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Doubts about SEO Packages / Services to grow visits

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by jtrash01, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. jtrash01

    jtrash01 Regular Member

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    Part 1 - Let me describe the "problem"

    I've been reading some threads tonight in the marketplace. "SEO Packages" & "SEO Link Building". I've found some that seems cheap but interesting. Services that offers hundreds of Social signals, plus other type of backlinks, others that offer 10k GSA Backlinks... all that around $2 - $10

    But I have a lot of doubts... Mainly because I do not fully understand SEO. How to proceed to do a good keyword research, how to index a page, how to check the position of that indexed page. And so on...

    Well, in theory.. the game plan is quite simple:
    • You has a domain and a hosting
    • You place an order in one of those services and you send them your (url + keywords)
    • Time to wait till delivery > drip feed > reports > rank improvement
    • That way you appear in the search engines and start getting organic uniques to your site/money site/squeeze page/landing and so.
    Is that correct ?

    Part 2 - My Doubts

    1) It's True that this kind of services will not work If our site Is not previously configured with the different search engine analytic tools ? Google, Bing, Yandex(metrica) analytics, signed up in Google Search console, Alexa rank and so ? How mandatory is it for these services to work ?

    2) If I just built my site yesterday. It's a shiny new website with almost 0 visits. It would be "Not ranked" for google or "PR0" site ? Would still make sense to get one of that packages to grow our sites ? Or would it be completely useless ? I mean. To rank it a bit would be a pre-requisite before ordering that kind of services ?

    3) They usually say that their links are permanent. But there's competition too. And small kings could be overthrown quickly. How much time the effect of their packages/services I could expect ? Days ? Weeks ? Months ?

    4) And... Anyone could dare to say how many organic visits that kind of services could bring to a new site ? Are we talking of hundreds ? thousands uv's ? What to expect ? 1000 a day ? 30.000 a day ? 75.000 ? What's a realistic number ?

    ps. Would be awesome if someone replies include images with stats showing the gaining in terms of PR or Visits (uniques)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  2. lightningblitz

    lightningblitz Elite Member

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    No one can tell you how many visits it will bring. But I can answer some questions and give advice.

    1. 10K links, 250 PBN Posts, 1000 Social Signals, GSA Blast, Xrummer Blast, $5 Link Pyramid, $10 Secret Sauce links are most often SPAM.
    2. Never buy SEO unless you understand SEO.
    3. I would never send the aforementioned links directly to any site I am building.
    4. These links could harm your site. (Read could as will).
    5. The links (Especially spam) will eventually drop off to some degree. They will not all vanish.
    6. SEO is an ongoing process. You can't expect to blast 10K links and expect to be at #1 forever.
    7. If this were easy, everyone would be making 100K a day and drinking on our private plane going to visit CEO Sam and Jennifer in their ocean front mansion.
     
  3. EatSleepSEO

    EatSleepSEO BANNED BANNED

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    PBN posts are mostly spam? Must've been a typo...
     
  4. lightningblitz

    lightningblitz Elite Member

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    The 250 PBN blasts for $10 - $25 bucks are.

    No typo, but I should have clarified. I assumed people would understand what I was saying due to context.
     
  5. EatSleepSEO

    EatSleepSEO BANNED BANNED

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    You're right but PBN posts are not going to cost $10-$25. Anyone selling PBN posts in this price range are not running a good quality PBN (If a PBN at all).
     
  6. lightningblitz

    lightningblitz Elite Member

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    Those are the services I am mentioning.

    You can buy 'PBN' posts REALLY cheap in the market place. The sellers tell you to use them as tier two or three directly and they are open about it being very low quality and spammed.

    I think I have seen up to 400 'PBN' posts for under $50. We obviously know they are spammed, spun, and low quality. New members like OP see 'PBN' and '$15' and think they found a deal. While these are good for tiered link juice, that is not something you ever point to your money site.

    I am pretty sure idealu and lover sell such PBN posts. Take a gander in the market place for their sales threads. I know people like OP will buy them, tank a website and blame the seller. I am trying to warn against that.
     
  7. EatSleepSEO

    EatSleepSEO BANNED BANNED

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    Yes and it's important that potential buyers know that, these PBN's that cheap posts are being sold from are highly spammed with spun content and high outbound links. Definitely not "Tier 1" worthy for sure but I agree, they're great for Tier 2-3 for passing "some" link juice.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. jtrash01

    jtrash01 Regular Member

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    Thanks for replying.

