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Future Of Bitcoin = Shut Down? *UPDATED*

Discussion in 'CryptoCurrency' started by MOTIVE2015, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. MOTIVE2015

    MOTIVE2015 Registered Member

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    I created a thread regarding Future of Bitcoin and why it is more likely to fall. You can find my old thread here: Future Of Bitcoin = Shut Down?

    This is an updated version fo that thread.

    Read all the updated text below:

    What advantage does Bitcoin have? (From one of the official videos)
    Bullshit #1) Bitcoins are transferred directly from person to person via the net without going through a bank or clearinghouse.

    Reality: But Bitcoins have to get confirmed to get even accepted, no one accepts your transaction without getting it confirmed. So, You DO have to depend on someone (miners), and miners here are NOT average people, they are big companies that have invested a good amount of money in purchasing best type of hardware. So, Indirectly they are the Banks of Bitcoin, without there will you can't exchange Bitcoins.

    Bullshit #2) "This means that the fees are much lower"


    Let's try to send $10 using Bitcoin network.

    Amount: $10
    Fee to be paid: $0.14 USD

    How is $0.14 fee cheap? You can literally send it for much lower fee through other ways of payment.

    Note: This fee is suggested by the Blockchain network. It means it should get confirmed in 1+ hour. The payment should get confirmed quickly for an average person, average people can't wait days to get confirmed. So, Paying using $0 fee is plain stupid.

    Bullshit #3) "Your account can not be frozen"

    But you can lose access to it forever if you forget your private keys by mistake. Humans do stupid things all the time, you can't expect to save your hardware and private keys for 10+ years.
    If you lose access to your account, you will lose your funds forever UNLIKE Banks, which can help you recover your funds and prevent any hacker from stealing your funds.

    AND if your Bitcoin wallet company is seized by the government or destroyed by hackers, you lost your funds forever because you trusted them too much.

    Offline backup, huh? So, Are your ready to download 150+ GB of all Bitcoin data that will keep increasing on an hourly basis? Good luck with that.


    Problem) "Can't get your funds back"
    If you order some merch online or some services and pay using Bitcoin. There is no way to ask for a refund and get your money back if the person is a scammer or refuses to deliver you. If you use some other online payment processing company, They can help you get your funds back but not with Bitcoin.
    So, Will it ever become as a standard way of making payments without getting scammed?

    And don't forget the BEST PART!

    "Your transaction is verified by a miner"

    So, You depend on an unknown miner for your transition to approve. Miners are no longer *average* people doing mining, they are highly invested project doing mining which is owned by big companies.
    It is up to the miner to choose to include your transaction or not. If they want, they can exclude your transaction and you won't ever get approved.
    What about *other* miners if one does not accept your transaction? The Bitcoin next block is for that miner who got the best computing power, here Quantum Computers makes everything complicated.

    What are quantum computers?


    ONLY a big company can own quantum computers and they got unimaginable computing power. Hardly a few Quantum computers are required to out-compute majority of the Bitcoin network. So, Be ready to *trust* *depend* a random Organisation that they will approve your transaction OR not use Bitcoin network way they desire.

    So, Instead of Banks, you are trusting random miners. There is still LOT OF TRUST involved in Bitcoin. In both ways of exchaning money, trust is required, Bitcoin is no different.

    Don't forget 51% attack of Bitcoin network = Years of trust in Bitcoin lost. One time 51% attack is enough to mess the whole system up.

    What about security?
    (See 5:40 of the video above)

    More problems with Bitcoin (from my last thread)

    1) Bitcoin is anonymous and this is one of the biggest disadvantages. A couple of years ago FBI shut down one of the biggest payment processing company: LiberityReserve for the exact same reason, being able to receive payments and send payments anonymously. Bitcoin is same.
    If Government finds that more and more fraud related payments are being made through Bitcoin (Like WannaCry Virus) , the government will sooner or later step in and change the game, I don't think any government in the world will let bitcoin get away with these kinds of payments.

    2) Bitcoin is highly unstable. Its prices fluctuates a lot of daily bases. Can we really trust something as safe investment and way of making payments if it's price is highly unstable?

