Blackhat is not illegal
- Thread starter HaRRo
- Start date
ak2ae
Regular Member
- Jul 20, 2008
- 215
- 112
It shocks me some people don't realise all this cash uni ewhoring stuff is fraud and beyond blackhat. Well explained.
Black-Cracka
Newbie
- Dec 20, 2009
- 39
- 7
When you combine stupidity with greed, stuff like this is bound to happen.
If I remember his story right (he told it at a seminar, forget which seminar it was), he had hacked into a couple different gov't sites, among other illegal tasks like using other peoples' credit cards to buy stuff online. I believe he commited all these offenses in the 90s, 1995 sounds about right if I'm remembering correctly.
He said it was pretty easy because "most sites' adminstrator's logins back then was just admin, admin" meaning the username was admin and the password was admin.
I think he said the judge said he'd let him go free if he promised to use his talents to do business ethically, which he seems to be doing, considering he's a PPC and media buy genius. Nice to see people who were heading for the worst turn out for the best.
- Dec 30, 2009
- 263
- 91
As far as breaking laws is concerned I am pretty sure most people break at least a few laws a day. Its all about weighing the risk and rewards. I find e-whoring pretty unethical, but if I put that aside and analyze the risks and rewards it still isn't worth it.
Some of the crimes you might be committing are pretty nasty ones. For instance if you e-whore a minor, or use a minors picture you are gonna get a pedo stamp on your record. I would rather not see so many people unjustly labeled as pedophiles, but legally you could be one.
As far as the whole craigslist thing goes you're committing fraud and might be breaking anti-spam laws. Which is a good run in prison. Cookie stuffing I don't think is too illegal, but you are hurting other legitimate site owners. So that's a shitty thing to do. You could get sued I guess, but then anything involving copy right infringement would have to be banned to.
Some of the crimes you might be committing are pretty nasty ones. For instance if you e-whore a minor, or use a minors picture you are gonna get a pedo stamp on your record. I would rather not see so many people unjustly labeled as pedophiles, but legally you could be one.
As far as the whole craigslist thing goes you're committing fraud and might be breaking anti-spam laws. Which is a good run in prison. Cookie stuffing I don't think is too illegal, but you are hurting other legitimate site owners. So that's a shitty thing to do. You could get sued I guess, but then anything involving copy right infringement would have to be banned to.
Anyone want to update this or throw a spin on it? I thought a visual may help people put a perspective of where they stand on marketing.
Please feel free to modify and make better (took me about 2 minutes)
Not sure how telling people they'll get a job for a CR and giving them hidden charges is any different then e-whoring?
ClThis
Regular Member
- Oct 27, 2009
- 394
- 230
Like I said, it took about 2 seconds to set that example up - and I was thinking the severity of the conversion on the converted in the long run. Its also the same reason I said, please revise.
I do appreciate that at least one person commented. It was a very rough rendition of something that would be cool to see someone break down.
zen19
Elite Member
- Mar 31, 2009
- 1,666
- 4,240
From reading many CL jobs methods that focus around Credit Reports - Its usually more a case of please do this report to qualify yourself for an interview. The CR is not to actually get the job. Very slim differentiation.
The difference between the typical ewhore method and the jobs CR method is very slight also.
I suspect that the majority of the heat on ewhores is due to the likes of CU/SC - where the user is being told that they are verifying their details for free, when in actual fact they are signing up for an expensive porn site. The networks in question thrive on making it as difficult as possible to notice what is actually going on. In this case the network/advertiser is willfully trying to mislead the site vistor. In certain cases where users have their own LP's they are complicit in the fraud.
In the case of CL CR traffic - the advertisers full page would usually be loaded. While many people say that the concept of a credit reporting service is a rip off in itself, I know I use a monitoring service and pay monthly for this. In this case, the site vistor can see exactly what they are signing up for - and in most cases the CR LP's make it pretty clear about rebill cycles - much more so than ewhore landers. Here its more about the email persuading the 'candidate' that a report is needed prior to the application process. The 'candidate' is incentivised to complete a report but its very clear just what they are buying.
