Facebook Ads Question

racket · Nov 7, 2014

So I have a quick question about FB ads.

When I make a test campaign with $5 budget, I get oCPM cost of around $0.70 for USA
However, when I up the budget to let's say $100, the oCPM cost runs up to $2.50 or even more in some cases.

I am doing newsfeed desktop ads in USA, see picture here:

DAY 1 I set daily budget to $10 and had ok results that would have worked for me
http://i.imgur.com/x6MyJXk.png

DAY 2 I want to spend more $ to make more $ so I upgrade the budget to $40 daily and the CPM cost almost doubled
http://i.imgur.com/EXVdRoH.png

Is there any way to avoid this? Everything is the same, just because I change the budget shouldn't mean I should spend triple or even more on CPM cost. Any tips from pros?

osmokes · Nov 7, 2014

depends on your ctr... your paying more because less people are clicking than when you 1st started it.. sometimes an ad starts off well.. for instance lets say your targeting something and out of the 1st 1000 impressions you get 20 clicks (you would have a 2% ctr) and the next 1000 impressions you only get 10.. then your ctr would drop.. and you would pay more.. you cant go off $5... it also depends on the population of the demographic.. if its small enough the ads will keep showing to the same people.. make sure you have a good size demographic you're targeting.. so once you upped the budget the system just shows the post as much as there is space.. remember they are just selling ad space.. if people not clicking your wasting their space.. so thats why they charge so much when no one clicks.. and one finally clicks.. so id say.. concentrate on the thumbnail, title and target it really well.. maybe uids.. and then finally make sure the population of demographic is a nice number so the frequency can remain low.. once the frequency starts going up youll start paying more.. if the didnt click it the 1st 3 times they wont ever lol.. ive had ads with 8% ctr lol extremely targeted... and was basically paying 2 cents a click

racket · Nov 7, 2014

im doing newsfeed ads for desktop devices

here take a look at these screenshots
1. $10 budget
http://i.imgur.com/x6MyJXk.png

2. $40 budget
http://i.imgur.com/EXVdRoH.png

see how the cpm changed? makes no sense.

osmokes · Nov 7, 2014

yes thats okay.. you want to bid on impressions for newsfeed.. cause the presumption is the content is so targeted that those people will click.. your doing it right.. how big was the demographic that you targeted?

racket · Nov 7, 2014

osmokes said:
yes thats okay.. you want to bid on impressions for newsfeed.. cause the presumption is the content is so targeted that those people will click.. your doing it right.. how big was the demographic that you targeted?

I updated original post with better screenshots and explanaition. The rise in CPM cost is still crazy to me. Why does it do that when I have same CTR if not better?

And the audience size is 5.4M

osmokes · Nov 7, 2014

racket said:
I updated original post with better screenshots and explanaition. The rise in CPM cost is still crazy to me. Why does it do that when I have same CTR if not better?

And the audience size is 5.4M

Those stats dont look right for me.. doesnt look like believable stats.. and if you can get 14% ctr then you are a pro already bro.. also if you can target ads like that.. making money is easy, so why worry about couple dollars in chump change? maybe you should use your skills for CPA.. because if you were you would be banking insanely.. so sounds like your doing maybe an adsense thing.. where you post videos, or whatever.. but im going to be honest i never heard of someone have 11k impressions and 1500 clicks.. just doesnt seem possible.. and if you are getting that then you are a pro and wouldnt worry about a couple dollars...

racket · Nov 7, 2014

osmokes said:
Those stats dont look right for me.. doesnt look like believable stats.. and if you can get 14% ctr then you are a pro already bro.. also if you can target ads like that.. making money is easy, so why worry about couple dollars in chump change? maybe you should use your skills for CPA.. because if you were you would be banking insanely.. so sounds like your doing maybe an adsense thing.. where you post videos, or whatever.. but im going to be honest i never heard of someone have 11k impressions and 1500 clicks.. just doesnt seem possible.. and if you are getting that then you are a pro and wouldnt worry about a couple dollars...

It's not a few dollars in the long run, the CPM price increased from 0.9 to 2.19 after I changed the daily budget from $10 to $40
That's a huge $1.29 difference.

There's no changes in targetting or nothing. I am just wondering why this happens and if there is a way to avoid it or not

KHR · Nov 7, 2014

Yes, Facebook Doing this.
Few days ago I made a campaign budget $5/day. I got likes almost 0 cost ($0.00125/Like).

Then When I upgrade my Budget $25 for 2 Days. FB charged me $0.03-$05/ Like for same ad.

racket · Nov 7, 2014

K.H.R said:
Yes, Facebook Doing this.
Few days ago I made a campaign budget $5/day. I got likes almost 0 cost ($0.00125/Like).

Then When I upgrade my Budget $25 for 2 Days. FB charged me $0.03-$05/ Like for same ad.

yes that's exactly what im talking about
why are we getting charged more if we upgrade budget...
seems pretty stupid

so theres no way to avoid it?

Paper-Boy · Nov 8, 2014

racket said:
yes that's exactly what im talking about
why are we getting charged more if we upgrade budget...
seems pretty stupid

so theres no way to avoid it?

The FB algo is very weird and unpredictable sometimes.

It usually takes 3-4 days before the CPC drops. From my experience anyways.

racket · Nov 8, 2014

Paper-Boy said:
The FB algo is very weird and unpredictable sometimes.

It usually takes 3-4 days before the CPC drops. From my experience anyways.

So what you're saying is, after I upgraded the budget from $10 to $40, the CPM would go back down again after 3-4 days to around the original cost of $0.9?

Paper-Boy · Nov 8, 2014

racket said:
So what you're saying is, after I upgraded the budget from $10 to $40, the CPM would go back down again after 3-4 days to around the original cost of $0.9?