    3) Not owned by the government. Controlling money and using it for the benefit of the nation is what the government does If the government does not have full control over the money supply of the nation. Will a government even think something like that to run?

    4) You can get away without paying taxes because Bitcoin can't be tracked by whom it is owned and no proper tax can be taken from it. The nation only runs on taxes, if something tries to create a problem in the tax system, the government immediately shuts it down.


    Government and Future Actions:

    1) A few months ago the government of India officially announced that they are heading towards electronic payments and created their own official electronic system for making payments through smartphones. Maybe every country in future decides to do this if they want payments to be made without cash.

    2) Companies like Mastercard and various banks will create their own methods for making transfer of money easy for normal people.



    What if future is crypto?

    If it is then: Big banks and government will create their own Bitcoin like coin that is backed by the Government and far better than today's Bitcoin.
    The United Kingdom will use: Brit Coin
    The United States will use: Dollar Coin etc.

    But I don't think any coin that is now not fully control under the government will even ever become a safe, stable and sure way to transfer money.


    Why is Bitcoin rising?

    Because every other person that hears about Bitcoin thinks that it will double their investment in no time, they feel like Bill Gates and feel like this is the future. They announce that they will be becoming richer than Wallet Buffet and will be buying 5 private islands the second Bitcoin sets new records.
    They put all of their trust in Bitcoin and invest all they can at once.
    Bitcoin is more like an investment for most people than a normal way of transferring money. (Which it actually is)


    How to make Bitcoin fall its value below $100 in a month?

    1) Close all Bitcoin -> USD exchange (close all those official websites like coinbase etc)
    2)Wait for *all-knowing investors of future coin* to panic.
    3) No way for them to exchange their *investment* to USD, they start to sell Bitcoins to other people for real cheap. Because people see Bitcoin as an investment, not a way of transferring money.
    4) Profit?????

    Please share your thoughts regarding points made in this thread and your thoughts. They will be appreciated.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  2. W9go

    W9go Elite Member

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    it can be fast over again as well ..... it would not the first bubble bursting
     
  3. ZennoScripts

    ZennoScripts Regular Member

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    "Why is Bitcoin rising? "

    That paragraph alone makes me run from using or trusting bitcoin.

    From my own experiences with bitcoin and my mom talking about it have been quite scary. I was sitting around talking to my mom and she randomly told me about some "white kid becomes rich instantly from $1,000 investment in bitcoins 4 years ago" story. She asked me in a peculiar manner if I had invested in bitcoin and was trying to see if I was lying to her about it/not telling her about my money.

    Bitcoins can do some weird things to people.
     
  4. AlumniAce

    AlumniAce BANNED BANNED

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    I sent 2500 euro worth of BTC for a fee of 1 dollar and if you lose your your keys or password it is your own fault... all wallets give you multiple warnings to print that stuff and keep it safe. Bitcoin is not anonymous, every transaction on the blockchain is public and can be viewed by everyone, this is why there are newer coins which specifically focus on anonymity... and yeah the prices fluctuate a lot... more risk=more chance of higher return...
    Fyi bitcoin is an asset and you have to pay taxes on asset gains in every western country, in belgium that is 30% which means a lot of tax money for the country... when you suddenly put 100k euros in your bank account, the government will come knocking on your door. Crypto is backed by many countries, japan and korea back it, even china supports crypto... the creator of ethereum had a talk with putin and putin officially supports ethereum. You're just a butthurt person who is scared to take a risk and doesn't like seeing others make some money, cut the BS
     
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  5. MOTIVE2015

    MOTIVE2015 Registered Member

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    I am not a butthurt person, I am just saying what is and what is not, because I have seen people go crazy on how they make thousands of dollars profit within few months and see Bitcoin as a flawless, magical, God created a coin that will last until the end of the universe and will hit $100,000/per coin within next decade.

    Why is that I have to take a risk to transfer money? I don't have to worry about losing access to my funds, getting my funds stolen or nation accepted currency lose 50% of its value in a matter of months. I am transferring money, why I should be always worried about losing them or seeing their value drop? My Bank is way better on those matter + my transcation are mostly instant.