In BOTH cases - the vistor is having the facts misrepresented - just in a different way. In BOTH cases the visitor stands to spend money that they would not otherwise spend. The only difference is that in the Jobs method, the visitor is receiving an actual valid service, that they conscented to purchase.
You may ask why the CL section has not been removed also - I would point out that methods relating to misleading people are being removed, as these are clearly against the new set of rules. It is however posssible to use CL as a fully whitehat marketing medium, to sell valid products, with zero misrepresentation. Ewhoring on the other hand will almost always involve lying in one form or another.
I hope that clears this up.
The difference between the typical ewhore method and the jobs CR method is very slight also.
I suspect that the majority of the heat on ewhores is due to the likes of CU/SC - where the user is being told that they are verifying their details for free, when in actual fact they are signing up for an expensive porn site. The networks in question thrive on making it as difficult as possible to notice what is actually going on. In this case the network/advertiser is willfully trying to mislead the site vistor. In certain cases where users have their own LP's they are complicit in the fraud.
In the case of CL CR traffic - the advertisers full page would usually be loaded. While many people say that the concept of a credit reporting service is a rip off in itself, I know I use a monitoring service and pay monthly for this. In this case, the site vistor can see exactly what they are signing up for - and in most cases the CR LP's make it pretty clear about rebill cycles - much more so than ewhore landers. Here its more about the email persuading the 'candidate' that a report is needed prior to the application process. The 'candidate' is incentivised to complete a report but its very clear just what they are buying.
In BOTH cases - the vistor is having the facts misrepresented - just in a different way. In BOTH cases the visitor stands to spend money that they would not otherwise spend. The only difference is that in the Jobs method, the visitor is receiving an actual valid service, that they conscented to purchase.
You may ask why the CL section has not been removed also - I would point out that methods relating to misleading people are being removed, as these are clearly against the new set of rules. It is however posssible to use CL as a fully whitehat marketing medium, to sell valid products, with zero misrepresentation. Ewhoring on the other hand will almost always involve lying in one form or another.
I hope that clears this up.
ClThis
Regular Member
- Oct 27, 2009
- 394
- 230
wmitchell003
Regular Member
- Jul 30, 2007
- 463
- 58
This explanation is clear and concise, states unbiased facts and opinion. Its not saying its right or wrong, just stating what it is. Thank you.
the450man
Junior Member
- Jan 15, 2009
- 198
- 62
I dont think ewhores have much to worry about...
I mean there are terms on the sign up forms stating every detail.... what is being charged, how much, how often, and for what.... not fraud
ewhoring is simply putting an incentive to the offer which is not on the terms.. not part of any legal contract..
Its his/her responsibility to read through the terms BEFORE he/she completes the form... Very similar to signing a contract without reading the terms....
Its not so much the feds ewhores need to worry about... hell the government is making money off this!
Now using someone else's pictures and violating websites TOS is a shady area..
I mean there are terms on the sign up forms stating every detail.... what is being charged, how much, how often, and for what.... not fraud
ewhoring is simply putting an incentive to the offer which is not on the terms.. not part of any legal contract..
Its his/her responsibility to read through the terms BEFORE he/she completes the form... Very similar to signing a contract without reading the terms....
Its not so much the feds ewhores need to worry about... hell the government is making money off this!
Now using someone else's pictures and violating websites TOS is a shady area..
jetti789
Junior Member
- Feb 7, 2009
- 124
- 93
I think you are missing the point.
If you are ewhoring you are getting them to sign up under false pretenses.
You are knowingly promising to hook up with them if they fill out this incentive. And you know that's not true.
That's the part that could be considered fraud.
It's basically bait and switch.
Moto801
Senior Member
- Apr 25, 2009
- 1,000
- 478
So you are saying that if ewhores were really females and actually hooked up with the men after they filled out their CC info then it would be ok?
