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Failing at keyword research

Discussion in 'White Hat SEO' started by Xellon, Dec 7, 2011.

  1. Xellon

    Xellon Regular Member

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    I'm obviously missing something here. I use the google keyword research tool and I normally grab "low" competition keywords for my niche. But it seems to be very difficulty to rank high for some of them which is what I'm not understanding.....

    For 1 low competition keyword, anything I post on my blog I end up on page 1. But for other low competition keywords, I'm on like page...60 and am having a hard time climbing up.

    What am I missing? Obviously just because it says low doesn't necessary mean anything.
     
  2. minimo88

    minimo88 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Did you check the SEO competition for some of the keywords?
     
  3. GimmeMoney

    GimmeMoney Regular Member

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    What do you mean by this? Are you looking at the competition column in the adwords keyword tool? That's not how you gauge SEO competition. That column is for the PPC ads that appear next to the organic search results.
     
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  4. Dj Co2

    Dj Co2 Elite Member

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    True that.. To check the SEO competition use market samurai.. If the competition is something that you can handle then go for it otherwise find a new one :)
     
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  5. bumba1988

    bumba1988 Junior Member

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    I guess you should gauge the top 10 page competition before actually deciding on the keyword of your choice.
     
  6. jacobb

    jacobb Newbie

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    You need to check how many websites there are for that keyword and then check how many backlinks they have, if they have the keyword in the domain name and meta/H1 tags. Then check the keyword density for the webpage.

    Market Samurai does a lot of this with one click.
     
  7. zmoney

    zmoney Senior Member

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    There could be 10 competing sites all together, but if they are all 16+ year old domains with PR7 lol you aint gettin nothing.

    Also, by filtering out and getting only "low competition", you are missing the golden keywords that have high comp, but poorly optimized websites in that competition...

    Also, if you go for a high comp keyword and rank 40th, your still prob gonna get more hits than ranking 20th for a keyword that only gets searched for 300 times a month ;)

    It's all about analyzing your competition.... A lot of emphisis is on keyword selection etc because well.... they are trying to promote their "keyword tool of the year".....

    BTW, "having a hard time climbing up"? How are you trying to climb? Where are you getting your links from? How many links do the competitors have?

    Find out the quality and quantity of your competitors pages for that keyword. Get more and better ones and your good to go. This can take MONTHS. Don't be expecting to put a 850 word list into MS and sort by keywords getting less than 30k exact matches and slapping up something and doing some social bookmarking. And get down because the keyword isn't ranking in 1 week.

    Just doesn't happen that way.

    BTW, how old is the domain? Anything under 8 months to a year - well, you are def kinda screwed a bit...

    Its all about links. You could throw up 2 sentences and get that to rank. Its ALL ABOUT LINKS. LINKS LINKS LINKS...

    JMO

    ~Rob.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  8. Xellon

    Xellon Regular Member

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    I see. Thanks for the tips. :)

    Is there some way to get a discount on market samurai?
     
  9. Dj Co2

    Dj Co2 Elite Member

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    Get a trial copy
    Code:
    marketsamurai.com/thirtydc
    when it expires make a new email address and get another trial copy ;)
     
  10. zmoney

    zmoney Senior Member

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    So, these pages that aren't "ranking".. How many backlinks did you give them? How old is the domain? How long has the page been indexed?

    You've got to answer these, before you tailor your keyword selection methods. Because there's a strong chance you will be looking for keywords where you can rank right out of the box, and then completely screwing yourself on profitable keywords.

    ~Rob.
     
  11. Xellon

    Xellon Regular Member

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    I've been using senuke which is more blackhat related but I'd appreciate any white hat methods. and scrapebox mostly. Mostly built social networking, web 2.0 profiles and forum profiles. However, I've been really lazy for a couple weeks and did nothing for a while since nothing is going how I planned.

    My domain is about 1-2 years old.

    edit - number of backlinks.... probably more then 500 a day then I stopped for a while.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  12. Dj Co2

    Dj Co2 Elite Member

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    Well take a break if you're slacking.. And during that break put together a good plan for the upcoming weeks and work on that.. I'm sure you'd earn something.. Just don't deviate from the plan because then that'd make you lazy.. It's something I've experienced myself :)
     
  13. ynl321

    ynl321 Newbie

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    Keyword research my friend..
     
  14. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    OP - GimmeMoney points out a pretty important thing to you need to learn.

