Darker than BlackHat : What is this method?

BlackMu said:
Thank you for replying, but didn't you have any issue with the commission approval
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You can funnel all the traffic to one legit funnel page. My Amazon Account Manager even said, this isn't a problem, they accept SEM as well, and this isn't too different. The problematic domains itself don't have anything to do with amazon content - they are just there for the search engines.
I cloak for the search engines - not amazon - and simply 301 the traffic to legit pages. So the click to amazon is not cloaked. The EPC is about 5-7 cents per click to amz, wich is a pretty solid income, when you get in the 10k clicks per day regions.
 
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Always looked into it, never pulled it off. Maybe because people are so pissy about everything here in Germany, or I am just too chicken :anyway:

It seems to me that those cloaked spam sites have been invading Google for years now, just when everyone said that the method is dead. Seems to work like clockwork!

What always puzzles me is that most of these sites seem to redirect to gambling and scammy "dating" offers. Wouldn't it be smarter to show visitors something more niche specific?
 
Bugfisch said:
You can funnel all the traffic to one legit funnel page. My Amazon Account Manager even said, this isn't a problem, they accept SEM as well, and this isn't too different. The problematic domains itself don't have anything to do with amazon content - they are just there for the search engines.
I cloak for the search engines - not amazon - and simply 301 the traffic to legit pages. So the click to amazon is not cloaked. The EPC is about 5-7 cents per click to amz, wich is a pretty solid income, when you get in the 10k clicks per day regions.
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Do you mean amazon don't see a problem if you use cloaking or a redirect from a fake site to a legit one?
Each time I used a redirect from a dummy site to my legit site, they end up spotting it and ban my account.
I didnt have an "amazon account manager" though, you might be a big fish to be able to keep swimming in their pool of cash :)
 
PatJustPat said:
Wouldn't it be smarter to show visitors something more niche specific?
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You need large amount of keywords to rank for and there is a big point:
You will have to coordinate the target with your keywords. Let's say, we take the travel category:
You can't just send em to booking.com, but to a relevant subpage. You will have to find this subpage, do datawork and most people don't do that.
Casino and partly adult can just be used to throw users on one single landing page.

You can build a kind of stupid system like this pretty easy and mostly on html base - this might be the reason, why most spammers go in there.

AND:
You often get lifetime provisions in those niches. Wich keeps the income more stable, when the projects are burning down, even though your direct epc might be lower.
 
Bugfisch said:
Bing and it's "relative" Search Engines like DuckDuckGo are even more important ;)
And of course, I'm cloaking like hell, but you can't avoid bots with manipulated user agent and Proxies. I'm collecting IPs and blocking those that are pretty sure bots automated.

But as said - when google and bing alone start crawling some thousend domains á 500k pages, this can quickly get dirty and hurt the DB or the API - the webserver isn't the problem most of the times. But it's doable with good hardware and one server.
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How do you go about spamming bing? They deindex my sitea if i post a lot. Could you help me?
 
M4DM4X said:
Do you mean amazon don't see a problem if you use cloaking or a redirect from a fake site to a legit one?
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Well, it seems to be a bit different from country to country and in the standard programm, they are pretty harsh. At around 10k€ provision per month, you might get an account manager and India doesn't look on your account anymore, wich makes things much easier.
The thing is, that its not agains amazon rules, to redirect to one of your pages. They don't care about the existence of these pages, if they don't have any amazon connection anyway. But India might ask, if they see the other pages in the refferers, you should clear them of course and look, that your legit site only will appear in it. But you might have to sneak through and grow big fast, to get out of the Indian standard "support" and get actually people to talk to. ;)
 
Razorbl2 said:
How do you go about spamming bing? They deindex my sitea if i post a lot.
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Yeah, they do, I can't avoid it, too. But they rank like crazy in a weired sandbox for 2-4 days after getting indexed some thousend pages.
This is the timeframe, bing makes you money ;)
You just need to earn more, than your domain costs.
 
Bugfisch said:
Yeah, they do, I can't avoid it, too. But they rank like crazy in a weired sandbox for 2-4 days after getting indexed some thousend pages.
This is the timeframe, bing makes you money ;)
You just need to earn more, than your domain costs.
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Ok, so thats not just me :) What about indexing? Using instant indexing or what?
 
