Cali Didn't Pass Prop 19!!!!

i think he means it as in

more "what the government considers taboo" type things could be talked about and maybe

able to pass since some of the US laws are outdated.
 
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See I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis 5 months ago. And yes I am not as severe as he is, in which it is an absolute shame how devastating this disease can be. Millions are effected daily. I feel for this guy knowing that my situation can end up like that. Marijuana for medicinal purposes can be a great thing that help with not just MS but a lot of illnesses.

But for legalizing it as a whole, it is such a tough question. I have smoked before and I know from personal experience that I can't function after it. I felt like a lump. I also know for some that they can function to the extreme and not bother them at all.

I guess the real question or answer behind it is "What will America be like in 20 years?" We are already falling behind. More and more kids are not caring, some teachers don't give a damn besides having weekends, holidays and summers off, the caliber of respect and old american traditions have declined.

So yes marijuana may not effect all but it still does effect some. This country has become a free for all based upon hollywood beliefs, and its not getting any better.

WhiskerBiscuit said:
tell that to this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEOoa6Q4Bds&feature=player_embedded
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dshad said:
I don't know if it would be a better future. I highly doubt it matter of fact.
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Well again, it's SOMEWHAT. I think there would be an initial shock to the public (more people trying the product) and a shock the gang world who depend on grow-ops. After some time passes I'm sure it'll be better regulated, stimulate the economy and it'll balance itself - of course though there would be a lot more people smoking when they shouldn't though.

It's really a coin-toss that could go either way - all depends on our reaction to it.
 
honestly LEGALIZING MaryJane esp for JUST Medicinal Purposes would be counter productive to the CounterCulter (I smoke and im saying this) Heres why:

Everyone wants it legalized or at the very least MMJ=Medical maryjane.

Even if they just put it for medicinal use it opens up a whole bunch of BS. Now Instead of getting pulled over and just having some pot on you, you are now in possession of a medical narcotic w/ out a prescription which is actually worse than just getting busted with a half o of pot.

It would be put in the same classification of oxycodene/oxycodin at this point. At least this is how the government thinks and it would STILL regulate and STILL make it a crime to possess so they will still **** you over either way.

And lets face it. It will never be legal NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU CRY ABOUT ALCOHOL. Government just sees potheads trying to get pot legal and there only defense is "WELL ALCOHOL IS LEGAL"

Sure but have you ever looked into how the laws were written to make alcohol or cigs LEGAL?

Once they stop bitching and crying that alcohol is legal and pot isnt, and start looking into how the law is ACTUALLY WRITTEN and follow the same template it will NEVER be legal like alcohol or cigs is.


Just this potheads 2.0
 
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e-thugery at it's finest.

that was a huge compliation of baseless claims. your pulling at any straw you can get. its like a verbal battle with a five year old. "dick rocket" really? :p

oh and saying "piss off this forum and go join a chruch" is a blatant implication that you feel bhw and church don't mix.

misspelling idiot is probably the worst thing you could do when calling someone an idiot. it proves the only idiot is the one dishing it out.

craigslistguy said:
*Sigh*

im curious to know where i said people on "bhw dont go to chruch"? Please point that out.............thought so. If you cant figure out what i was implying then maybe you really are as SLOW as everyone makes you out to be :/ but BRAVO big fella you got me on a misspelling. Way to go


And stop fighting someone elses battles you dick rocket
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Its not about Americans being pussies, Its about parents not teaching their kids right from wrong.

It is the wrong upbringing that is causing the kids to act out, not games.
 
fun4uoc said:
Oh, I forgot to mention that it is basically legal in California now anyways. Arnold signed a bill that makes possession of less than an ounce an infraction, so its basically like getting a speeding ticket.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/arno...bill-decriminalizing-marijuana-in-california/
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Yes I know about this and I think it's a good thing, it saves the state tons of money.

craigslistguy said:
honestly LEGALIZING MaryJane esp for JUST Medicinal Purposes would be counter productive to the CounterCulter (I smoke and im saying this) Heres why:

Everyone wants it legalized or at the very least MMJ=Medical maryjane.

Even if they just put it for medicinal use it opens up a whole bunch of BS. Now Instead of getting pulled over and just having some pot on you, you are now in possession of a medical narcotic w/ out a prescription which is actually worse than just getting busted with a half o of pot.

It would be put in the same classification of oxycodene/oxycodin at this point. At least this is how the government thinks and it would STILL regulate and STILL make it a crime to possess so they will still **** you over either way.