    The google keyword tool is designed for adwords advertisers. The tool itself is great for anyone doing keyword research, but the competition analyzer is based on competition for adwords. So a high comp keyword according to the competition analyzer lets you know how much PPC competition there is, and even indicates how profitable it might be, but doesn't tell you how much SEO competition there is.

    To check competition for SEO you need to do a google search for the term to find out the total number of results returned. That's an indication of how many websites are competing for that term in the SERPs. Now that just lets you know the total number of sites, not how strongly they're competing. So the next thing you need to do is look at the sites on the SERP first page. How much effort those top 10 sites have put into ranking for the keyword is the key factor in how hard it will be to get your own site on the first page.

    So, when using the Google Adwords Keyword Tool follow these steps...
    1. Use the keyword tool to determine search volume for a term.
    2. Use the search box to determine how many competing sites there are for that term.
    3. Then check out the top 10 sites to determine how hard they are working for that term.

    It's possible for you to find in step 2 a very high amount of sites competing for a keyword, but none of them are actively targeting that keyword at all. So total number of competing sites is only important if in step 3 you find the top sites have done a lot of work to rank for that term.

    Step 1 and step 3 are the key factors to look at. Ideally you want to find relevant terms that in step 1 have a high search volume, and in step 3 have a low competition effort.

    (3rd party keyword research tools like Market Samurai, Keyword Scout, etc., are designed to do much of that search volume and SEO competition analysis for you.)

    Hope that helps. :cool2:
     
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  15. zmoney

    zmoney Senior Member

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    I know this is about keyword research, but I want more details.

    So you pick the keyword:

    Blue Mango Widgets with 900 searches per month
    Look at top 10 results, are there at least 2 or so PR0/PR1's in there?
    Grab the first result, run it through SEO Spyglass.
    How many links are there?
    Are they using the KEYWORD as their anchor text?
    Whats the PR or "value" of the links?

    If they don't optimize their back links with anchor text, they have 100 PR0 links, they aren't optimizing H1, Title and Inurl tags etc. You can smoke them out of the water.

    Get a bunch of links back to that page with the exact anchor text "blue mango widgets" Maybe change about 10% of them up like "click here", Blue widgets".

    Like 5% of the keyword research is looking for the keyword. The other 95 is analyzing the optimization/backlinks.

    Are you throwing backlinks with the exact anchor text at that specific page?

    The whole point is. It's not your keyword research thats the problem ;)

    ~Rob.
     
  16. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    @zmoney -
    Hey Rob, you have a pretty good grasp of everything, but there's a couple things worth pointing out.
    This is somewhat true, but only if those sites are intentionally optimized for those keywords. The SE try to index for just about everything, so there are many terms a site isn't optimized for that they will still get indexed for. A lot of aged and high PR sites will turn up in the top 10 for many terms they haven't actively targeted for at all.

    That's why it's important to look at all those other factors you mentioned as well, keywords in content, title, url, backlinks, etc. If a 16yo site has been targeting keyword1, keyword2, and keyword3, and it's built up a high PR based on thousands of backlinks anchored with those keywords, then you find it's also ranking for some random keyword6 that you want to target then there's no reason to worry about trying to outrank them with your 2 month old PR0 website.

    The point is don't let the aged and high PR sites scare you away from a profitable keyword unless the rest of your analysis indicates they're intentionally competing for that term directly.

    This is the most important point that you made. Evaluate the competition and then make realistic projections.

    SEO is an ongoing process. If you get a page ranked fast, then good job. If it takes a bit longer for some terms though, that's fine to. Ideally anyone really wanting to make it with a website should be selecting a variety of keywords to target.

    Try to find some low comp terms so you can get some initial traffic (and even some validation that you're accomplishing something), but also target some medium competition and even harder terms as well. The harder terms will take longer to rank, (and some of them may never get there), but when they do it can make a dramatic difference in how profitable your website becomes.

    As I said above, how true that statement is depends on what the intentional competition is for a keyword. Find the right keywords and even a 2 week old site can outrank a high PR site. It just depends whether that high PR site is actually trying to rank or not.

    Those are words of wisdom right there. As I said above, look for easy keywords if you can find them, but at the same time don't be afraid to work for harder terms as well. In the long run your site will have a much better chance of success.

    That sums it all up pretty good there.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  17. KaisGuy

    KaisGuy Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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  18. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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  19. paulcarter97

    paulcarter97 Regular Member

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    Well, in the past I though to tink the google keyword tool is something you need to check SEO Competition. So, I need the market samurai then, any other "free" alternative tools ?
     
  20. casius

    casius Junior Member

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    Alexa is total crap and you will not be able to see anything with alexa.