- Oct 6, 2020
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You are missing the point that in crypto everyone expects their investment returns and hype is purely based on that.
BTC: Lets see who will predict the crash.
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loukeyzee
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like what? give an example, please?
loukeyzee
Senior Member
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Tesla
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But that's not even close to being the same.
Tesla(and stocks) - they are backed by a real business that produces value(or at least try to). Even if hype-driven. You can check tesla or gamestop stock prices, it's not like they are skyrocketing.
And that's the problem with bitcoin. It's too high and too close to the sun.
People are buying bitcoin, because they are expecting interest returns of it. Nothing else. Of course there are some usage but its either to support shady business or just because people have them.
Returns come from the next investor and not produced by value that bitcoin gives. Most of bitcoin owners does not even use bitcoins but only holds them. Transaction fees, speed, bitcoin has a lot of problems too.
That's why it will crash.
Again, no hate. Just common sense.
Unless something big happens, like - banks start to accept bitcoins, you can shop with them in your local store, etc.
we are seeing some movement in this direction with mastercard trying to do something with crypto, tesla accepting crypto payments, etc. But again - its only time when the government will be like - hey, we want a share of your hard earned crypto. and when regulations will hit..
another thing is blockchain, Im sure that it will only evolve and get better over time. I'm pretty sure that etherium will grow as well.
But this thread is about bitcoin.
edit: I used gamestop as wanted to show an example of what happens to hyped stock, but I lost thread of thoughts as Im too tired already and .. what is the point of discussion with btc fanbois(no offence), its the same as arguing with housewife that just got into MLM.
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Amphoric
Regular Member
- Nov 26, 2019
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Not sure if it's going to crash hard, but these are the areas I'd look to jump in when it comes back down.
https://www.tradingview.com/x/Zc6NNUUJ/
https://www.tradingview.com/x/Zc6NNUUJ/
loukeyzee
Senior Member
- Dec 10, 2016
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@lucky.sparks
I don’t agree. Have a nice evening
I don’t agree. Have a nice evening
joseph15
Power Member
- Dec 29, 2015
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You need to not fall into the trap of comparing bitcoin to currency. It doesn't matter that it's expensive and slow and that banks don't accept it. Bitcoin, like art, baseball cards, and gold - only has value because people have determined it has value. These things don't generate any new revenue like investing in companies or land, and that's fine.
I actually agree with you that there is a craze right now and that bitcoin will probably have a steep drop-off in the short-term, perhaps in the summer when people want to spend cash after a "pandemic". But if you expect the word 'bitcoin' to still be relevant in the year 2030 (which many people do), you can safely assume that it will be significantly more expensive in dollars by that point.
And bitcoin is already extremely regulated. The SEC may not be involved yet but if you're an American trying to buy crypto, you'll have to provide more information and KYC than you would if you opened a bank account. The only true way to kill it off is to outlaw the exchange of bitcoin to $, and even that may not work.
D
Deleted member 1333509
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@lucky.sparks @joseph15
You're both missing the point that Bitcoin is not simply a speculatory asset, at all, in any way, shape or form. When comparing it to stocks there are more similarities than you'd think like both stocks and Bitcoin represent (in some significant part) the value that the entity can provide to people, and when comparing it to fiat there are some clear differences that are important to consider like that where fiat is completely untethered to any kind of tangible value, there is a underlying cost to creating a Bitcoin, tangibly, as an energy and hardware cost. This second point combined with the inability for any person on earth to control the monetary policy of the Bitcoin blockchain is why it has significant inherent value, although it may not have real world assets attached to it like a stock.
Just two quick other points:
Websites abiding by kyc compliance rules does not mean that Bitcoin (or crypto in general) is regulated. You can freely connect to the Bitcoin blockchain, create a wallet externally of any kind of regulation in a permissionless way, mine Bitcoin without any kind of kyc, trade Bitcoin without any kind of kyc.
That's the real power of Bitcoin - not only does no one control it, no one controls the access points to it, and as long as you have an internet connection and the knowledge of how to do it, no one can ever stop you from using Bitcoin or forcing you to provide kyc in order to do so.
You might say "but if you can't use exchanges to trade Bitcoin, how do you find people to trade with?". There have always been ways to find decentralized trading networks that don't have anything to do with centralized platforms, and in fact quite a large amount of trade has passed through these networks outside of any kind of kyc.
Also I seriously, seriously doubt that any government or all governments would be able to kill Bitcoin by banning it, moreso you would need all governments working together and if a single country didn't fall in line then that country would become a hub of mining and crypto commerce while all other countries that seized Bitcoin servers in their jurisdiction would immediately push it underground, but more importantly would push any legitimate crypto innovation in their country to other countries.
But say hypothetically they did, what would be the point anyway? The genie is out of the bottle, and the potential profits from setting up a BTC clone alone would make sure that within a month of BTC somehow being completely eradicated from the face of the earth, there would be 5 new Bitcoins that would pop up, or even more likely, the multiple variations of BTC Core currently in existance and themselves worth billions each would just absorb all of the liquidity from Core and then they too would need to have huge resource contributed to shutting them down. Decentralized value transfer as a concept can't be outlawed.