    They usually say that is safe against google. They argue that their services are "drip feed". And I'm not native english but I understant they mean that they don't spam all of that links at once ¬°Boom!, instead they send them progresively over a week or two. In that case you would consider them harmful too ?
    Couldn't be a good first start ? just to make the ball start rolling ? It's very frustrating to create a site, and see how difficult is to promote it, how difficult is to get regular organic traffic. Or to rank it.

    I've read about that tonight too... Should be better to create tier3, tier2 sites to point to our tier 1 site or money site right ?

    I know. But growth must start somewhere. And growth could be exponential too... If they knew you. I'm not targeting #1 position at this moment. And I'm not talking about PR7-8 backlinks.. Couldn't be useful just as a start... just to ease things a bit, just to turn the "machine" alive. Aren't PR1-2/3-4 safer while starting to index a site ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  9. lightningblitz

    lightningblitz Elite Member

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    Do not trust the sellers. Before I 'knew' SEO I could fire up GSA and sell 10K links. They are never 'safe' because it is spam.

    I would suggest building some tier one properties yourself and pick up GSA and build tiers yourself.

    10K links, even over two weeks, means you are getting over 500 garbage links to your site a day.

    If google takes six months to index them all, you still have 10K garage links pointed to your domain.

    You want quality pointing to your website if you want it to last.
     
  10. chmafia

    chmafia Newbie

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    A PR3 site (homepage post) with 10 outgoing (non internal links) would give 3/10 you about 0.6 PR, thus ranking you up on search. More links less juice, most of the spammy PBN's are not even using a homepage post but just a internal post with lots of outgoing link, there is a significant juice drop, not only that eventually google will figure this out all linked site will have a negative value. Drip feeding or no, it would'nt matter, I would go for quality homepage posts. You can create your own PBN for under $ 500 (including hosting for a year)(5-7 sites with DA/TC 15-25), maybe more if you are good, also you can sell links to your friends (trust) for money, exchange of service (I would'nt have more than 5 homepage post per PBN). Good Luck
     
  11. jtrash01

    jtrash01 Regular Member

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    I don't trust the sellers. This is why I've started this thread. I usually see the marketplace as a place full of sharks ready to bite hehe
    I don't even trust you... please no offence. I think your words can be very helpful, and you're really trying to give advice, what you said till now. I like your contundence/forcefulness saying really clear that this is SPAM. What I'm asking myself is If you run any of these paid services, pbn posts or so. But I don't care too much... is not a problem.

    Well another thing is that I wasn't talking just about PBN's... PBN's are a thing, Social signals, bookmarks, GSA Backlings are different things too. Do you still think that the services that offer links on tumblr, facebook, bookmark sites would be junk ? SPAM ? I haven't put their links here just for respect. I don't want to bother them. But they offer something like, 200, 400, 600, 800 social bookmarks, ehmm and 30 high pr manual bookmarks and so. Isn't google looking/seeing with good eyes the links in social networks ?

    Ok, lets say it's all SPAM. And I *MUST* be cautious. Small packages are too ? The harm, the risks, are mostly about the quantity ? Maybe could be there one good service between all the junk ? picked with caution... couldn't it help to draw some visits without risking the site ? If sending them to your tier sites Tier 2 -> Tier 1 ie.

    So you suggest doing it manually ? Create a site, create second sites, linking them... What I've done are site that auto-generate content from database, mostly images with titles. I haven't entered into the micro niche or niche sites, not yet. Because Its not natural to write, create articles about something you're not passionate as it could be "weight loss". My tiny traffic usually comes from tumblr, from my own custom poster/follower driven blogs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  12. lightningblitz

    lightningblitz Elite Member

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    I do not run any services on BHW. Do not plan on it for the simple reason I know what it takes to rank and for most people, they do not need links. They need consulting, website review, and to learn how to do SEO. Maybe I can find a way to make money off of that, but I can't ethically sell links knowing it will not help most people rank because the majority of clients are buying links to buy links in my experience.

    The banner in my signature is from a seller. JR VIPs sell signature space to businesses and sellers to advertise for them. It just so happens I get the OP's service for free every month for having the banner in my sig and helping people, which I already do. It is a win - win for both of us (I save hundreds on outsourcing PBN links, the seller receives a lot of free advertising).

    Common sense applies. I have a ranking guide on BHW somewhere as well you may want to check out.

    If you can buy 30 Social Bookmarks for $0.99, do you think they will help you?

    If it is not contextual, adding value to the source, or exclusive, it is spam.

    This means that some link types (Contextual links, for example) are harder to automate, the sites the links are posted on are more selective, and tend to pass the 'spam' test. Some lower quality links can add value to the source, such as a link in a blog comment where you are interacting with some genuinely. Exclusive links such as Guest Posts are most often not spam.

