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Ethics and Integrity are important

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by GreyWolf, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Most people who've read alot of my posts (especially my older ones) know that I'm usually the one reminding people how important values are. I've posted many replies pointing out how things like ethics, integrity, respect, and even just basic etiquette have declined so much over the years. I do think our modern society has lost a lot because of that.

    When I was young, not only did our parents try to teach us those values, but much of it was also taught in school. In elementary school we recieved a grade on "Citizenship" that was based on those values. There was even an Ethics class in high school. Things have changed a lot in our society since the 1960s, some things for the better, but in this area I think things have changed much for the worse. Those values aren't taught so much these days even at home, and definately not in schools anymore.

    I made a reply in a thread earlier regarding the mypadmedia product that skagenweb has. I was making a point that even though his product basically just repackages and sells access to free information, that doesn't actually make it unethical. It might not be worthwhile for most people that can just go out and get the information themselves, but that doesn't make it a scam. Anyone that buys it and finds it not worthwhile can just get a refund anyway.

    Well after reading my reply in that thread someone sent a comment telling me I need to "learn what ethics are". That comment does bother me, because I actually do hold myself to a fairly high ethical standard. BHW has become my favorite place to hang out on the internet, but there's a lot of methods here that I wouldn't feel comfortable doing myself. More than half the moneymaking methods shared on BHW are way more unethical than the idea behind mypadmedia. I just browse and search to find the ones I can be comfortable with.

    I understand the negative reviews about mypadmedia on on blogs like geardiary.com. But this is Black Hat World and we're here to learn ways to make money. Even if you personally would never resell anything you could get for free, it's still a great concept on a blackhat forum. For people that are fine with it then it's cool skagenweb came here to find affiliates. If your worried about the ethics of it, well the idea behind the mypadmedia website is actually pretty tame. Compared to many of the blackhat moneymaking methods taught on this forum it could almost be considered whitehat.

    So anyway, I just thought I'd take a minute to let whoever it was know that I actually do "know what ethics are", and yes I think values like ethics and integrity are very important. But thanks for your suggestion anyway.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  2. negligence

    negligence Regular Member

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    Okay, normally i'd be going off the handle right about now, telling you to get a grip. However, I agree.

    I'm not a "what goes around, comes around" kind of guy. However, there's nothing wrong with being honest about what you do. Lying? Yeah, I think it's bad. Leaving out details that the consumer should probably investigate further on their own? Well, that's black hat ;)
     
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  3. bigpurpleguy

    bigpurpleguy Junior Member

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    Hey, fish are free too, is it unethical to sell them?
     
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  4. negligence

    negligence Regular Member

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    Although I didn't commit it to memory, I'm pretty sure he never said that selling free stuff was unethical?
     
  5. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think bigpurpleguy was addressing that to the other people that do say that. I think he was agreeing with my post and your reply.
     
  6. bigpurpleguy

    bigpurpleguy Junior Member

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    Yes.

    On one hand, it's beneath a man of your stature to get down in the dirt with these types, but, on the other, the idea of honor is what separates us from the lower creatures so I appreciate your full-throated allegiance to the concept.

    Thanks.
     
  7. LiamLC

    LiamLC Regular Member

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    lol did you just make this thread to complain about your neg rep. That's what it seems like lol. Here I'll up u 2 points if it makes you happy because that doesn't seem like a fair neg rep. Neg reps should be for people acting like douches and ass holes.

    +2 :)

    edit: OMG you have a high rep! :)
     
  8. Mrnewbie

    Mrnewbie Regular Member Premium Member

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    I don't think he was at all complaining about it just voicing his displeasure for being judged (neg) on showing others that the product was not morally correct but shouldn't deserved to be criticized on those merits.

    Also, I have to say, greywolf is probably one of the reasons why I enjoy bhw. My reasoning for saying so is that he kicks it back to the old school which I can relate to. Can't you see the gems he has produced for the newbies and for others. I think if you read some of his contributions to bhw, we are all lucky he is here. Just my humble non kissing ass opinion. I appreciate people who take time out of their schedule to help others, a rare act!