Razorbl2 said:
Using instant indexing or what?
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No, Webmaster Console and Sitemaps. Is about complicated - I have ~15k bing accounts by now, but since the API works fine, this is a good thing for getting a lot of domains indexed on auto-mode ;)
I have this cloudflare option on, as well, but I didn't see an effect yet. Perhaps I block their bots or something =D
 
Bugfisch said:
No, Webmaster Console and Sitemaps. Is about complicated - I have ~15k bing accounts by now, but since the API works fine, this is a good thing for getting a lot of domains indexed on auto-mode ;)
I have this cloudflare option on, as well, but I didn't see an effect yet. Perhaps I block their bots or something =D
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Ok thank you. Also I noticed honeymoon effect on google for 1-3 days after indexing, get some traffic out of it. Tested on low traffic keywords, like 1.5 k uniques per day for two days
 

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Razorbl2 said:
Also I noticed honeymoon effect on google for 1-3 days after indexing
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Yeah, in my theory, they do it to bypass the algo-paradoxon:
The Algo can only know, what good content for a topic was, not what it will be. It can't rate news or changes. It can't stay up to date.
Therefore it puts serps in this honeymoon, just to avoid ignoring latest content, because it would rate it wrong.
 
even if they earned for short time then also its high enough $ for 3-4 months but whats the method no one knows eactly if anyone can even reveal it he wont reveal fully what its actually is and earn for himself
 
KHer0 said:
Well, you definitely sound too clever for such newbie account. It's exactly that. You will need 10$/domain + the hosting cost .. so, you need to risk 10-20K to pull something like this off. This is the only sole challenge in this method. The Money!
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I don't active here, but joined this forum 7 years ago, and i do have some experience

Bugfisch said:
The disks aren't even the problem - you can build a centerlized dynamic setup. One server hosts 30k of my domains without problems - the only problem is that the search engines tend to ddos it, when they crawl hard =D
the whole setup needs about 200GB on disk. I recommence saving the data (scraped texts, sitemaps and the big stuff) compressed, wich saves space and db bandwith. zstd works great for me.
But as said, the traffic is a problem - you will need to block unwanted bots like crazy, you will need a good amount of ram and some cores, to handle all the stuff and a 10 Gbit/s port helps as well.
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"One server hosts 30k of my domains without problems"
>> That's a big number right there. No offense, but i thought you'd know better

>> 1 big server hosting many sites, and when it has problems all will down. And what if i need 20-30 Gbps, i don't need to check prices to know 20-30 vps will be cheaper than one with a huge port

>> Compressed scraped text?? And what's the plan to use it?? Uncompress for each request?? That'll hurt your cpu :D
Beside, dicks are cheap, you don't have to save it, throw some TB there, just in case

>> The "big dicks" i was talking about are for cache, you'll never handle real traffic without it. Either generated static page, or nginx cache, your whole site are cached, so you don't need strong servers with high specs, except for fast & big dicks

>> You can block all fake bots using cloudflare, faking user_agent won't work. You can also block all legit bots (except google, bing if you like) with it too.
Hint: known bots or verified bots
 
windovv said:
I don't active here, but joined this forum 7 years ago, and i do have some experience



"One server hosts 30k of my domains without problems"
>> That's a big number right there. No offense, but i thought you'd know better

>> 1 big server hosting many sites, and when it has problems all will down. And what if i need 20-30 Gbps, i don't need to check prices to know 20-30 vps will be cheaper than one with a huge port

>> Compressed scraped text?? And what's the plan to use it?? Uncompress for each request?? That'll hurt your cpu :D
Beside, dicks are cheap, you don't have to save it, throw some TB there, just in case

>> The "big dicks" i was talking about are for cache, you'll never handle real traffic without it. Either generated static page, or nginx cache, your whole site are cached, so you don't need strong servers with high specs, except for fast & big dicks

>> You can block all fake bots using cloudflare, faking user_agent won't work. You can also block all legit bots (except google, bing if you like) with it too.
Hint: known bots or verified bots
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I get your point - and I do use cloudflare, even with paid plan and I did split it up in the past as well. It helps for sure, but still a lot stuff is getting through.
But I came to the conclusion - and this might be just a factor for my very own setup:
I'm regenerating most domains every 5 days, so I have to generate some thousend domains per day. Splitting it up too much - like with static files - can be done, I use a dedicated Generator Server before. But I switched to an API based modell lately, because it's just more performant and flexible.
And I need one powerhouse, to get some data things done quickly. And I'm not classical hosting'em on the server, more a wildcard setup with all domains just using the same API and webserver.
If you go with static html, splitting it on a number of VPS is the better option, for sure - perhaps with one medium server to controll everything. It was just not optimal for my usecase ;)
And yeah, compression gave a performance boost, since the API does the decompressing stuff - in cost of some CPU power, but we talk about a max CPU ussage of 5% by the API (tbh, my CPU is a bit overpowered anyway xD) - but it did give a lot of speed to the mongoDB, saved about 200ms ttfb. BTW - switching to a Python API from direct PHP DB requests was very usefull as well, since the PHP MongoDB driver really sucks in performance.
I still do have a backup server, jumping in if needed of course and the webserver is routed on different VPS, wich just host the PHP stuff ;)

nginx cache is activated, but not really usefull, because:
I have basicly billions of single pages, wich mostly only get Search Engine visits once or twice. And they need to get unique content for these. Caching all of em is not usefull - I cache the User Pages, wich get way less requests but they aren't the problem.