    Other links, like blog comments, image comments, most social bookmarks, most profile links, guest book, directory, ect, are all low quality links anyone can throw up, or take down.


    GSA blasts typically consist of all link platforms GSA will make, blasted at a site. It is a majority of low quality links and some better links sprinkled in.

    Every service has its place in SEO. Social Bookmarks I use a LOT and I suggest it to many people, for a specific purpose. This purpose is indexing posts or tier one properties like Web 2.0s. Some things struggle to get picked up by google, and Bookmarks help force them to index. Many Bookmarks are no - follow (Will not directly help you rank), an inner page of a site (No real link juice passed), and look spammy. Unless you know how to use them, they are not the best link source.

    A tumblr blog is a Web 2.0 and is generally a better quality link. It does depend what article is on tumbler, but it is generally better.

    Facebook social signals are in large part useless for SEO. They help index posts and can drive traffic with Facebook engagement.

    The only way to learn what works is to try it, and fail. I can say use the search function, check out guides on how to rank (I have one, so does an older user Kimi) which will point you in the right direction. You still need to test and figure out what will rank your site and bring you traffic.

    The best way to figure this all out is to register multiple blogs (Wordpress, Blogspot, Jimbo, ect) and try to rank the same Keyword on each blog. Get an article and spin it so the content is almost all identical. Then build links. You will see some links will get a site tanked, others will help but then hurt you, and others will make you rank.

    Until you test for yourself, you will never 'get it'. This applies to everyone in SEO and on BHW.

    As far as bringing traffic, you can have a limited and temporary success with social media links. The problem is it will not help in longevity and ranking long term. Social Bookmarks, Q and A, ect all fit in here. They serve a purpose, sure. But most sellers here are not selling links on these platforms which will bring you traffic. They are done with automation or on dummy accounts, and no real person will see your links in most cases. It is only for link building purposes, not to bring traffic.

    The best way to rank are contextual links on high quality platforms. You can try everything else but I would strongly suggest you save your money.
     
  13. jtrash01

    jtrash01 Regular Member

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    PR is calculated that way ? Really ? But then a page ranked as PR3 with 3/3 would give 1PR ??
    I see, If you depend on these services you do not control that part. And you can't really know (without experimentation) if as you said they are pushing lot of links, the quality of the pages, and so...
    What do you really mean by "homepage post" the permalink to the post.. the post itself ? If so, you mean to promote links, from that permalinks rather than from the real homepage ?
    I've read about PBN's here, I think its a good resource. http://affpayday.com
     
  14. jtrash01

    jtrash01 Regular Member

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    I'll search it !

    Recently I've read this post http://feinternational.com/blog/how-to-make-six-figures-a-year-without-seo/ that is from a moderator "meathead1234" http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/making-money/359445-easy-100-day-perfect-noobs.html There he suggest to use google, filtering results to find a gap where you can put links to promote the site... A similar thing is to use the footprints to find guests posts... you know "powered by wordpress" inurl:"blabla", "comments powered by disqus" + keyword and so...


    I couldn't agree more. And about how to rank, I'm quite lost... Again my doubts arises. ie: I don't know how much time could take to rank a website. I don't mean to PR9, I don't want to be the next facebook (yet :p). And I'm not talking about to apear in the 1st position. What I say is, how much time just to be ranked, to appear in google, to be ehmm PR2-4. Something that helps me drive some organic traffic passively. And I don't have a clue on how much time could it take haha

    Seems that you already know how...

    Do you think that you could index an image based site ? an automated photoblog... like a humble, small 9gag site. I've created a small prototype https://youtu.be/74jgKMEXkm8 full of ads muahaha They follow the scroll xD But I've disabled them with adblock because they was nsfw from CrakRevenue and the niche was NSFW too, but I can change the niche by just changing a word (was "funny" now). I know It lacks a basic navigation, social links, but it can be easily added.

    Thats a good idea. To get a selfhosted blog wordpress.com blogger, or tumblr. Put a domain on it and try to rank the site. If It's not doable being an image based blog... Maybe I should start thinking in taking the time to elaborate niche or microniche sites (despite I don't like the idea and as I said before I'm not really passionate about writing ie. weight loss articles or so... :vroam:)

    I still have to withdraw $236 from CrakRevenue. Since I'm from spain. And the payee is a canadian bank. What I'll do is to get paid in paxum then use an exchange service to get my money into my paypal xd Then, plus my shorte.st earnings $15 as much lol... I'll invest a part in buying a .com domain (taking care of what happens when the year ends, they often charge a lot then) And I'll go for one small VPS. Paid yearly from lowendbox, lowendtalk sites ;) The rest will remain untouched.
     
