insurance rev share = I got fucked so hard over about a mil USD in rev share that I ended up getting my own licenses and setting up a brokerage.
  
  
• Did casino rev share = Sold the website to my biggest advertiser. Made enough in BTC on that exit to literally expatriate from the USA, and travel the world in style for years before getting back to work (not in America of course).

My biggest advice to everybody looking to do this: Don't deal with mom-and-pop shops. Their operations are trash, their mentalities are trash, and their budgets are too small for you to scale when you REALLY take off. Even selling leads to them on a CPL basis becomes a pain in the ass because they'll come back to you with some nonsense about why the lead wasn't filtered properly or something.

Stick to partners bigger than you. Can you get screwed by bigger buyers? Of course, but at least they can handle your scale and they'll be around for years. I once sent a small partner 30 organic search leads in a week for him to tell me that he couldn't get ahold of them (and I mean a shop with 20 people). Best case he was incompetent and in the worst case he was a thief. Mom-and-pop shops are small because they're new or shit, don't deal w/ them.

A buddy of mine went the other route, he used his agency to get proficient at learning new markets using client money, then he just bought out the clients and then scaled from there. I can't say anymore or it'll be pretty obvious who he is, to anybody who's really in the scene, but I can say he has over 20 brands and several offices now.

Having been in this space for nearly twenty years I can tell you the only ones who survived as long as me were the ones who:

A. Went from publisher > to advertiser or from publisher > to network/advertiser
B. Those who were white hats. EVERY blackhat is gone... and most of them never developed the business sense to be consistent. They never had the patience to even bother learning how to do things like recruit, manage, or develop operations.

In your example, you're talking about dealing w/ tree installers. That sounds like the 10th rung of Hell to me.

I'd rather sell the same lead 3 times to three different guys, then sell it to a similar service provider three times, then sell the lead as aged data.

A $20 lead (or whatever it is) would then end up being worth 6x and you don't have to chase around some guy to see if a lead REALLY closed.

You use a service that allows you to authorize their card upfront and just charge them when you deliver the lead.

If their card fails or if they complain, just cut them off and move on ASAP.

Also, if you were this good at your job you wouldn't be selling a course on it... Just saying.

Click to expand...

I agree with lots of what you say over here, dealing with mom and pop shops is a waste of time, I don't do that.
That can be a headache to deal with a tree installer if it's some 50 years old douche acting like he is doing you a favour that he is taking your jobs.

But we run differently, all the people I work with are salesman's, none of them are actually cutting the tree, we pass the jobs > they close it > they get a sub contractor to do the job > we split the profit

And the best part? I know almost all of the owners personally. No fuckery.
If you took a glance at my operation you'd be impressed. I guarantee.

And I don't sell any course, I am simply a ex. publisher turned to a network, looking for more publishers to join the front line
And like you said, might as well work with a bigger buyer, I am one.

homeriscool said:

I do R &R and come to realise this business model has a glass ceiling (unless you keep building and ranking sites).

Your business model sounds great.....if you can trust the people you work with. Honesty plays a huge role to both of your success.

I tried this a few years back and got burned. That's why I switched to selling leads.




Yup.



Yes you can scale.....slowly. And you have to keep tabs on multiple websites rather than a few.



Scaleability with R & R is a problem. Your starting off with a limited sized audience.


Nice (if everyone's honest).




Wise words......




Some really good info here, thanks for sharing.

Click to expand...

Appreciate the time taken to read and reply.

Sad to see new people getting into R&R without properly thinking ahead.

And to your point - there is a few reasons why they won't/can't fuck with me.
I won't specify them but we wouldn't work on rev share without actually thinking this through.

localbizwiz said:

Appreciate the time taken to read and reply.

Sad to see new people getting into R&R without properly thinking ahead.

And to your point - there is a few reasons why they won't/can't fuck with me.
I won't specify them but we wouldn't work on rev share without actually thinking this through.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure if I sat down and really put some thought into creating a system that wouldn't allow the people I'm working with screw me over, it *could* work.

So you manage the customers? How would you know the deal was closed? Follow up?

Yeah they can close the deal and lie.

Houngan said:

Bare in mind if you take a percentage on sales then you need to be able to trust the company. There are many liars in the world and there is no way to know for certain.

Click to expand...

Yeahhh, how do you verify them and how do you measure these commissions? I find that companies lie about how many sales they got. (I do ads & seo for retainer.)

SilverClouds said:

Yeahhh, how do you verify them and how do you measure these commissions? I find that companies lie about how many sales they got. (I do ads & seo for retainer.)

Click to expand...

Deleted member 1247054 said:

Yeah they can close the deal and lie.

Click to expand...

Yeah if you will try to work with someone you don't know that might happen.

Our teams have been working with us for years, and regardless of that, all updates are sent automatically to the job source, meaning that the dispatching is being done automatically and not manually, so no one can edit numbers.
Moreover, we use call masking so there is no real numbers of the customers, and I have a VA that all he does is listening to calls. And a few more tricks.

If you are afraid to work with people that this is 100% of what they do (us), and you think that we haven't thought about everything you say a 1000 times, than maybe it's better for you to stay on retainers

SilverClouds said:

Yeahhh, how do you verify them and how do you measure these commissions? I find that companies lie about how many sales they got. (I do ads & seo for retainer.)

Click to expand...

You don't. Just charge a flat fee, or base it off their traffic stats on clicks etc.

localbizwiz said:

Yeah if you will try to work with someone you don't know that might happen.

Our teams have been working with us for years, and regardless of that, all updates are sent automatically to the job source, meaning that the dispatching is being done automatically and not manually, so no one can edit numbers.
Moreover, we use call masking so there is no real numbers of the customers, and I have a VA that all he does is listening to calls. And a few more tricks.

If you are afraid to work with people that this is 100% of what they do (us), and you think that we haven't thought about everything you say a 1000 times, than maybe it's better for you to stay on retainers

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're getting at in this thread... There are already pay per call affiliate networks out there, I'm sure they check their clients (I hope) before letting affiliates promote them. If you want to start a new aff network buy a paid thread here or pay for offervault listing. I personally wouldn't do commmission only directly with clients in my agency, I take retainers and eventually one of them suggested retainer + commission bonus to motivate me. I have 0 problem with doing commission only with established affiliate network, at least I can check and ask around if they're paying out or not, etc. When dealing with clients directly I have harder time to check their reputation... Especially if it's a company that someone started year ago, during covid *shrugs*.