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Building Websites as a Career?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Daisysiegal, Dec 19, 2012.

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  1. Daisysiegal

    Daisysiegal BANNED BANNED

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    Hi all,

    I'm looking at designing and building Websites as a career. I like web-design and development, However, i'm not sure i have the personality traits necessary to do it day-in-day-out.

    I've built a few websites using Frontpage (oldie) and some Drupal...nothing fancy. I've learned HTML, XHTML, some basic PHP. My idea was to build websites...and build up a client base that would enable me to make a living building and selling websites. I guess what scares me is working alone from home-isolated on a day-in-day-out basis. I like people...and maybe the idea of working isolated without human contact is what i'm concerned about.

    I guess i got discouraged using Drupal...as this seems to be the most complicated of the CMS (not to mention slow as hell) programs.

    I have a friend who does it...and he works alone...in his home and builds e-commerce sites...and does very well.

    Who makes it as a Website developer?

    What personality types do best in this field...and which don't?

    Anyone know of someone who did not make it.....and WHY?

    Thanks all for your constructive input.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  2. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Bullshit.

    Work isn't about socializing in the water-cooler with a number of random people you have to see everyday. Work is about production. Are you prepared to produce?

    Work is X hours a day weather you do it in a cubicle, a truck or a dungeon. After work ends, nothing stops you from socializing.

    Don't put work as an excuse for your lack of socializing.

    Your friend.

    The type that likes money and acts to get it.
     
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  3. GreenHustler

    GreenHustler Junior Member

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    I definitely see where you're coming from but my perspective is that there's more to it than that. The majority of people spend a considerable amount of their life working, and if you don't enjoy your job then that's a considerable amount of your life that you're not enjoying. You only live once so I couldn't ever advise someone do dedicate their life to something they hate doing just because its productive. There are also lots of jobs out there that require social skills to be productive; sales, customer service, retail - hell, pretty much the entire third sector.

    tl;dr - We're human, not machines.
     
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  4. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Of course. One would assume that when you choose to leave the 9-5 thing and work on something by yourself, you don't choose to do something you hate, right? ;)
     
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  5. GreenHustler

    GreenHustler Junior Member

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    You're right! But I think the point is that OP is concerned he might not enjoy it, hence creating this thread.
     
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  6. saxgod

    saxgod Regular Member

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    Indeed, when I am working on project i hate it when people disturb me and break my focus. This is actually one of the reasons why i hate working at home :) You are better of working somewhere where nobody disturbs you. Luckily in my country you can rent a cubicle on a day-to-day basis in the bigger cities, and one just opened in my city.

    Anyway, I don't like to be disturbed and certainly not socializing when i'm working.
    At my dayjob its the same. When I am working on something i hate it when a collegue drops in my office to chat. I am like: Go away, i don't have time to chat, i need to finish this..

    On the other hand there are days when i really don't feel like working and well yes then i will go and chat with people, but these are mostly days when i can't focus due to lack of sleep and the amount of redbull is making me nauseous :p

    So if you are not prepared to focus and work without social contact (which is the most productive), then i guess this is not for you
     
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  7. favorshows

    favorshows Regular Member

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    It might not be completely related to website building, but here is my experience. For quite a while I was doing work that I didn't get much joy from, a lot of sleepless nights and there were some times that I couldn't speak with friends face to face for weeks. The result however is that I managed to open a store in a "niche" I like and I'm about to open 2nd store + and ecommerce, so all the hard work paid up.

    Think if you have some higher goals at the end or it's just website building your main purpose. I assume you have some passion for that and I don't see any reason for you to be scared from working at home. What can be better to be honest? You save up on a lot of expenses the weather isn't an issue. When you work for yourself it's ok to slack some days and when you have more work it's easier to push yourself because there isn't any pressure from knowing that you have to present something on the next day to your boss, though having someone to criticise is a good thing.

    I think that you shouldn't be asking who makes it or not, rather you should simply ask yourself if you are willing to work. Website building is quite profitable even if you aren't that great, because let's not forget that the majority of people have no idea how much a curtain website is worth and you can get really high commisions from lawyers, docters etc...
     
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  8. jaerehan

    jaerehan Elite Member

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    reading the conversation...i just dont understand one thing, why is there a link to digitalpoint advertising with home anchor?
     
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  9. gjcontent

    gjcontent Registered Member

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    What makes you think you will be isolated working from home? Who says you have to even work from home? If you run a business you will be dealing with people every single day, no matter where you work from.
     
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  10. Daisysiegal

    Daisysiegal BANNED BANNED

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    That's kewl. I didn't know these exist. How much at these cubes going for?

    Yes..i've heard this from other programmers i've met. One guy told me he worked for days...and then came out of a fog after project was completed.

    I know this feeling too. Sometimes you just need to be around people to make you feel human and alive. I live alone (widow....husband died serving in the middle east) so this is probably another reason i'm concerned about this.

    You're right. Any kinda of productive work requires some time without Social Contact.

    Are you are freelance website developer?

    Thanks Sax!

    ~D
     
  11. omegax

    omegax Newbie

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    First, it sounds like you're trying to build websites for other people correct? My advice is to drop Frontpage and Drupal entirely. Knowledge in HTML and XHTML are handy, but PHP is your friend right now because you should be creating sites with Wordpress and the Thesis or Genesis frameworks. Creating sites from scratch is cool and flashy, but it's not really necessary any longer and it's a huge time sink. If you know enough about PHP then you can get the basic structure from Wordpress and Thesis or Genesis and create a really nice site that's easy to manage.

