Can he claim a refund PP?

Pepemakingmony said:

PP covers digital goods!

Click to expand...

I think you have read the statement from paypal " We cover digital good now " its a total lie, if you don't believe me : Buy a digital as a seller ,state in the payment its digital good, ask for refund , you will see you will lose the dispute

martingalepro said:

I think you have read the statement from paypal " We cover digital good now " its a total lie, if you don't believe me : Buy a digital as a seller ,state in the payment its digital good, ask for refund , you will see you will lose the dispute

Click to expand...

Why in the world a worldwide busisness like PP will lie haha

martingalepro said:

Paypal doenst cover digital good, if the buyer state in his payment something like " Im buying digital good" he will lose the dispute

Click to expand...

Paypal does cover digital goods now. I have had refunds for digital goods, namely FB accounts.

Pepemakingmony said:

Why in the world a worldwide busisness like PP will lie haha

Click to expand...

PayPal is the biggest scam on internet
Why will they do this? the real question is: except you, who will care if you lose your dispute?
No one, Paypal will even take a fee for it and have a satisfied buyer who will use paypal again and again
The same user will pay on websites with paypal (so they take their payment fees)
etc etc
Paypal know that 99% of the sellers need their solution, so they make their own rules.
the best legal scam

c4labs said:

PayPal is the biggest scam on internet
Why will they do this? the real question is: except you, who will care if you lose your dispute?
No one, Paypal will even take a fee for it and have a satisfied buyer who will use paypal again and again
The same user will pay on websites with paypal (so they take their payment fees)
etc etc
Paypal know that 99% of the sellers need their solution, so they make their own rules.
the best legal scam

Click to expand...

Man you are right PP sucks even if i didnt have any problem with them.

I wish everyone had BTC and i can deal with it

You are first selling digital goods and asking if you'll win the dispute? It's common sense, you will always lose if it's digital goods. "Physical goods" where you can provide a tracking number that the buyer actually received = auto win. Just think about it

This is the reason why you should stop accepting paypal payments ,Often we all get scammed and paypal helps thief and they get away with it easily

You could easily win this case..

source: I sold a single account, and won the case with proper proof. Such as emails,messages, etc.

Alex D. said:

No, you can't. If the service is legit and seller can provide the proof of delivered product then he has a bigger chance to win the case.

Click to expand...

Legit companies have trouble doing that since, you get them to slip up and tell you to close the dispute and that means you automatically win(can't tell people to close the dispute out of PayPal)

If you want to win majority of dispute from scammers for digital goods :

- Provide a tracking number, you just need to send a letter with something inside ( a paper with the username and the password of the account ...)
- Provide an invoice ( From paypal) with your TOS ( no refund, digital good...)
- Take a video of your account at the moment of the transaction ( In this way the buyer cannot tell you its not as described)
- You tell to the buyer to click on the button " product delivered " there is something like this on paypal I think

You will probably win majority of the dispute, but :

- The buyer can use a VPN and tell to paypal that its an unauthorized transaction, you cant do anything against that, you will always lose the dispute, but if paypal cover digital good, you will get refunded by paypal ( Im not sure)

- Buyer can chargeback with their credit card : You will lose your money , the only thing you can do is call their bank and tell them that he use his credit card to scam people

bartoska said:

If you want to win majority of dispute from scammers for digital goods :

- Provide a tracking number, you just need to send a letter with something inside ( a paper with the username and the password of the account ...)
- Provide an invoice ( From paypal) with your TOS ( no refund, digital good...)
- Take a video of your account at the moment of the transaction ( In this way the buyer cannot tell you its not as described)
- You tell to the buyer to click on the button " product delivered " there is something like this on paypal I think

You will probably win majority of the dispute, but :

- The buyer can use a VPN and tell to paypal that its an unauthorized transaction, you cant do anything against that, you will always lose the dispute, but if paypal cover digital good, you will get refunded by paypal ( Im not sure)

- Buyer can chargeback with their credit card : You will lose your money , the only thing you can do is call their bank and tell them that he use his credit card to scam people

Click to expand...

Fuck PayPal

Megagnar said:

You are first selling digital goods and asking if you'll win the dispute? It's common sense, you will always lose if it's digital goods. "Physical goods" where you can provide a tracking number that the buyer actually received = auto win. Just think about it

Click to expand...

Well, I can tell you that even major e-retailers selling physical goods are scammed by friendly fraudsters. I will not disclose a big name (starting with Zalan...) on the european market for shoes/fashion but I know someone dealing with disputes and they are scammed even if the person signed the package receipt, 3DS, etc. This merchant can process up to 1B€ per year with paypal... so imagine the relationship with paypal at this level..they are still garbage

Most of the cases, you will win if you sell physical goods, however, when the user is trying to rip you off, they will not use the reason "Good not received" but another reason which makes it more complicated.

bartoska said:

You will probably win majority of the dispute, but :
- The buyer can use a VPN and tell to paypal that its an unauthorized transaction, you cant do anything against that, you will always lose the dispute, but if paypal cover digital good, you will get refunded by paypal ( Im not sure)
- Buyer can chargeback with their credit card : You will lose your money , the only thing you can do is call their bank and tell them that he use his credit card to scam people

Click to expand...

A VPN is spotted by all providers on the market and you can even see if its the same device (device fingerprints), PayPal can see it and will ask to the client why he used a VPN but the same device, the user just needs to bullshit.
You will never get your money back by contacting the bank of the cardholder because THE SAME BANK initiated the chargeback on behalf of their unhappy customers and won = THEIR client is happy now, they do not care about merchants.

