Do you believe in Aliens?

Aliens=The Agents of the Devil

"You either destroy yourself or you learn to cooperate and stop fighting".
This is a real threat I think on the development of most of the carbon based intelligent life out there. Carbon based life would most likely have a similar planet as ours and discover the use of hydrocarbons like oil and coal and the negative effects on their planet. Nuclear fission would look like the next step as we ourselves discovered it and would bring with it the potential of creation of weapons of mass destruction. These discoveries probably cause a decent percentage of developing species to go extinct, along with unlucky events as super-viruses or natural occurrences such as meteorites and gamma ray bursts.

Imagine that a life form succeeded to survive its environment and self-inflicted extinction, and did that 500 million years earlier than us (which is a small time on the cosmic scale), they'd be so advanced we wouldn't even look as intelligent as a collection of ants. But if life would be very common, why haven't we seen any evidence of life? Granted, we specifically look for life very much like us but still, one would think that in 500 million years from now, Humans could have populated quite a number of planets. If even 1 in 100.000 planets would create intelligent life that goes venturing into space, we should have seen evidence by now like specific EM-waves. Maybe before they started colonizing on a large scale they got so intelligent and rational that they decided to cease to exist, because that's the rational thing to do? Maybe they quickly discovered a better way of communication than EM-waves? Maybe there is life so different we cannot even observe them? Maybe life isn't created as easily as we think?

To me, religion has nothing to do in a thread where people are talking science, and especially the bible. It's quite obvious how the bible came into existence by wild imagination and copying of other stories. Just look at the similarities between the religions and how it all connects to the gods of ancient Egypt. (The movie 'Zeitgeist' gives an idea) Religion has suppressed science long enough, we'd easily be 500 years further advanced without it. People have always wanted to explain the unknown with the divine so it's not scary/unknown anymore, I think the time has come to look further. We can be good people without needing a dude we invented to guide us. You may hate me for saying this, well someone 3000 years ago would hate you for not believing in their gods (which were the foundations of the creation of your 'one true god').

If we survive the coming couple of hundred years and learn to get the planet in balance again, we can seriously start populating other planets and up the chances of our survival as a species.

I do not doubt the existence of intelligent life out there, only maybe less common than predicted by Drake's equation. I think the equation is flawed in that is doesn't have enough variables and that those values are too speculative in the first place to give a dependable result.

Yep.
We've already had contact with them before, and they've been here too.
Its stupid to think that there isnt any other intelligent life out there.

No, it's following a false prophet.
Steps foot in my yard it will die and I will take a selfie tea-bagging.

I believe there is other life out there somewhere simply due to the fact that we exist, therefore it's possible than some other life form can exist too, it's just that the universe is so big our human brains can't comprehend it's size, for example there is more planets/stars out there than there is grains of sand on earth..

madoctopus said:

I personally disagree. Life on earth existed for a long time and throughout history there have been accounts of alien encounters and UFOs (including ones that got out of the ocean). They're in famous paintings, they're in books the Vatican tried to exterminate and burned alive those who wrote them. Of course one could say that all those historic recordings might be just someone's imagination not a record of something factual. There's no way to argue pro or against but thing is there are tons of such records. Not just that but archeological findings that make no sense.

On top of that, considering the time since we exist here, and by extension life on earth exists, there was no alien-produced extinction so far.

Now, leaving all those hard-to-prove things, I think you're missing something when you compare aliens with Columbus. Columbus went searching for India and had a financially motivated plan. When he reached Americas the empires took over because they had material gains to obtain. At that time there were certain mentalities and interests. Today same thing happens - though in a different form - with natives in Amazonian forest who get extincted by oil/wood/etc. companies so they can exploit the areas (look on https://earthengine.google.org/#intro/Amazon for amazon deforestation over past 20 years - zoom out!).

However, that is us, humans. Saying aliens are expected to be like that is a generalization without foundation. Assuming aliens would be the same is like assuming ants are like us or wolves are like us. And no, animals don't do it because they're retarded - they could easily kill more than they need - but because they are living in a certain equilibrium with their environment. We are the only species that screws up the environment and others and we don't all do it. As a matter of fact saying humans extinct eachother is incorrect. Some humans extinct others. Not everybody is an invasive, destructive maniac wishing war.

