Building an outsourcing team-- the basics (philippine edition)

blackhatcatz

blackhatcatz

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Hey Guys,

I'm bored this sunday and it's a rest day so I thought of how to help more advanced guys in the forum get their businesses up and scaled via outsourcing. As some of you know, I run a small group of people here in the philippines that do most of my work so i can chill out and do what i do best, which is managing and scaling.

Now alot of people here want to do something similar and I'd love to just give you an insight on what you need and also answer any questions you might have.

Some of you have been outsourcing to reliable workers and this works. But what i am talking about here is building a team for the long run. A team you can instruct, teach and monitor while sipping margarita or chilling out with your friends and going back to check and see all the work is done for you.

Things you need:

1. Trusted/Knowledgeable people on the ground to manage your stuff.

2. Systemized work and results parameters.

3. Centralized office for better management.

4. Fly down to see the work area (highly recommended but optional especially if you're doing a JV since someone knowledgeable might be on the ground already)

Philippine culture:

1. We want to work hard and do a good job. (I have guys who work 12 hours and i beg them to go home instead of just doing 8 at no extra pay. Needless to say they get a raise all the time :D)

2. Loyalty and kindness are second to none, treat them, mingle with them, treat them out to lunch and a few drinks from time to time. treat them right and they'll stick with you for the long run.

3.Easily contented but it is important that you get them to buy into what you're doing and that they understand why.

4.Money and connections get everything done here. If you are looking for a partner look for someone who is well-connected. NOTHING can't be done here with these two things in conjunction. Asian culture.


Just a bit of info on how to build your stuff here. If you have questions/ideas or comments. Just let me know, i'd love to help you out and just so you know i have a very bad ulterior motive. I'd love to have more employment be given to my countrymen by very stable businesses (ie internet marketing=low costs high returns. Very stable). :)

Thanks for reading!

F
 
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edit:(hehe thanks poppz)

you still have any vacancy for me under your wing?
 
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deadster said:
may puwang pa ba sa ilalim ng iyong pakpak para sakin?
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FORUM RULES:
1? English Only ? All posts must be written in English. No exceptions! Anyone caught posting in a language other than English will receive a permanent infraction.

HTH .... :cool2:
​
 
What's good start up capital to setup a 6 man operation over there with a decent, modern office
building?

_Austin
 
_Austin said:
What's good start up capital to setup a 6 man operation over there with a decent, modern office
building?

_Austin
Click to expand...

I'd give you a quote for 6 months. depending on skill level, salaries go from $200-500 MAX to start each. so assuming that you get 3($200 each) low levels 2($350) mid level and 1 ($500) manager/webdev etc. your cost would be around.


rent for a decent 20 sqm place in manila should be around $220-$400 (depends on location and length of contract usual rate is $300-350) monthly plus electricity and internet. x6 months.

and also equipment. decent computers cost $200-300 each. plus chairs 1 printer and 6 desks. should be around $2500

$1500 a month x 6 months for salaries

$400x6 months for max rent

internet $50 a month and utilities should be around $150 a month x6= 1200

$2500 for equipment

paper work etc give it another $500

so around $8000-9000 for 6 months for being safe let's say $10k with contingencies etc.

the other thing is it's unusual to do this if you are going to start from scratch since you need to source out your employees which is key for our business we don't want to get people who are incompetent or lazy. It takes a bit of weeding out. Usually not that hard but will take a good month to get the right guys running. the above quote will get you something decent already.

Any more questions?

F
 
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Wow! that's was great. Might considering building similar to this in provinces. I'm in Mindanao btw.
 
I like the way you present the deal..

Still 10k may be seen as high given the risks..
What is the legal framework for the workers over there?
How much you have to add extra for social security, retirement, holidays etc?

What would be the minimum team size (beyond 1)?

I have some experience with people in the Philippines, and some of the problems that I experienced where:

1. Poor or inadequate English level.
2. Knowledge was not up to the task.
3. They tend to build up steam, and blow up, rather than admitting there is a problem.
4. Working with a big time difference (+6) means you need a good management with clear instructions.

I have found some very good people though.. And I really glad to count with their help..
But the process to find them was long and difficult.
 
alfaprima said:
I like the way you present the deal..

1.Still 10k may be seen as high given the risks..

yes, this is a sample for 6 people and salary is usually the biggest expense my suggestion is to really start small as you said because we need to get people up to par first.

I don't suggest starting with this unless you have a solid biz plan in place. Also keep in mind with the right training everything should work out fine. Train them first. key part of the process.


What is the legal framework for the workers over there?
How much you have to add extra for social security, retirement, holidays etc?

none of this is discussed until they are 'regularized' and there are no actual rules on this UNLESS you really want to run it as something uber professional rather than a grassroots company. My suggestion is to take these things up once you are in break even or profitable level. Never on day 1.