That's just based on my experience. I do CPC not CPM or OCPM.

Like I said, the FB algo is very unpredictable sometimes..

izm · Nov 8, 2014

This is always going to be the case with oCPM, that's why it's best if you can get your camp going by CPC, part of oCPM's objective is to spend all of the set budget.

I rarely have oCPM not hit the budget, so you have to find the sweet spot if you're able to get the traffic cheaper than CPC, and yes, in certain situation it's much better than CPC, specially if you're getting traffic under a penny which you can't bid on. In those cases, you should probably look into experimenting with regular CPM.

racket · Nov 8, 2014

izm said:
This is always going to be the case with oCPM, that's why it's best if you can get your camp going by CPC, part of oCPM's objective is to spend all of the set budget.

I rarely have oCPM not hit the budget, so you have to find the sweet spot if you're able to get the traffic cheaper than CPC, and yes, in certain situation it's much better than CPC, specially if you're getting traffic under a penny which you can't bid on. In those cases, you should probably look into experimenting with regular CPM.

Thanks for the reply.
I've ran tests using oCPM and normal CPM
With CPM on this same ad i'd get like 4% CTR or maybe even less, it just doesn't perform that well

If I were to do CPC ad, it cannot go below 0.01 CPC like it can with oCPM correct? Just want to confirm

izm · Nov 8, 2014

racket said:
Thanks for the reply.
I've ran tests using oCPM and normal CPM
With CPM on this same ad i'd get like 4% CTR or maybe even less, it just doesn't perform that well

If I were to do CPC ad, it cannot go below 0.01 CPC like it can with oCPM correct? Just want to confirm

CPM tends to be lower quality so you'll run into that, but it works for certain circumstances so you have to test.

and yeah, lowest you can bid for cpc is .01, & it seems to stay around there. if you bid $1 per se, your traffic could end up actually costing as low as .20c (or even less with great CTR & healthy nature of the ad) but this doesn't seem the case when bidding at .01, where I actually got .002 on ocpm before with latin america.

be careful with engagement costs and things of that nature, they're not necessarily a click to your website, if it's a photo it could just be a click on the photo, count the clicks for each campaign run on your own end & look for discrepancy.

KHR · Nov 8, 2014

racket said:
yes that's exactly what im talking about
why are we getting charged more if we upgrade budget...
seems pretty stupid

so theres no way to avoid it?

There is no way if you dont target exact highly targeted audience. To do that you have to scrape UID/Email & create CPM Campaign, not CPC.

MrE · Nov 8, 2014

oCPM (Optimized CPM) bids dynamically against the competition, so it increases a bid to get a click it believes will convert for you, while decreasing a bid for a "lower quality click". The cost per 1,000 impressions will usually be 200-400% higher using Optimized CPM, but it's important to look at overall actions/cost per action as a benchmark and not just flat cost per 1,000 impressions.

I've found that oCPM generally converts much better than CPM, but it does carry a higher price tag (allowing you to cap your daily budget), where as CPM rarely hit daily budget caps.

Here is a good read and case study: http://www.jonloomer.com/2013/12/15/cpm-or-ocpm-facebook-ads/

TL;DR - oCPM usually costs much more, converts better, hits daily spend limits / CPM typically much cheaper, converts worse, usually won't hit budget caps - OVERALL WINNER? Like most things up to you to test for your traffic/campaign to see what works best!

osmokes · Nov 8, 2014

izm said:
This is always going to be the case with oCPM, that's why it's best if you can get your camp going by CPC, part of oCPM's objective is to spend all of the set budget.

I rarely have oCPM not hit the budget, so you have to find the sweet spot if you're able to get the traffic cheaper than CPC, and yes, in certain situation it's much better than CPC, specially if you're getting traffic under a penny which you can't bid on. In those cases, you should probably look into experimenting with regular CPM.

Simply not true.. CPM is better by far.. just some campaigns cannot be ran too long.. the demographic has to be a certain size or else the frequency of the ad will be higher.. thus will lower your ctr.. if the same people keep seeing the ads and dont click it will cost more.. CPM should be used to hit a new target.. and there is a limit before the frequency starts raising.. CPC is best for when the thing your targeting isnt common.. or a very low demographic population

racket · Nov 8, 2014

MrE said:
oCPM (Optimized CPM) bids dynamically against the competition, so it increases a bid to get a click it believes will convert for you, while decreasing a bid for a "lower quality click". The cost per 1,000 impressions will usually be 200-400% higher using Optimized CPM, but it's important to look at overall actions/cost per action as a benchmark and not just flat cost per 1,000 impressions.

I've found that oCPM generally converts much better than CPM, but it does carry a higher price tag (allowing you to cap your daily budget), where as CPM rarely hit daily budget caps.

Here is a good read and case study: http://www.jonloomer.com/2013/12/15/cpm-or-ocpm-facebook-ads/

TL;DR - oCPM usually costs much more, converts better, hits daily spend limits / CPM typically much cheaper, converts worse, usually won't hit budget caps - OVERALL WINNER? Like most things up to you to test for your traffic/campaign to see what works best!

thanks for the link
and yes i agree
ive tested campaigns with same targetting everything using ocpm and cpm
and ocpm always performs better

izm · Nov 8, 2014

osmokes said:
Simply not true.. CPM is better by far.. just some campaigns cannot be ran too long.. the demographic has to be a certain size or else the frequency of the ad will be higher.. thus will lower your ctr.. if the same people keep seeing the ads and dont click it will cost more.. CPM should be used to hit a new target.. and there is a limit before the frequency starts raising.. CPC is best for when the thing your targeting isnt common.. or a very low demographic population

maybe in media buying in general, facebook however, nothing about your post indicates that you actually run on facebook.

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