Another aspect is what happened with Columbus was an invasion/war/conquest not an extinction. When he discovered Americas the interest was not to extinct everybody there but to control/enslave them to work for the empire. Same shit happened everywhere not just with Columbus. It happened because that's how those times were not because of a superior vs inferior species contest.

Extinction in nature literally does not occur. If it does please correct me. I simply can't think of any species that extincted another one. Even in predator/prey situations the predators do not produce extinction of the prey because they need it (equilibrium). Plus the Columbus example is not species1 vs species2 but a conflict within same species. Even ages ago, "less evolved" people used to live in equilibrium. American Indians respected animals and had a very balanced life without destroying their environment.

Moreover, we are already technically evolved enough to destroy all life on earth (Nukes) but we don't. Nobody uses nukes against others that are weaker. They use standard warfare. Because they don't want extinction they want control.

"Just like us they had to survive the evolution process, possibly on a more hostile planet, fighting more hostile animals." - contrary to you I think survival is achieved through cooperation not fighting. This is a fundamental reason why we exist - because we mainly cooperated. This cooperation exists even between species (2 species work togheter because they benefit from eachother). So I think for aliens to manage to achieve such technological greatness and such a high degree of knowledge and understanding of the universe they must have cooperated quite well, otherwise they would have self-destructed. As a matter of fact I think there might be a critical point where you discover the "nuke" - you either destroy yourself or you learn to cooperate and stop fighting.

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I see two cases with aliens.

The first is simple - an old race, that travels the space for a long time already, and has but an academic interest in the "apes" of Earth. Cooperation is out of question in this case, just as alien produced extinction.

The second one is more realistic. Same as mathematics, economy is another candidate for universal language. Interstellar travels cost money, and just like with Christopher Columbus, someone with non-academic interest is usually the one to fund them. Races that face overpopulation on their own planets are likely to have a lot of such an investors. Obviously, in this case, cooperation is out of question as well, because there is a clear interest to extinct.

Yes I do believe that "aliens" exist with all the planets out there.

Noooot! going to het into the whole religion debate.. Religious people can be religious if they wish. Science people can be scientific, lets not confuse the 2. They are completely separate.

Please please please keep religion out of BHW... I have my firm opinions on which ever I am but this is NOT the place to share it.

On a mathmatical level there is a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 r % there are other lifeforms. No one can be certain of ANYTHING.... EVER.

The first aliens, I believe, were the people known as Adam and Eve. (Who produced them on earth? If none is the answer then they must have come from other planet or a star, err whatever). So now tell me who are aliens? Because leaving some odd people out, most are bound to destroy this planet. That isn't the way a true "resident" should behave... Tell me, which idiot would want his own and only HOME ruined forever?

craphouse said:

"You either destroy yourself or you learn to cooperate and stop fighting".
This is a real threat I think on the development of most of the carbon based intelligent life out there. Carbon based life would most likely have a similar planet as ours and discover the use of hydrocarbons like oil and coal and the negative effects on their planet. Nuclear fission would look like the next step as we ourselves discovered it and would bring with it the potential of creation of weapons of mass destruction. These discoveries probably cause a decent percentage of developing species to go extinct, along with unlucky events as super-viruses or natural occurrences such as meteorites and gamma ray bursts.

Imagine that a life form succeeded to survive its environment and self-inflicted extinction, and did that 500 million years earlier than us (which is a small time on the cosmic scale), they'd be so advanced we wouldn't even look as intelligent as a collection of ants. But if life would be very common, why haven't we seen any evidence of life? Granted, we specifically look for life very much like us but still, one would think that in 500 million years from now, Humans could have populated quite a number of planets. If even 1 in 100.000 planets would create intelligent life that goes venturing into space, we should have seen evidence by now like specific EM-waves. Maybe before they started colonizing on a large scale they got so intelligent and rational that they decided to cease to exist, because that's the rational thing to do? Maybe they quickly discovered a better way of communication than EM-waves? Maybe there is life so different we cannot even observe them? Maybe life isn't created as easily as we think?