And lets face it. It will never be legal NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU CRY ABOUT ALCOHOL. Government just sees potheads trying to get pot legal and there only defense is "WELL ALCOHOL IS LEGAL"

Sure but have you ever looked into how the laws were written to make alcohol or cigs LEGAL?

Once they stop bitching and crying that alcohol is legal and pot isnt, and start looking into how the law is ACTUALLY WRITTEN and follow the same template it will NEVER be legal like alcohol or cigs is.


Just this potheads 2.0
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I see what you'r saying, but the argument that there is not argument to make mj illegal is irrelevant. There doesn't need a reason for something to be legal, there need to be a reason for something to be illegal. Everything is legal until you make it illegal. There is no good reason for criminalization of mj.

math182 said:
Moderation is the key
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Agreed

xplicit said:
Its not about Americans being pussies, Its about parents not teaching their kids right from wrong.

It is the wrong upbringing that is causing the kids to act out, not games.
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Yeah, you have a really good point. That's ultimately what's going to make the difference whether it's legal or not anyways.

@Everyone
Basically, my views on this is just because it is somewhat unhealthy, maybe makes you less productive, and has small effects on short term memory doesn't mean it should be illegal. Happy meals make you fat, give you diabetes, heart problems, and possibly mad cow disease depending if that's going around, not to mention most mcdonalds are sometimes unsanitary. That's unhealthy, but who's saying that should be illegal? (except for san francisco) NOBODY! Because it shouldn't be illegal!!!!!(SF is another example of ppl being pussies, if you don't like Happy Meals don't buy them) Just because something is bad for you doesn't mean it should be illegal. You aren't hurting anyone so who cares? Meth on the other hand will drive people to literally go out and hurt people to get money for it, so that can understandably be illegal. But weed shouldn't be. I'm not sure about this but I believe most poisonous plants aren't illegal. Surely death is worse that getting high.


I just think it comes down to whether you think the government has the right/should tell us what we can or cannot do to ourselves. As a person who doesn't exactly want the government in my beezwax if you know what I'm saying, I want them to NOT be able to tell me what to do, unless I'm hurting someone of course.
So what are your guys opinion, do you think the gov should tell us what we can do?
 
$$Money$$ said:
Cannabis isn't the product used for clothing/paper and such. That's hemp, which is illegal JUST because it's related to weed.
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Actually that isn't true. People can import hemp products fine, you just cannot cultivate it in america. You can still buy hemp products anywhere in the USA. And I will tell you now, the "Miracle Fabric" type talk that seems to revolve around hemp is just pure hype. I really don't get why people are talking about. You can already buy hemp products, and IMO the fabric isn't that great. I have a few shirts and pants made out of hemp, and they are a really rough fabric that seem to get holes just as easy as cotton. It is around the same price as a pair of jeans.

As for medicinal purposes. You can buy marijuana extract products, that perform the same as smoking a bit of the bud on MS patients. At the moment I know of one that you squirt underneath your tounge. The only issue with it now is that it is too expensive. Eventually the price will decrease as more people use it, and the goverment will likely subsidies it in the future. But to say that our only option for medical MJ is to sell buds is just silly at best.

I'll tell you now why people voted no on prob 19. It's because people don't do themselves any favors by bragging about the stupid shit they do while they are high, or posting on youtube them hitting a bong. If it was just a silent drug, something like E or party pills, that you just take and enjoy and don't need to tell your friends how you didn't choke, then it would have more success. Regardless of any benefits, it is illegal now, and people who want it legal need to convince the naysayers why it should not be, not the other way around.
 
pyronaut said:
Regardless of any benefits, it is illegal now, and people who want it legal need to convince the naysayers why it should not be, not the other way around.
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Yes, that is true because it is illegal so obviously if you want to change that you would have to convince people to do so. However, the fundamental question of whether it SHOULD be illegal or not does not need a strong argument on the legalization side but the criminalization side does needs a strong argument. For example, say that I created a software that allowed me to predict stock prices very accurately. That would be legal as all things are naturally (before they become illegal). I would not need an argument for it to be legal. However, if people had a problem with it and wanted it to be illegal, they would need to have a good argument as to why it should be illegal. This can be applied to any law, like for example rights for african americans. States used to be able to stop them from voting and was legal at one point (you can argue that they did it anyway after it was illegal, but that's not when I'm talking about). It wasn't illegal to stop them from voting (i.e. literacy tests, fees, etc.) until a case was presented and a law was passed because they had a good argument. MJ on the other hand doesn't have a strong argument, for it to be illegal, and is illegal for no good reason so as you said naysayers do need to be convinced, however, fundamentally it should never have been illegal in the first place.... if that makes any sense at all...
 