    I've seen several articles on this site that may help you with your venture. One guy I saw that was doing what you intend to do used Wordpress and found a handful of nice premium themes (don't use free themes, they're garbage) that he printed on paper to give as options to his clients. He charged several thousand dollars for his service, but he gave them a high quality website with a lot of extra services that your clients will need, like search engine submission, SEO help, local search submission, a certain number of free or discounted site updates for a certain time period, etc. Sit down and make a plan, figure out what your clients may want and what you can offer them, but don't under sell yourself. Make some calls in your area pretending to be a client to see what other people or companies are charging, and remember that too cheap = low quality in most people's minds.

    Your friend probably doesn't have anything special that you don't have, besides drive. He knew what he wanted, and he went out and got it for himself.

    You have to put your fear aside and take action. I have a feeling that there's more to it than you thinking you don't have the personality for it, or that you'll miss the social interaction. While I do understand partly, because us 9-5 people get most of our social interaction at work, however this is easily replaced. Join some clubs, join a gym, go to a bar to watch football, etc. There are plenty of ways to supplement the social interaction that you'll be missing, and owning your own business is more than worth this trade off.

    I wouldn't say that any particular personality types do best in this field, you just have to have the drive and motivation to get what you want.

    I do have a friend that quit his 9-5 job to build his own websites full time, but he went back to work because google kept jacking with his SERPs and he couldn't handle the fluctuations in his stats. Instead of using that as motivation to work harder, he let his fear drive him back to working full time for someone else. That's not the choice I would have made personally.

    My personal suggestion would be to also explore creating some content sites for yourself, that way your entire income isn't relying on your client base and you'll be getting residual income from your own sites as well. I only run content websites, I was never into the building for other people thing, even though it can be fairly lucrative. I like the fact that I get paid when I'm sleeping or on vacation though, that's why I started doing it.
     
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  12. Daisysiegal

    Daisysiegal BANNED BANNED

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    True gj, i guess i'm thinking remotely...and since i live in a relatively small town...i was hoping to get business out of the area and even state.
     
  13. tnhomestead

    tnhomestead Regular Member

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    Even working at home you can stay in touch, I have folks in 5 or 6 countries and umpteen states on Skype or IM. As far as Drupal goes, over in Nashville they cant get enough Drupal developers, a lot of the big country stars use Drupal for their sites.
    Wordpress is fine and I use it daily, but Drupal is rock solid and some big bucks! I have spoken at regional Drupalcamps, so go find a meetup group, make some online connections and sell some sites.
    If your going to use Drupal, go sign up at Aquia and become a partner -- lots of good webinars and info.
     
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  14. gjcontent

    gjcontent Registered Member

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    Yeah but you will need to contact those clients somehow. Over the phone, video chat, etc
     
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  15. Daisysiegal

    Daisysiegal BANNED BANNED

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    Thanks tn,

    I started out using Drupal Gardens...and found the site to be very slow. Any changes that i made to 1-1.5 mins to upload (sigh). I also found the sites to be very slow and since i was considering e-commerce sites, i wasn't sure how effective Drupal was (again...speaking as a beginner who just used the free site Drupal Gardens).

    ALSO. After reading some of the posts on Drupal site...i lost confidence in Drupal after reading complaints about modules that were dropped of just didn't work.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  16. Daisysiegal

    Daisysiegal BANNED BANNED

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    Thanks Green,

    Steve Jobs, Donald Trump, etc...all have said you have to love what you are doing to be successful. IF you don't....you won't put in the hours needed to be a success.

    btw..What is the Third Sector?
     
  17. Zapdos

    Zapdos Power Member

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    If you want to be able to talk with likeminded people, then use skype. You won't have the benefit of doing cubicle warfare but you still get to chat.

    One thing to think about though: Will you be able to stand your clients, handle pressure well and not back down from what you agreed on? When creating an ecommerce site you need to have a clear vision on what needs to be done and what doesnt. Then the clients usually want deadlines and if you don't meet them they get mad. Lastly, they love to change things on you and try to make a bunch of changes. If you're a "nice" person you'll quickly lose your mind. Have a guideline and stick to it.


    Lastly, do you enjoy working for others or for yourself? If you can make any type of website, consider creating your own project.
     
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  18. TheRealRazzy

    TheRealRazzy Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    lol, I noticed that to :D

    Maybe Jazzc is trying to tell him to open a thread up over there....
     
  19. saxgod

    saxgod Regular Member

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    €1 per day. Its actually a phenomenom called 'coworking'. You do your own work, but there are multiple people there, mostly from small (one man) startup companies, and you can socialize and network if you like. This is actually a nice thing since many of these startup companies don't have websites yet :)

    Its one of my hats yes. But I only do development, i don't do design. Unless its really simple, but i am very bad at design. So i outsource design and implement it in html
    For the rest its mostly coding for regular apps and some network (tcp/ip and stuff) consulting. And then i also have a dayjob as a sysadmin/netadmin

    I am very fluent in PHP but i'm currently switching more to ASP.Net MVC (C#) for bigger projects.

    Same in my country, allmost all the freelance jobs posted on linkedin that are related to webdevelopment are drupal jobs (custom coding of modules or extensions), and they pay rather good (up to €115 per hour if you are good) and most of the time its like 40h per week for a few months (at their offices)

    I didn't know Aquia yet, thx :)
     
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  20. SmartMan

    SmartMan BANNED BANNED

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    Because OP copy pasted this thread http://x.co/qya3.
     
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