    So, No person can use Bitcoin as a way of transferring money and should only see it as an investment? The value of Bitcoin comes from "transfer" of money and as more people accept it, it's valued rises. Without people accepting it, Bitcoin will lose all it's value. Even if you bunch of people invest thousands of dollars in purchasing many Bitcoins, if people won't accept it. Your investment will not be worth more than a dollar someday.

    Why won't I like other people making money? How does it even affect me?

    If you really trust Bitcoin that much, then invest ALL you have in Bitcoin. Make money off it and become a millionaire?

    Stop getting triggered over a discussion thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  6. 3rykkcirtap98

    3rykkcirtap98 Newbie

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    I don't think it will fault cause it becomes a hot trend now
     
  7. AlumniAce

    AlumniAce BANNED BANNED

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    1. Some people say it will be worth 100k, some say it will be worth 0, it is all speculation... do you think you could get a 1000x return if there was 0 risk? Lol, if you don't want risk go put your money in a bank and watch how much you will earn after 1 year. 2. You can't lose money during a transaction... you will only lose it if you send to a wallet address that doesn't exist, and their value can drop cause it's a risky investment, it's not fucking money backed by a central bank. 3. The value of bitcoin comes from SUPPLY AND DEMAND, the exchanges put this value on bitcoin... there is no central body which decides its value, why the hell do you talk about it if you don't even know where the value comes from lol. If you don't know jackshit about a topic, don't talk about it and scare people. 4. I won't invest in bitcoin because it is already at a 42 billion dollar market cap, I have invested a few thousand in other cryptos, specifically litecoin (2,5 billion market cap), antshares (350 million market cap), siacoin (300 million market cap) and veritaseum (350 million market cap)... I believe in the project of these cryptos and expect higher returns than bitcoin.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  8. MOTIVE2015

    MOTIVE2015 Registered Member

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    There is only demand for Bitcoin because people accept it, if people won't accept it then why the hell will a person exchange USD -> BTC?
    If you refuse to accept USD in the USA, You can be put in jail but if you refuse to accept BTC, no one can do anything about it.

    Most sellers in the end transfer BTC -> USD, so at last USD(currency controlled by the government) is required one way or another because it is backed up by the government.
     
  9. ewandy

    ewandy Junior Member

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    @MOTIVE2015
    If you really think btc is worth nothing (or close to nothing), why are you wasting time creating these threads?
    It's like when you are trying to convince someone that he is stupid, when you know 100% he is stupid => you are just wasting your time.

    Come on it's clear you are trying to scare people to buy bitcoin and it's very probably because you are butthurt that others made a lot of money and you didn't.
    Also you are trying too hard to bring the btc value down, but only "sheeps" will believe this nonsense.
    If you really think btc is no good, just move on, don't waste your time trying to convince others.

    And yes I made money because of btc and btc didn't reach the phase to become mainstream yet and be used by the average joe's.
     
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  10. MOTIVE2015

    MOTIVE2015 Registered Member

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    Why will I be butthurt if people made money off Bitcoin? Good for them that they were able to make their lives better and I am happy that Internet helped them in someway to help them make money.

    The point of this thread is not about saying other that invested in BTC are stupid or anything. This is just a discussion thread that just shows some problems with Bitcoin and makes sure that every person that thinks of trying BTC should know everything about it before continuing.

    I myself use Bitcoin to receive all my online payments and there is still a good possibility of it rising, I am not an anti-bitcoin person or anything. I just created this thread to make sure people know what Bitcoin actually is and is not that *magical* coin they think it is. Most people think it is a flawless coin and this thread is to show them that it isn't.
     
  11. AlumniAce

    AlumniAce BANNED BANNED

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    there is demand for bitcoin because it is the largest crypto and one of the first, it is widely accepted in multiple countries and even has ATMs in dozens of countries, it is supported by most countries and will soon be supported by even more... + it is the main coin to trade for other cryptos on exchanges. Why buy BTC? To hold? To trade? To spend? The opportunities are endless. Fyi bitcoin used to be illegal in the US but now it is widely accepted... this is my last reply to you, I have better stuff to do than trying to put some sense into a wall. You know jackshit about bitcoin and crypto in general, keep envying risk takers and cry about your secure money
     
  12. Lutherblissett

    Lutherblissett Power Member

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    Bitcoin currently is a poor unit of currency as of now due to its inability to hold 'stable' value. Its a security, just like Tesla or some penny stock, its highly volatile and good luck (honestly not joking) to those who chose to buy, barter, mine, or steal them. I'll use fiat currency at this point and earn cash the old fashion way of having my monkey toss darts at a wall of random stocks and dumping some cash in there.
     