LiamLC said:
Yes, that is true because it is illegal so obviously if you want to change that you would have to convince people to do so. However, the fundamental question of whether it SHOULD be illegal or not does not need a strong argument on the legalization side but the criminalization side does needs a strong argument. For example, say that I created a software that allowed me to predict stock prices very accurately. That would be legal as all things are naturally (before they become illegal). I would not need an argument for it to be legal. However, if people had a problem with it and wanted it to be illegal, they would need to have a good argument as to why it should be illegal. This can be applied to any law, like for example rights for african americans. States used to be able to stop them from voting and was legal at one point (you can argue that they did it anyway after it was illegal, but that's not when I'm talking about). It wasn't illegal to stop them from voting (i.e. literacy tests, fees, etc.) until a case was presented and a law was passed because they had a good argument. MJ on the other hand doesn't have a strong argument, for it to be illegal, and is illegal for no good reason so as you said naysayers do need to be convinced, however, fundamentally it should never have been illegal in the first place.... if that makes any sense at all...
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you may be right but Captain Hindsight wont help us now, will it?
 
Not surprised it didn't pass. People are idiots.

That said, even if it had passed, it wouldn't have been long before the fed knocked it down. Supremacy clause, interstate commerce, etc, etc...same as what happened in Arizona with their immigration law, no matter how you felt about that.

Anyone know how entangled the textile lobbyists are still?
 
$$Money$$ said:
The reason you see hemp like that is because it's no grown in the usa and people don't bother much with it. The shirts and stuff that are made are expensive because of import taxes. Not only that but since it's not grown in the usa, it costs more to make the final product. And when hemp isn't as developed as cotton, you start to see the holes and harsh cloth.

Also even for some reason that cloth isn't made from it, paper will be a huge product that could be made. The paper that's made from it is the best quality and lasts for a looong time. Not to mention that it saves trees and resources.
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Just because it is not grown in the USA, why does that mean people don't bother with it? Because they only buy American made? Regardless of that, people need to understand that an entire industry does not need to be done in the USA to see whether it will work or not. There is plenty of other countries (30+ or so) that do cultivate hemp, and then plenty more that import it, and if it is not doing well is because it isn't that good. It isn't expensive at all. The cost of a pair of hemp pants is about the same price as a medium range pair of jeans.
 
Yeah, I don't really agree with most drug laws. I mean I don't touch Marijuana, my love is for coke tbh but Marijuana turns people the same way cocaine turns them in my mind. You do become a bit more aggressive and lazy but that's drugs all over. Some people who knew me before they found out I did that now talk to me like absolute shit despite the fact they get up at 10am and go straight to the pub and get drunk. That's okay because it's legal. I work hard, pay taxes and I'm scum. To me the only drugs that need to be illegal or controlled heavily are Crystal Meth and Heroin. There's no denying that those 2 are extremely dangerous and completely destroy people. I've lost a lot of friends to both (as well as alcohol) but I do not believe all drugs are the same and should not be classed the same.
 
$$Money$$ said:
uhm actually it does. Because it became illegal from the begging, everyone moved over to cotton. If it had stayed legal, it wouldn't be cotton now, it would of been hemp. Everything would of been made from hemp. It would of changed every industry starting from clothing lines to paper making.

And exactly my point, it costs the same as a normal pair of pants but it shouldn't be like that. That's cause its more "rare" in a way. It needs to be imported under certain guidelines, and theres bunch of taxes because of the imports. If it was home grown and home made it would be fraction of the price it is now.
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Don't think so... It would just be a more profitable business. The cost of importing something doesn't determine how much it will sell for, the market will decide that.

What I am trying to suggest here. Is that everyone can buy hemp clothes right now. I think we all agree on that. On countries other than the USA, Australia for example, can cultivate it and use it as a textile material so there is no "import tax". Now if we have all these countries, that are both cultivating it + selling it to their own people, AND people still CHOOSE not to wear hemp clothes. Then where does that leave us?

My point from the beginning has been. People need to shut up about how awesome hemp clothes are and if only you could get your hands on it. The cotten industry is keeping it down and all this crap. It is just complete lunacy. You can already buy hemp clothes, and the market doesn't want it. People are making up stories about how amazing hemp is to legalise marijuana, which by the way, does not need to happen to make hemp legal to cultivate.
 
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