  15. EatSleepSEO

    EatSleepSEO BANNED BANNED

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    A lot of sellers will most of the time build a home page link to your page and leave it for a couple of weeks so you jump in ranks, then the buyer will post an "I'm now #1 buy this service" review at which point in time the seller will move the home page post to an internal page and then move the next client's post to the home page and recycle the process.

    Since PBN owners (99% of the time) don't reveal the links to the buyers to "protect the network", the buyers never "see" the change and when the rankings drop they'll be told "Don't worry about it, it's just the "honeymoon" period, it'll stabalize".

    This is why I like to build "my own" where "I'm" in control.
     
  16. The SEO

    The SEO Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    1) It's True that this kind of services will not work If our site Is not previously configured with the different search engine analytic tools ? Google, Bing, Yandex(metrica) analytics, signed up in Google Search console, Alexa rank and so ? How mandatory is it for these services to work ?

    Ans. SEO services isn't mean it will skyrocket your rank whereas it's part of strategy of following factors:

    Ranking Factors:
    1. Good Website Presentation
    2. Attractive and Unique Content
    3. On-page should be done by experienced or well researched
    4. Now it's time for SEO Services if you done 1, 2 and 3 properly then SEO Packages help you to boost your rank gradually.

    2) If I just built my site yesterday. It's a shiny new website with almost 0 visits.
    It would be "Not ranked" for google or "PR0" site ? Would still make sense to get one of that packages to grow our sites ? Or would it be completely useless ? I mean. To rank it a bit would be a pre-requisite before ordering that kind of services ?

    Ans. Well in that case, you should make a deep research in finding a seller who understand that fact your website is new so which links seller have to build first {such as social profiling, web 2.0s, business listings etc} and specially take care drip feed submission.

    3) They usually say that their links are permanent. But there's competition too. And small kings could be overthrown quickly. How much time the effect of their packages/services I could expect ? Days ? Weeks ? Months ?

    Ans. You know links never be permanent because every domain expired after 1 year so most of owners don't renew and all links on that website gone. If you order 100 links then after 3 month 65% links live after 6 months may be only 30% to 40% links remaining. Also it depends on indexing, Is that Google index all of your backlinks??? So you have to continue buy seo services to feed your website a backinks on regular basis.

    If your website is at least 1 year old with good and fresh content then you see SERP improvement within a month. If its new then minimum 3 months to show in Google top 100 also it depends upon the competition as well.

    4) And... Anyone could dare to say how many organic visits that kind of services could bring to a new site ? Are we talking of hundreds ? thousands uv's ? What to expect ? 1000 a day ? 30.000 a day ? 75.000 ? What's a realistic number ?

    Its a million dollar question and no one can answer because SEO is the process if strategy is good and you ranked, well 100k visitors per day possible.

    ps. Would be awesome if someone replies include images with stats showing the gaining in terms of PR or Visits (uniques)

    Right now I don't have unique visitor stats but have a looking on ranking improvements here kindly scroll down and see, all ranking shots are legit and still increasing.
     
  17. Cshark

    Cshark Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Stay away from SEO unless you understand what makes the difference. It takes time and dedication, and a lot of knowledge-gathering.
     
  18. davids355

    davids355 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    SEO is about much more than just backlinks - you need to have a good site with really good content that services the need of people searching for it.

    On-page SEO needs to be done well so the search engines know what your site is about and who your services are catering for.

    Backlinks are of course important but you need quality backlinks and you need the right anchor diversity so that Google knows/thinks that other sites are linking to your site because they believe you are an authority on a particular subject.

    You need a steady flow of backlinks that looks natural and you need high quality and relevant backlinks that fit with the content on your site.

    There aren't many niches where you are going to be able to rank for $10 or so - any niche where there is money to be made there will be others who are trying to rank for the same keywords and therefor there will be competition.

    So based on that you need to really do a lot of research before hand - you need to work out who you are targeting, what keywords you are targeting, how much traffic there is for those keywords, how well you can convert the traffic into sales and how much you can make for each sale. Based on that you can decide how much you can afford to spend on ranking that keyword.

    You also have to remember that SEO is not guaranteed in any shape or form - you could spend ages ranking a site and it could get hit by an update from Google and disappear. So you need to diversify and not keep all your eggs in one basket.

    thats just the basics so its a complicated subject and there is lots to learn. The best way to understand it though is just to try and then modify based on the results.
     
  19. jtrash01

    jtrash01 Regular Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback ! It really helps me to make myself an idea on these services.
    The question was quite concrete and it was answered by some of you now.
    I prefer to start new threads with broader questions or specific but other questions, rather than extending this losing the initial topic.
    But everyone is free to ask their own questions/doubts !