What would be the minimum team size (beyond 1)?

I think 2-3 to start would be good. 4-6 is big. I currently have 8 and it is a bit big already.

(I assumed that you outsourced through a company or individuals from freelancer sites)

I have some experience with people in the Philippines, and some of the problems that I experienced where:

1. Poor or inadequate English level.

true to some degree. especially if you hire freelancers rather through freelancing sites (remember people who do work at home--NOT ALL, are usually people who don't want to get jobs outside or can't find jobs easily unlike university grads which you can get at the same price IF you have an OFFICE. (THE NORM HERE IS THEY NEED AN OFFICE) :)

Plus, this can be offset by having an acting manager who has excellent english skills on board (probably a university grad which you will give extra salary to) and course the work in english through him and her.


2. Knowledge was not up to the task.

Yup this will always be a problem. The main problem here is assumption, the way i teach it is I teach EVERYTHING about the process once. let them do it. check again. Correct their mistakes and let them do it again. In other words, I train them properly. training is easier once you have an office where you will get people who can learn faster (higher level guys) who will take care of the lower level guys work for you.

3. They tend to build up steam, and blow up, rather than admitting there is a problem.

Definitely an asian tradition. breaking it down is easier when you have an office. My first comment in the office is, please ask me all the questions you want and I always ask, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? I can check this with my results/parameters if i am not making enough sales or a part of my process is not working out too well. Again can be cleared up with the right question and encouragement. from the start. office culture is key.


4. Working with a big time difference (+6) means you need a good management with clear instructions.

Exact reason you put up an office. get good management and let them adjust for your time zone. that's why you pay them. easy to do.

I have found some very good people though.. And I really glad to count with their help..
But the process to find them was long and difficult.
Click to expand...

Good that you're hiring from our country. :) I hope I answered your questions.
 
3. They tend to build up steam, and blow up, rather than admitting there is a problem.
Click to expand...

definitely an issue, Its about saving face, people do not want to lose face.

they will tell you they understand when they dont. It is best to teach as blackhatcatz does, let them do it and correct.

You need to adapt them to a "no problem" atmosphere
 
DrJekyll said:
definitely an issue, Its about saving face, people do not want to lose face.

they will tell you they understand when they dont. It is best to teach as blackhatcatz does, let them do it and correct.

You need to adapt them to a "no problem" atmosphere
Click to expand...


yes. this is the main difference of having an office rather than outsourcing to people all over. once you have your 'a-team' they'll be there for you day in day out. setup a system. train. go out, party, workout or whatever (things i don't do. ;)) and go back check your parameters, check their work or have a manager do it for you and get a report. remember results don't lie so the most important trick is to know how to track results.

all the best,

f
 
[FONT=&quot]Indeed you answer them all.. Thanks.

Only your assumption that I hired them as freelancers is wrong.
No, I'm hiring them as permanent workers, and through a Philippine site.

At this very moment, Philippines is been shown as *THE* place to outsource by more than one guru.. That is how I got started. The bad news is that many of the recruiting sites are now full of people that have heard about this rush for Philippine workers. Unfortunately this is pushing the rates higher, and in turn this attracts many people that take this job as a side job, or that are willing to try because of the good pay.

I would say that at this moment my business can't justify such setup, but I would really consider it, If I was making 3 time the cost of this investment.
[/FONT]
 
alfaprima said:
[FONT=&quot]Indeed you answer them all.. Thanks.

Only your assumption that I hired them as freelancers is wrong.
No, I'm hiring them as permanent workers, and through a Philippine site.

At this very moment, Philippines is been shown as *THE* place to outsource by more than one guru.. That is how I got started. The bad news is that many of the recruiting sites are now full of people that have heard about this rush for Philippine workers. Unfortunately this is pushing the rates higher, and in turn this attracts many people that take this job as a side job, or that are willing to try because of the good pay.

I would say that at this moment my business can't justify such setup, but I would really consider it, If I was making 3 time the cost of this investment.
[/FONT]
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you are correct. :) hence the suggestion to setup your own. that's why i only call it an outsourcing team. but in reality it's just like any company with delegation and leadership. the problem with getting an outsourcing team is simple. their "job" is to finish the task. that is their goal. unlike if you had your own team, whcih will do the job for you properly.

off to bed i go. tomorrow maybe i can answer more stuff in between breaks.

all the best,

f
 
this is really interesting, im far from this but anyway its good to know how the ig guys do it.
 