The prices might be cheaper if you're going static and dont need dynamic stuff. Otherwise you will need to get a little bit power in the VPS as well and we land at perhaps the same price range. But as said:
For statics, this is a nobrainer, go VPS, there are even nice free VPS services one could register some and have a whole free setup =D
 
There are some quality posts here, nicely done.

Since im not a server guy, this discussion is really informative.
 
@Bugfisch @windovv

I never generated website pages in millions as alI I like being in total control, so won't be much helpful with such huge setups. But, I always take @Bugfisch approach. I prefer hosting everything related thing on one server and buy extra power as needed. Much easier to handle, I even try to put as much domains on a multisite structure instead of different domains. So, one php file to control all the websites.

And finally, god only knows how much I tried to use Cloudflare, but no matter what, I end up removing it. My website is always faster without it and easier to handle.
 
KHer0 said:
@Bugfisch @windovv

I never generated website pages in millions as alI I like being in total control, so won't be much helpful with such huge setups. But, I always take @Bugfisch approach. I prefer hosting everything related thing on one server and buy extra power as needed. Much easier to handle, I even try to put as much domains on a multisite structure instead of different domains. So, one php file to control all the websites.

And finally, god only knows how much I tried to use Cloudflare, but no matter what, I end up removing it. My website is always faster without it and easier to handle.
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Then you've not deal with scale yet, or even small flood from competitors. Just do some quick 404 error test, and all your site will be significant slower (response time 3-5 sec): fire some scripts request your site with different random URIs (to get 404 pages), with about 4 request/s (to avoid rate limit, if you have any), may be 5 scripts will make all request timeout.

There're ssh clients that can run many commands, scripts, macros all at once across all your servers.

Using nginx cache your sites are still dynamic to some degree, you don't have to generate static page in your backend, just config nginx to expired caches after like 7-30 days, after that they'll be removed automatically (to save space). And if you want to "refresh" your site immediately, just change the cache config to bypass or no_cache
 
Knowing that it works, it now needs someone on here with an understanding of this, to explain fully so we all have a chance . Good article, makes you think!...and dream.
 
Andy105 said:
Knowing that it works, it now needs someone on here with an understanding of this, to explain fully so we all have a chance . Good article, makes you think!...and dream.
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We already did, more than once !
 
Bugfisch said:
I get your point - and I do use cloudflare, even with paid plan and I did split it up in the past as well. It helps for sure, but still a lot stuff is getting through.
But I came to the conclusion - and this might be just a factor for my very own setup:
I'm regenerating most domains every 5 days, so I have to generate some thousend domains per day. Splitting it up too much - like with static files - can be done, I use a dedicated Generator Server before. But I switched to an API based modell lately, because it's just more performant and flexible.
And I need one powerhouse, to get some data things done quickly. And I'm not classical hosting'em on the server, more a wildcard setup with all domains just using the same API and webserver.
If you go with static html, splitting it on a number of VPS is the better option, for sure - perhaps with one medium server to controll everything. It was just not optimal for my usecase ;)
And yeah, compression gave a performance boost, since the API does the decompressing stuff - in cost of some CPU power, but we talk about a max CPU ussage of 5% by the API (tbh, my CPU is a bit overpowered anyway xD) - but it did give a lot of speed to the mongoDB, saved about 200ms ttfb. BTW - switching to a Python API from direct PHP DB requests was very usefull as well, since the PHP MongoDB driver really sucks in performance.
I still do have a backup server, jumping in if needed of course and the webserver is routed on different VPS, wich just host the PHP stuff ;)

nginx cache is activated, but not really usefull, because:
I have basicly billions of single pages, wich mostly only get Search Engine visits once or twice. And they need to get unique content for these. Caching all of em is not usefull - I cache the User Pages, wich get way less requests but they aren't the problem.

The prices might be cheaper if you're going static and dont need dynamic stuff. Otherwise you will need to get a little bit power in the VPS as well and we land at perhaps the same price range. But as said:
For statics, this is a nobrainer, go VPS, there are even nice free VPS services one could register some and have a whole free setup =D
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How do you optimize content for bing? Are you generating highly spun unreadable content, or what?
 
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