To me, religion has nothing to do in a thread where people are talking science, and especially the bible. It's quite obvious how the bible came into existence by wild imagination and copying of other stories. Just look at the similarities between the religions and how it all connects to the gods of ancient Egypt. (The movie 'Zeitgeist' gives an idea) Religion has suppressed science long enough, we'd easily be 500 years further advanced without it. People have always wanted to explain the unknown with the divine so it's not scary/unknown anymore, I think the time has come to look further. We can be good people without needing a dude we invented to guide us. You may hate me for saying this, well someone 3000 years ago would hate you for not believing in their gods (which were the foundations of the creation of your 'one true god').

If we survive the coming couple of hundred years and learn to get the planet in balance again, we can seriously start populating other planets and up the chances of our survival as a species.

I do not doubt the existence of intelligent life out there, only maybe less common than predicted by Drake's equation. I think the equation is flawed in that is doesn't have enough variables and that those values are too speculative in the first place to give a dependable result.

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A theory is we are in a sort of quarantine and the civilizations that are in charge of taking care of us do not interfere unless absolutely needed. There are written ancient stories that translated to today's meaning and language describe aliens who stumbled upon earth and some sort of intelligence warned them they are prohibited from interfering with us, landing on earth, etc. Before they managed to communicate they tried to enter Earth's atmosphere and the ship has been destroyed. The story is longer, is from a book circa year 1500 that the Vatican tried to destroy to the last and who's author has been chased for years, found and executed for heresy. The story was not of the writer because the book was a compendium of events/stories he recorded from other people from various places.

Another non-conflicting theory is Earth is a prison & school planet, again maintained under some sort of quarantine and it even has an subtle energetic barrier that stops most people on it to leave (either in phisical form or in spirit/out-of-body-experience (OBE) far outside the planet).

I know this guy who is a telepathic person, does energy work and can do OBE by intent (whenever he wants, even without going in a trance - e.g. while walking). I have no doubt about his telepathic abilities as he proved them to me beyond any doubt. Actually I know 3 people like that but the other 2 I don't know that well. More than that, I had 3 OBE experiences myself but they were during sleep and I can't do them on purpose (yet). You might say this is all bullshit and unprovable but it is not. It is unprovable in a scientific way because they are not necessarily easily repeatable, especially not by anybody who has zero training in this area and no ability to do this. Another thing is for some reason people who reach a certain level have zero interest to prove anything or shove knowledge into ignorant's heads - see my last paragraph in the article.

Now, what people who do OBE describe is pretty much the same thing, in detail. There are plenty of people who did OBE or remote viewing and had contact like that with aliens - e.g. person goes to sleep, spirit goes out of body, travels (instantly) to some other planet (regardless of distance), looks around for a while, maybe talks with the aliens (if they're evolved enough spiritually to sense and communicate with a non-physical presence) then returns in the body.

I'm not saying anybody who thinks had an OBE actually had one. But people who trained a lot for this and do it like you and I walk, they are past the point of uncertainty whether it is OBE or a dream.

I was completely atheist and didn't believed in any of this stuff for most part of my life. Then I had some weird experiences which some of them should have been physically impossible and started to become more sensitive to subtle stuff. So I started to research and train into this and learned a lot of stuff.

Besides the usual "spaceship" travel method, it seems Earth is connected with other planets through portals (gates to energetic highways). I don't know if this is the case with every single planet and star but there are several portals on Earth and a sensitive person that goes close to a portal actually feels the energy from the other planet. Won't go into details because is really hard to explain to somebody who never sensed stuff like this and has no knowledge in this area.

Now, why did I say people with certain abilities have no wish to shove knowledge into ignorant people?