2. Knowledge was not up to the task.
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Yup this will always be a problem. The main problem here is assumption, the way i teach it is I teach EVERYTHING about the process once. let them do it. check again. Correct their mistakes and let them do it again. In other words, I train them properly. training is easier once you have an office where you will get people who can learn faster (higher level guys) who will take care of the lower level guys work for you.
Click to expand...


I'm using a site that provides training. Each task has a video, and a task list that they have to check..they start by following the training.. but most of the time this does not work.

Investing in training is a good thing if the employee is there for the long run.
But there is a risk that you end up paying to train people that will leave the company at the moment they get a better offer..
I don't know how loyal people is over there.. may be I'm burn from my experience. ;-(

Also adding a management layer may not be the ultimate answer...
I have worked with a team in roumania (in another life)... with 10+ Management.
I don't have a good memory of that time.. The management was more human resources management, with not much interest in the bussines itself. Workers where skilled (top level developpers) but trained to work like the russian army.. you need a sargent to just to make them move.
At the end from that lot, 2-3 people where really making the difference, the rest was not adding to the bottom line.
A very expensive way to find it out..
 
Now if you have a good training program, you can train people for free, in return they do work for you.

when they complete the training they can be hired by you if they are good, or are more prepared for the outsourcing work available.

provide certificates and such as long as they complete the training.

This would be a good business model for someone in country.
 
Hi F,

Thank you very much for your post.

I have been lurking for a while but your post prompted me to make my first post. The reason is because I have been thinking of doing exactly what you just outlined but on a smaller scale initially. In fact, I am thinking of going there in January to see if/how I can make it happen. My biggest concern (before I read your post) was that I had no idea of the initial costs involved. Thanks to you, I now feel more comfortable.

Before I continue, let me say that I am also a Filipino but have lived in the US most of my adult life. Like you, I also want to help employ some of my countrymen. Having said that, would you be willing to help me set up a team if I do decide to fly-in in January? Since I am planning to do whitehat stuff, my initial estimate of my needs will be a couple of article writers, a WP webdesigner/webmaster and a backlink builder. This, of course, will grow as the business grows. Can you give me an estimate of the salaries for the above workers?

Taking into account the weeding out of the undesirables, the paperwork, and the red-tape how long do you think it would take to get this team running efficiently?

Thanks again and I look forward to your reply.

J
 
DrJekyll said:
Now if you have a good training program, you can train people for free, in return they do work for you.

when they complete the training they can be hired by you if they are good, or are more prepared for the outsourcing work available.

provide certificates and such as long as they complete the training.

This would be a good business model for someone in country.
Click to expand...


A good marketer J[FONT=Verdana, Sans-Serif]ames Braush[/FONT], now retired put this into practice.. it's called trainee program. He started requesting people to do tasks for free, and in return you will have a direct view on what he was doing. You also got access to some of his tools.
It was a good deal.. but it did not work out. People loose interest before they got to the point to be productive.. So he started to pay them once they show that they could follow..
Being a good engineer what he was really after where the procedures..he documented each task to the point it was ready for general use.. and then he sold the 'task' as a product..
That was a really good idea. :-)

Now I'm my own case, I had one trainee in philipines. A lady that wanted to learn SEO. So I put a deal: a low salary (150$/Month) and access to one of the most advanced SEO courses on the market. A real case (website,keywords, content) to play with, and my time to check progress and provide advice. if after 3 months she proved to be good, she would get the 250$/Month salary.
Long story short.. she lasted long enough for the first check. ;-(
 
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Are you in the country? as Blackhatcatz mentioned it takes an office setting.

Actually I have a friend that is setting up a college in Manila area, I need to get with him, if it could be done in a classroom type setting it will work, it is a lot easier to stay focused.

he has the resources also as he owns a radio station there



alfaprima said:
A good marketer J[FONT=Verdana, Sans-Serif]ames Braush[/FONT], now retired put this into practice.. it's called trainee program. He started requesting people to do tasks for free, and in return you will have a direct view on what he was doing. You also got access to some of his tools.
It was a good deal.. but it did not work out. People loose interest before they got to the point to be productive.. So he started to pay them once they show that they could follow..
Being a good engineer what he was really after where the procedures..he documented each task to the point it was ready for general use.. and then he sold the 'task' as a product..
That was a really good idea. :-)

Now I'm my own case, I had one trainee in philipines. A lady that wanted to learn SEO. So I put a deal: a low salary (150$/Month) and access to one of the most advanced SEO courses on the market. A real case (website,keywords, content) to play with, and my time to check progress and provide advice. if after 3 months she proved to be good, she would get the 250$/Month salary.
Long story short.. she lasted long enough for the first check. ;-(
Click to expand...
 
Great write up. I find the key thing is the training. I try to be as firm but fair as possible with my team so they know they won't be screwed over if they perform.
 
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