The online payment ecosystem was made by banks for banks, it means that the merchants will always pay for all the parties involved in the process (banks, acquirers, psps, cardholders, etc.)

As everyone mentioned, buyer winning the case chance is 99.99999999%. Whatever prooof you provide, they still favor the buyer

Paypal is always Buyer friendly..!!!

Pepemakingmony said:

Someone ordered me 100 instagram accounts, I maked them as we agreed but at the time of logging in some have been banned

I delivered the 100 accounts as agreed, who would win in case of dispute?

I dont care to replace the accs its just curiosity...

Click to expand...

This is why you don't sell accounts in bulk. Make smaller packages like 10 accounts for $xx. It will be easier for you too to provide replacements as in this case you should do it and if you are unable to provide replacement let's say for 10 orders x 10 accounts maybe you will be able to fix 5 orders for 5 batches x 10 accounts and refund half of the amount.

c4labs said:

Well, I can tell you that even major e-retailers selling physical goods are scammed by friendly fraudsters. I will not disclose a big name (starting with Zalan...) on the european market for shoes/fashion but I know someone dealing with disputes and they are scammed even if the person signed the package receipt, 3DS, etc. This merchant can process up to 1B€ per year with paypal... so imagine the relationship with paypal at this level..they are still garbage

Most of the cases, you will win if you sell physical goods, however, when the user is trying to rip you off, they will not use the reason "Good not received" but another reason which makes it more complicated.



A VPN is spotted by all providers on the market and you can even see if its the same device (device fingerprints), PayPal can see it and will ask to the client why he used a VPN but the same device, the user just needs to bullshit.
You will never get your money back by contacting the bank of the cardholder because THE SAME BANK initiated the chargeback on behalf of their unhappy customers and won = THEIR client is happy now, they do not care about merchants.

The online payment ecosystem was made by banks for banks, it means that the merchants will always pay for all the parties involved in the process (banks, acquirers, psps, cardholders, etc.)

Click to expand...

You probably doesnt understand, when I said " You can just contact their bank" , I mean you can contact their bank to tell them what he do, but you won't get a refund for sure

c4labs said:

Well, I can tell you that even major e-retailers selling physical goods are scammed by friendly fraudsters. I will not disclose a big name (starting with Zalan...) on the european market for shoes/fashion but I know someone dealing with disputes and they are scammed even if the person signed the package receipt, 3DS, etc. This merchant can process up to 1B€ per year with paypal... so imagine the relationship with paypal at this level..they are still garbage

Most of the cases, you will win if you sell physical goods, however, when the user is trying to rip you off, they will not use the reason "Good not received" but another reason which makes it more complicated.



A VPN is spotted by all providers on the market and you can even see if its the same device (device fingerprints), PayPal can see it and will ask to the client why he used a VPN but the same device, the user just needs to bullshit.
You will never get your money back by contacting the bank of the cardholder because THE SAME BANK initiated the chargeback on behalf of their unhappy customers and won = THEIR client is happy now, they do not care about merchants.

The online payment ecosystem was made by banks for banks, it means that the merchants will always pay for all the parties involved in the process (banks, acquirers, psps, cardholders, etc.)

Click to expand...

Most of scammers use residential proxy with incognito mode for browser, i got scammed in this way by a kid

Pepemakingmony said:

Someone ordered me 100 instagram accounts, I maked them as we agreed but at the time of logging in some have been banned

I delivered the 100 accounts as agreed, who would win in case of dispute?

I dont care to replace the accs its just curiosity...

Click to expand...

buyer have always authority to claim refund any time for 6 months and for right now PP have no proper sorting method of this

bartoska said:

You probably doesnt understand, when I said " You can just contact their bank" , I mean you can contact their bank to tell them what he do, but you won't get a refund for sure

Click to expand...

I understood it, no worries and I told you that the cardholder bank asked to dispute the payment to the acquirer (and PSP so PayPal) and they do not care if their clients are scamming because...you are usually not their clients . They will prefer to avoid any trouble for their clients. Also, the bank manager dealing with the chargeback does not know anything about the online business and our world. He/she will be focused on maintaining a good customer satisfaction.

However, some banks started to limit the number of disputes allowed per card/per client. Its not to protect merchants, its just to limit the manual check and work for their employees. The other way around, banks started to increase the fees when you want to dispute payments.

martingalepro said:

Most of scammers use residential proxy with incognito mode for browser, i got scammed in this way by a kid

Click to expand...

Yes of course, I was just saying that the PSP has the information about the proxy/vpn/etc., they can know that its connected to the same machine (each machine has a unique fingerprint)
Then, its another topic when the PSP has the info but does not use it to help the merchant to win disputes (like PayPal)

PayPal is very different than another provider, because they created their own dispute management system. It means that users will usually prefer to open a dispute than going to their banks, PayPal abuses this system to charge the merchants even if the REAL payment was not disputed like a normal payment provider. (so costless for them).

I worked a lot with them in my previous jobs and I found that they have a special "rating system" for some merchants and disputes. When you complain and point out that they are making mistakes on disputes and too many cases were lost unfairly, they will make you win more cases for a short period of time and then you will go back to a normal mediocre rate. Thats how to handle merchant requests and keep their relationships with companies.
With disputes, they are charging a lot of fees and making a lot of profits.

PayPal will always tell you that you have the choice to not use them