Dispute against @distopian

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thebotmaker

thebotmaker

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**Proof that the transaction began on BHW:**
https://www.blackhatworld.com/conversations/re-report-bot.28874425/#convMessage-33049992
**Proof the other party has been informed of this Dispute Resolution:**
1704333540314.png

**Proof of Contact:**
https://www.blackhatworld.com/conversations/re-report-bot.28874425/#convMessage-33049992
**Proof of Transaction:**
N/A

**Summary of Dispute:**
I initially offered to create a bot for the user in response to their inquiry on the Instagram/Facebook Bot Mass Report thread. However, they have made additional demands that were not mentioned in the original post. Specifically, they now insist that they won't pay unless the Instagram account gets banned, and they also require proxy support before making any payment. These new conditions were not part of the initial agreement.

**Evidence of the Issue:**
1704333638250.png


He then said this:
1704333822513.png
1704333862408.png

Which is different from the original post below:

1704333735124.png
As you can see, the user made no prior mention of proxies, or the requirement of accounts having to get banned by the tool, which someone with basic common sense would know I can't control as the reports are obviously mass generated. Also , they would know that proxy support etc is something that I can add after payment, but I believe they do not intend to pay regardless which is why I have quickly made the dispute.

**What you hope to gain from this Dispute Resolution:**
While the prototype of the tool didn't take a long time to complete, I don't want others to be taken advantage of as a result of @distopian's lack of business acumen. I seek clarity and a resolution regarding the payment for the bot development. I am willing to fulfill the original agreement but need guidance on how to proceed given the new conditions imposed by the other party.
 

Attachments

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Dispute Request Approved​
Information For The Accused
@distopian, you have 24 hours to respond to this disputes thread. If you do not respond within 24 hours or we note that you're engaging in any other activities on the forum rather than dealing with this dispute, the decision will be made in favour of the dispute starter and you will be permanently banned from Black Hat World. In the event that you're permanently banned from the forum, you may send in a support ticket using our support channel only once you've refunded and/or provided what the plaintiff has requested.

If your responses to this dispute do not remain prompt, your account will be banned.

Information For The Accused & The Dispute Starter
Please remain professional as name calling, insults, griping, tu quoque, and ad hominem will not be tolerated. Should the dispute starter resort to this, the dispute will be forfeit; and if the accused resorts to this, the dispute will automatically be in the dispute starter's favour.

The moderator mediating this dispute is simply trying to fair a resolution to this dispute. Any mod abuse or accusations (e.g., "you're biased", "you're protecting scammers", etc) directed toward the moderator will not be tolerated and may result in an infraction for mod abuse.

Information For Other Members
If anyone else has the same issue with the accused, you may respond so long as you supply evidence in the form of screenshots, videos, etc.

Please bear in mind Dispute Resolution section rule #4 before responding.

"If you are not directly related to the situation, or are not offering information directly related to the situation: do not post in the thread. Anyone caught doing so will receive an infraction and be reply banned from posting in the thread."
 
thebotmaker said:
I seek clarity and a resolution regarding the payment for the bot development. I am willing to fulfill the original agreement but need guidance on how to proceed given the new conditions imposed by the other party.
Click to expand...
This is a little different than our usual disputes considering it's mostly a case of scope creep. Do you think you can provide anything else showing what was originally agreed upon?

I'd also like to hear @distopian's side of the story before making a decision.
 
They've not been online since Thursday. I doubt they'll be online in the next 3 hours, but in the event that they do log in in the next 3 hours and submit a support ticket, we can give them a chance to resolve this issue in this thread.

Dispute Summary​

The accused has been permanently banned from Black Hat World for failing to resolve this dispute.

The dispute thread will remain live and is now open to commentary as rule 4 is no longer enforced in this thread.

Thread Open For Commentary​
 
$100 for such a tool is a treat. it's missing a zero on that price tag. Hopefully, you will get more clients who will respect your time and efforts.

That said, personally I would avoid taking on such projects, especially knowing that reporting account isn't enough for it to be banned easily. That can be searched up here in forums, many have confirmed it.

You should always define deliverables with your clients, e.g.

- bot will do actions X, Y and Z
- the expected outcome is X, Y, Z

And always state that you are not responsible for the business logic outcome, which in this case is "banned account", as engineer you are responsible only for technical side of software so it does exactly what business requirements states: opens accounts via proxies, reports accounts, switches to next one.
 
thebotmaker said:
**Proof that the transaction began on BHW:**
https://www.blackhatworld.com/conversations/re-report-bot.28874425/#convMessage-33049992
**Proof the other party has been informed of this Dispute Resolution:**
View attachment 311133

**Proof of Contact:**
https://www.blackhatworld.com/conversations/re-report-bot.28874425/#convMessage-33049992
**Proof of Transaction:**
N/A

**Summary of Dispute:**
I initially offered to create a bot for the user in response to their inquiry on the Instagram/Facebook Bot Mass Report thread. However, they have made additional demands that were not mentioned in the original post. Specifically, they now insist that they won't pay unless the Instagram account gets banned, and they also require proxy support before making any payment. These new conditions were not part of the initial agreement.

**Evidence of the Issue:**
View attachment 311135


He then said this:
View attachment 311137
View attachment 311138

Which is different from the original post below:

View attachment 311136
As you can see, the user made no prior mention of proxies, or the requirement of accounts having to get banned by the tool, which someone with basic common sense would know I can't control as the reports are obviously mass generated. Also , they would know that proxy support etc is something that I can add after payment, but I believe they do not intend to pay regardless which is why I have quickly made the dispute.