    Finally let the forum be about learning and helping others instead of pointing the finger, judging and counterproductive acts. Off my preachers podium lol
     
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  9. LiamLC

    LiamLC Regular Member

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    lol ok I wasn't bashing him, I was just wondering why he went through all the trouble of posting a thread just to complain about a neg rep (I understand now). But ya, I totally agree with everything you said.

    Ok I understand. I know, I hate neg reps. In one sense, it's important that they're anonymous but at the same time it's bad because some stupid jr vip can just de-rep you and go on like it's perfectly fine. My first rep was neg because someone posted in a different language and I pointed out that that was against the rules. Then some jr vip who thought it was funny that he couldn't speak english so negged me. I know who it was and I could easily neg rep him now but I've decided to let it go. I think it is important to tell people to not be stupid with neg reps. He could have easily replied to your post and simply discussed his disagreement with your ethical standards and judgement or if he had a concern for privacy PMed you.
     
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  10. WizGizmo

    WizGizmo Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    I am not talking ethics here, but rather, common sense.

    I see value in both types of marketing.

    Black Hat Marketing is designed for the quick hit - the quick cash. It is a more aggressive type of marketing. It works, but only on a short-term basis. You have to keep changing up all of the time. Nevertheless, it is profitable.

    Relationship Marketing is designed for the long term. Over a period of time, you build trust and give your customers tons of free, valuable content. You send out one or two emails to your subscribers every week and give them more and more free stuff. You become an authority. And then when you have something to sell, they gladly buy from you. They grow to like you and trust you and they recommend you to their friends. This method gives you customers for life. Also very profitable.

    Cheers! - "Wiz"
     
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  11. Rukiara

    Rukiara Registered Member

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    Yeah its that whole "If you are good at something never do it for free mentality."

    I, too, have an amount of morals and certain things I won't do, but on the other hand sometimes I get that idea of "If someone is willing to pay for something like this, why not?" Ya know? It's like instead of giving away free info for free you charge for it...but anyone ambitious enough could find the info for free but people want a "Quick fix", the people you are selling the "free info" too are commonly people who probably are lazy or they will one day learn to get it on their own.

    Nothing is free in life, you either work hard for it or you buy it from someone who did work hard. I guess. LOL.
     
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  12. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Thanks Wiz. "I see value in both types of marketing." That sums it up pretty good.
     
  13. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    One other reason BH marketing became more prevalent is that the so-called "long-term" WH techniques, while sound on paper, often turn out to be a bust in the real world. Google changes its algo again, and suddenly a long term method becomes a short term failing technique. Or a social site changes its code or policies, and so prevents the 'relationships' you formed from continuing in a profitable way.

    Or, manual blog commenting is too tedious to select and build up backlinks for in a reasonable period of time, necessitating automated programs like Scapebox. This means no one is safe to do 'long term' things that are actually subject to fundamental short-term upheaval. The BH short-term "quick cash" methods, in that context, turn out to be the real lifeline for many IMers.
     
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  14. WizGizmo

    WizGizmo Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    What does Google's algorithm have to do with anything when you are marketing to your list? . . .

    Clayton Makepeace does 60 Million Dollars a year by relationship marketing through email to his subscribers. Try telling him it's a big fail.

    "Wiz"
     
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  15. LiamLC

    LiamLC Regular Member

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    Yeah, and Googles algorithms aren't going to discount legitimate SEO anyways. They only change the algorithms to avoid exploitation and improve search relevancy (because doing both those things = more ads revenue for them) so if you a legitmate white hat website with legitimate white seo you have nothing to worry about in fact when they improve their algorithm it may help you.
     
  16. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    I didn't say the G changes always damage whatever marketing system a person has set up, just that it happens frequently enough to be an issue. I wasn't speaking specifically about list building.
     
  17. MrOrange

    MrOrange Newbie

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    I agree. Mypadmedia is just repacking information in an easy format for people to get information, I dont find that unethical.