If you're looking to learn, understand and experience then you have to be open to information and knowledge of any kind (even incorrect). You need to be a sponge. I'm not saying you need to be an extreme believer or anything of that kind and not use ur logic to discern between things and understand things. Most people, especially hardcore scientists are limiting themselves by believing things must be in a certain way. Their way. In other words they're also extremist believers just like a overly religious person, just that their religion is a narrow type of science. The way to learn something is to be open enough to accept a possibility even when it makes no sense to you and when logic tells you it should be impossible. Then as you go into it you will figure out the details, what was right, what was wrong, what you misinterpreted or misunderstood. Science as a whole is pure theory. Everything is based in theory, assumptions and a certain limited artificial view of the universe, devised by a limited human mind. The Big Bang is no less dogmatic and belief-based than the idea of a pink unicorn that farts gold glitter. Problem is, people have this ego-based thing of thinking they're right because their logic makes sense to them. Read that sentence carefully until you get it all. They feel entitled to say something is in a certain way because they're experts in that field without realizing that their field is a tiny, narrow, superficial part of how things are, perceived through imperfect, limited senses and analyzed using an imperfect, subjective, limited mind.

So for a scientist is very easy and the de-facto answer to say something is bullshit and impossible because HE can't replicate or observe it himself. As a matter of fact most scientists are so self-limiting that even when they have measurable hard data they still disregard it simply because they can't understand it (see the 100+ experiments and studies in telepathy or morphic fields). To go even further, the most useful healing process ever is being disregarded, ignored and considered a glitch - the placebo effect. People literally got cured from cancer, AIDS, leukemia and all sorts of diseases simply because of the placebo effect and relatively healthy people got ill or died from the opposite effect. And while it is an obvious, measurable, observable effect it is completely ignored because they can't explain it in their particular scientific way. And of course they can't because the placebo effect is not a material/physical effect. It does not have a material cause-effect architecture.

So if you really want to understand things and learn, then you have to be open even to stuff that doesn't make sense to you. Maybe especially to stuff that makes no sense to you or seems impossible. Because if it does make sense to you then it is within your realm of understanding and within your comfort zone, hence not a true lesson or novel knowledge.

I'm not saying you should believe in telepathy, OBE, RV, energy healing, angels, demons, aliens, whatever. You believe what you can, want to and are able to believe. But if you lock yourself in a certain narrow mindset at least don't delude yourself that you realy want to understand how things are.

or course they exists, not necessarily intelligent aliens, but something has to be out there

can u add a 3rd option in the poll? the i don't care option

Statistically it is near impossible that we are the only intelligent life form. If the 'end' of the universe is as far away as it would take light to travel 13.8 billion years, that's pretty big. However, for us to sit here and say "yeah sure, there is life out there" is pretty stupid. No human has ever been subjected to anything other than whats on earth and our very near surroundings, so to think that we can even begin to comprehend the possibilities is pretty naive.

Talking of belief, yes I believe that I have actually met some aliens! May be there are some on our forums too. Why not? They too need the BH knowledge to go and use on their own planet... or their "people" may needs our money the same way we need the Arabian oil. They could be burning the bank notes to create fuel to run their different types of urges... I believe that paypal is their head office on earth.

How could you do that to me?

srb888 said:

Talking of belief, yes I believe that I have actually met some aliens! May be there are some on our forums too. Why not? They too need the BH knowledge to go and use on their own planet... or their "people" may needs our money the same way we need the Arabian oil. They could be burning the bank notes to create fuel to run their different types of urges... I believe that paypal is their head office on earth.

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well if you guys beleave me or not, i can definetly feel that there is some power ongoing around of us wich isnt human. its something else wich you cant touch or see but its still there. like some universe power you know

madoctopus said:

Extinction in nature literally does not occur. If it does please correct me.

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Darwin disagrees: Extinction Caused by Natural Selection

jazzc said:

Darwin disagrees: Extinction Caused by Natural Selection

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Thanks for the link. Yeah but that is slightly different than extinction caused by somebody by attacking you to extinct you. That's extinction because you don't adapt. If it gets to a point where 2 compete for resources and only one can have the resources or both die, then yeah, it is the law of the jungle.

Even humans if overgrow resources they will drop in population numbers. We increase, we reach a tip and then we abruptly drop. Same with anything. Is a self regulating mechanism of groups.

madoctopus said:

Yeah but that is slightly different than extinction caused by somebody by attacking you to extinct you. That's extinction because you don't adapt.

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They're the same thing.

If some species is attacking another species in order to cause its extinction, the target species will become extinct if it doesn't adapt.

The only difference between the two scenarios is that in one the environment changes much more rapidly.

All extinctions (no matter the scenario) happen when a species doesn't adapt in time to a changing environment.