**What you hope to gain from this Dispute Resolution:**
While the prototype of the tool didn't take a long time to complete, I don't want others to be taken advantage of as a result of @distopian's lack of business acumen. I seek clarity and a resolution regarding the payment for the bot development. I am willing to fulfill the original agreement but need guidance on how to proceed given the new conditions imposed by the other party.
Click to expand...
bro, this issue is your fault...
a new member with ONE single post you work for free?!
you are looking at getting taken advantage bro

for newbies, ask payment upfront, else no job and time is wasted

plenty of freebie seekers asking for job first and then payment and then they all waste time like in the OP :/
 
lucky.sparks said:
$100 for such a tool is a treat. it's missing a zero on that price tag. Hopefully, you will get more clients who will respect your time and efforts.

That said, personally I would avoid taking on such projects, especially knowing that reporting account isn't enough for it to be banned easily. That can be searched up here in forums, many have confirmed it.

You should always define deliverables with your clients, e.g.

- bot will do actions X, Y and Z
- the expected outcome is X, Y, Z

And always state that you are not responsible for the business logic outcome, which in this case is "banned account", as engineer you are responsible only for technical side of software so it does exactly what business requirements states: opens accounts via proxies, reports accounts, switches to next one.
Click to expand...
Definitely, how do you go about acquiring clients?
 
thebotmaker said:
Definitely, how do you go about acquiring clients?
Click to expand...
I would suggest stopping selling your time, instead try to use your skills to build something that would bring more revenue over a longer period of time.

Your username suggests you can make bots.

So why not make bots that sell for you?

Products or services from ClickBank and any CPA offers from well-known networks.

There are plenty of JV too where people are looking for engineers who can help with their business growth.

My choice would be for any products that offer recurring revenue streams so when your traffic method dies out, revenue is still flowing.
 
lucky.sparks said:
I would suggest stopping selling your time, instead try to use your skills to build something that would bring more revenue over a longer period of time.

Your username suggests you can make bots.

So why not make bots that sell for you?

Products or services from ClickBank and any CPA offers from well-known networks.

There are plenty of JV too where people are looking for engineers who can help with their business growth.

My choice would be for any products that offer recurring revenue streams so when your traffic method dies out, revenue is still flowing.
Click to expand...
Gmail or any email/account-creating bots are always needed... Could easily run those as monthly subscription-based services, and the forum lacks of such products at the moment.

But I guess skill level comes into play with this too.
 
Sounds like negative seo but on social media.

A type of project that is meant to hurt a small business owner.

Better do something to rank and utilize the power of corporation (social media site). 5000 fake accounts really wouldn't hurt such a giant.

Report spam and takedown of competition is just not worth it. It rarely works and is just fighting against someone weak.
 
lucky.sparks said:
$100 for such a tool is a treat. it's missing a zero on that price tag. Hopefully, you will get more clients who will respect your time and efforts.

That said, personally I would avoid taking on such projects, especially knowing that reporting account isn't enough for it to be banned easily. That can be searched up here in forums, many have confirmed it.

You should always define deliverables with your clients, e.g.

- bot will do actions X, Y and Z
- the expected outcome is X, Y, Z

And always state that you are not responsible for the business logic outcome, which in this case is "banned account", as engineer you are responsible only for technical side of software so it does exactly what business requirements states: opens accounts via proxies, reports accounts, switches to next one.
Click to expand...
I wanted to work as a developer for some time. But I just couldn't fucking NOT focus on business results. I'm too obsessed with it.

If I know the project is pure nonsense business wise, my head goes crazy and I get anxious.

I was ranting a lot about SaaS model. It's literally millions of hours wasted to code something nobody will use. Plus devs will be fired at the end due to lack of revenue.
 
reaaski said:
I wanted to work as a developer for some time. But I just couldn't fucking NOT focus on business results. I'm too obsessed with it.

If I know the project is pure nonsense business wise, my head goes crazy and I get anxious.

I was ranting a lot about SaaS model. It's literally millions of hours wasted to code something nobody will use. Plus devs will be fired at the end due to lack of revenue.
Click to expand...
Need to go all american way: sell first, build later.

You can test ideas with simple landing pages and credit card submit form which wont work, just HTML site.

Add trackers, any free one will do, e.g. google analytics, set goals in it, e.g. CC button click.

Then try to get 100 clicks on that button, if you succeed, you have working idea to build.
 
lucky.sparks said:
Need to go all american way: sell first, build later.

You can test ideas with simple landing pages and credit card submit form which wont work, just HTML site.

Add trackers, any free one will do, e.g. google analytics, set goals in it, e.g. CC button click.

Then try to get 100 clicks on that button, if you succeed, you have working idea to build.
Click to expand...
Yes. But that's not a job but a venture.
 
thebotmaker said:
Definitely, how do you go about acquiring clients?
Click to expand...
I would personally not work without 50% advance payment, unless the member is pretty well known here (and a paid member, which would mean they are serious about their membership here). Sorry for your loss man.

The price itself was insanely low too. I would never ever do such a bot for that price. But you do you. :)
 
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lucky.sparks said:
Isnt being part of this community mean you are in desire for a venture instead of a regular job?
Click to expand...
Fear... Opinions. The older I am, the less I care about them. Influence of other people... Shouldn't exist. I'm learning how to go my own way. Not easy.
 
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