You're both missing the point that Bitcoin is not simply a speculatory asset, at all, in any way, shape or form. When comparing it to stocks there are more similarities than you'd think like both stocks and Bitcoin represent (in some significant part) the value that the entity can provide to people, and when comparing it to fiat there are some clear differences that are important to consider like that where fiat is completely untethered to any kind of tangible value, there is a underlying cost to creating a Bitcoin, tangibly, as an energy and hardware cost. This second point combined with the inability for any person on earth to control the monetary policy of the Bitcoin blockchain is why it has significant inherent value, although it may not have real world assets attached to it like a stock.
Just two quick other points:
But people buy stocks for some reason other they expect it to yield profit? They obviously don't, and Bitcoin is no more speculatory than the stock market is. People get hung up on stocks having "things" attached to them, but the lack of connected "things" doesn't mean Bitcoin is only speculatory, as I mentioned in the big para above.
Bitcoin isn't extremely regulated at all, in fact, it's extremely unregulated for the most part.
Websites abiding by kyc compliance rules does not mean that Bitcoin (or crypto in general) is regulated. You can freely connect to the Bitcoin blockchain, create a wallet externally of any kind of regulation in a permissionless way, mine Bitcoin without any kind of kyc, trade Bitcoin without any kind of kyc.
That's the real power of Bitcoin - not only does no one control it, no one controls the access points to it, and as long as you have an internet connection and the knowledge of how to do it, no one can ever stop you from using Bitcoin or forcing you to provide kyc in order to do so.
You might say "but if you can't use exchanges to trade Bitcoin, how do you find people to trade with?". There have always been ways to find decentralized trading networks that don't have anything to do with centralized platforms, and in fact quite a large amount of trade has passed through these networks outside of any kind of kyc.
Also I seriously, seriously doubt that any government or all governments would be able to kill Bitcoin by banning it, moreso you would need all governments working together and if a single country didn't fall in line then that country would become a hub of mining and crypto commerce while all other countries that seized Bitcoin servers in their jurisdiction would immediately push it underground, but more importantly would push any legitimate crypto innovation in their country to other countries.
But say hypothetically they did, what would be the point anyway? The genie is out of the bottle, and the potential profits from setting up a BTC clone alone would make sure that within a month of BTC somehow being completely eradicated from the face of the earth, there would be 5 new Bitcoins that would pop up, or even more likely, the multiple variations of BTC Core currently in existance and themselves worth billions each would just absorb all of the liquidity from Core and then they too would need to have huge resource contributed to shutting them down. Decentralized value transfer as a concept can't be outlawed.
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joseph15
Power Member
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When I said regulated, I meant in the sense that for the common person it is quite difficult to buy or sell enormous sums of Bitcoin without having to input your ID or residence papers SOMEWHERE. Is it possible? Of course - it's very possible I'm sure. But for the bulk of investors or holders of bitcoin it is not really feasible to sell 10 bitcoins at once at your desired price in the United States without KYC if you don't know what you're doing, which applies to the bulk of the population. It is not regulated in the same way that securities are regulated by the SEC but it is under quite a bit of scrutiny, and governments are getting more involved in knowing how/where it circulates, and who is buying it in all developed nations. Maybe I'm wrong but decentralized exchanges aren't really viable in most 1st world countries if you're wanting to unload or buy huge amounts. For most people.
And of course, bitcoin itself will never totally die even if it is universally banned in major countries. But I can assure you beyond a shadow of a doubt that a solid 80%+ of our population would rather not get involved in crime if they can avoid it, which is sad in this case because bitcoin doesn't hurt anyone. If exchanging bitcoin for fiat is outlawed, then massive companies like Square, Tesla, paypal, will pull out any & all bitcoin investments, and so will the common investor. It will still be around but it most definitely won't have a market cap of trillions of dollars anymore as a significant amount of people/institutions will pull out. So they can't kill it, but they can certainly dismantle it to the point where it's only for criminals or 'shady internet people' like you and I.
- Oct 6, 2020
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Take out profitability from just owning bitcoin and nobody will give a fuck about it anymore.
Small percentage of freedom fighters and criminals.
Govs can ban usage of it and it will probably happen because of money laundering and crime.
Small percentage of freedom fighters and criminals.
Govs can ban usage of it and it will probably happen because of money laundering and crime.
They didnt ban pharmaceutical companies drugging up the whole population for taxes, made weed legal for taxes etc. What makes you think it's gonna be banned if it can be taxed? You are at least delusional here.
Lord46
Regular Member
- Mar 12, 2020
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I son't worry about this, I am holding long term
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Ban because it can't be controlled, therefore - taxed.
I'm so delusional that now I'm no paying any tax at all on my income because I use crypto.
I like to be delusional.
Hope it will continue.
redjebo
Regular Member
- Jul 18, 2015
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With crypto going more and more mainstream comes a point in future where the amount of tax that evades entering the state budget is threatening the very basics of the said state/country.
Les and less tax in the budget means imminent failure of the concept of a state as such. Not sure how such scenario will benefit anyone. Thus cryptocurrencies need to evolve to the point they are accepted on governmental level with tax, insurance and everything or be outlawed someday, no other option.
Les and less tax in the budget means imminent failure of the concept of a state as such. Not sure how such scenario will benefit anyone. Thus cryptocurrencies need to evolve to the point they are accepted on governmental level with tax, insurance and everything or be outlawed someday, no other option.
- Nov 9, 2016
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would love to see a correction of - $10-15k soon hope it happens