  13. Nut-Nights

    Nut-Nights Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  14. Iamthe1

    Iamthe1 BANNED BANNED

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    I think bitcoins have a good future
     
  15. bmanfacts

    bmanfacts Junior Member

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    No disrespect but this honestly reads of a FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) post. I see what you are doing genuinely.

    However, this reads (to me) like the following:

    Here's why you won't get rich/ you are wasting your time with bitcoin.

    It's not all you people THINK it is. In fact here's why it's not even that valuable/will likely fall....

    (Explains reasons)

    Conclusion: It is so easy for the coin to crash and you've wasted your money. Don't depend on this. You can trust other means to get where you want.

    .... (later on in the discussion)

    Oh but I use them. I just want to inform people about the downsides of using them.

    If you really intended to inform about the downsides of the coin then I think the title and purpose should reflect that. But that's a personal preference and my two cents.

    You bring up valid points but the whole trust factor (which most of your points rely on) is funny if we're supposed to trust someone saying this on a forum where people get scammed everyday.

    If you didn't know any of those things before investing or playing around with cryptos then you probably shouldn't play the game.
     
  16. jeffro89

    jeffro89 Junior Member

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    Yeh, nothing informative or helpul has been said regarding Bitcoin apart from dont do it your gna loose all your money. Waste of a read, got better stuff to be doin.
     
  17. BuzzBuzzSale

    BuzzBuzzSale Registered Member

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    All very good arguments... BTC will be what IBM was to the computer, move along nothing to see here
     
  18. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    BTC transactions are verified by a miner? I thought it was verified by everyone in the network?
     
  19. oseart

    oseart Registered Member

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    • You fail to realize there are different protocols besides POW (Proof of Wook)


    • You say that there are different ways of transferring money, yet give no alternative. There isn't one.


    • Loosing your account, and having your account be frozen are two completely different things. Having your private key will eliminate every problem you just mentioned. You dont need to download the entire block chain to have your offline wallet.
    • This is actually the only thing I actually liked about this post, this is a real problem. However, using a escrow service could solve this problem, I.E. Didnt get the things you ordered? The seller doesn't get the money.

    • This is the stupidest thing I saw in this post. Yes, miners can "chose" to not accept your transaction, HOWEVER if one does not accept the transaction, it it moved down to another miner to have it verified. AKA why block chain is a thing. It isn't just thrown away never to be seen again.
    • Quantum computers in the network are a problem, yes. However, you're repeating yourself. What about the trust between miners and users is making it so you need to repeat it in every problem you have with Bitcoin?

    • You are aware that before Bitcoin, ransomware would ask for USD... Your idea of the government just going "No. Stop" and everything Bitcoin being stopped is wrong. Thats EXACTLY why there are nodes.
    • Investments are inherently risky.
    • Not even sure what you are trying to say here... Are you saying that using Bitcoin is wrong because you are not helping the nation? Would need further text to write an actual reason why this is wrong.
    • When you get your paycheck from work, do you get taxes taken out automatically, or do you have to go back to your work and give them the money for taxes..... Exactly.

    • Coins require people. No one is obligated to use one coin over the other....

    • This goes back to what you said earlier about people losing access to their coins... By your logic their coins would be gone forever, so (using your logic) this wouldn't be a problem. This would remove a bunch of bitcoins from exchanges, actually INCREASING the value of bitcoins. However, using real logic if someones exchange failed, but they have their private key for their wallet, they could just use a different wallet and have their coins..... and continue to still use them as normal.....

    Feel free to reply to this,


    Oseart
     
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  20. oseart

    oseart Registered Member

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    The miner is responsible for finding a block, the block contains every transaction in that set, if the block is found it is moved up in the block chain. The network has the responsibility of checking that what the miner did was correct, if it isnt the block is then orphaned, and the process is then continued.
     
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