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bmac
BANNED
- Dec 26, 2006
- 411
- 166
I think Harros point is more of the stealing credit cards and that type stuff more so than the cl stuff. I think even the feds would agree that phishing account info and steal personal info is a lot different than asking someone to sign up for something even if it is in a grease kind of way.
tonlilaz
Elite Member
- Feb 28, 2008
- 1,520
- 1,732
i think the idea here is that if you're gonna offer something to somebody, you better be ready to follow through.
getting somebody to fill out a credit offer, buy a watch, or do anything for you in exchange for a strip show isn't against the law (yet)
as long as you give them a strip show....or give them what you promised to give them
Scenario 1:
-You post an ad on Craigslist looking for a hookup.
-You get replies, you tell the people who replied to check out your facebook profile.
-The people who replied do not have a facebook profile, so they sign up.
Legal? 100%.
Scenario 2:
-You post an ad on Craigslist looking for a hookup.
-You get replies, you tell the people who replied to check out your xxxxx profile.
-The people who replied do not have a xxxxx profile, so they sign up.
Legal? Apparently Not? Lol wut?
xxxxx = A dating landing page, with a dating backend, paid signup.
Facebook = Sure, they have landing pages, they are dating related, but free signup.
The paid part:
xxxxx = Terms and conditions are there, they know//or should know they are going to get charged, it does not say "Age Verification" or "Free lifetime access" anywhere on the site. It says "Free Trial Access" on the cc submit. - Which is truth.
Heck, the people who process the credit cards (biller) give out refunds 24/7... incase the customer wasn't satisfied with the product. (~45% of customers refund) ---Depending on Biller of course.
Someone clearly said earlier in this thread with proof that impersonating a female isn't illegal. (If you are a man)
There are many paid dating sites on the internet, is it a crime to promote them?
Where's the illegal part about this?
I'm not arguing with anyone here, just being realistic.
I agree that the ewhoring and Cookie stuffing forums should be taken down.
Because cookie stuffing is fraud. - You are blatantly ripping off networks that you work for.
More bad than good as come out of the ewhoring forums - A LOT of people didn't get paid out from middleman networks.... CD/?SC?/EPIMPZ/WH/BHE etc... Which IS FRAUD.
-You post an ad on Craigslist looking for a hookup.
-You get replies, you tell the people who replied to check out your facebook profile.
-The people who replied do not have a facebook profile, so they sign up.
Legal? 100%.
Scenario 2:
-You post an ad on Craigslist looking for a hookup.
-You get replies, you tell the people who replied to check out your xxxxx profile.
-The people who replied do not have a xxxxx profile, so they sign up.
Legal? Apparently Not? Lol wut?
xxxxx = A dating landing page, with a dating backend, paid signup.
Facebook = Sure, they have landing pages, they are dating related, but free signup.
The paid part:
xxxxx = Terms and conditions are there, they know//or should know they are going to get charged, it does not say "Age Verification" or "Free lifetime access" anywhere on the site. It says "Free Trial Access" on the cc submit. - Which is truth.
Heck, the people who process the credit cards (biller) give out refunds 24/7... incase the customer wasn't satisfied with the product. (~45% of customers refund) ---Depending on Biller of course.
Someone clearly said earlier in this thread with proof that impersonating a female isn't illegal. (If you are a man)
There are many paid dating sites on the internet, is it a crime to promote them?
Where's the illegal part about this?
I'm not arguing with anyone here, just being realistic.
I agree that the ewhoring and Cookie stuffing forums should be taken down.
Because cookie stuffing is fraud. - You are blatantly ripping off networks that you work for.
More bad than good as come out of the ewhoring forums - A LOT of people didn't get paid out from middleman networks.... CD/?SC?/EPIMPZ/WH/BHE etc... Which IS FRAUD.
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- Dec 30, 2009
- 263
- 91
I am pretty sure it depends on what country you are in. But the US is not the only country to have laws against some of the practices used for e-whoring.
The reality is that very few people will ever see any legal trouble due to e-whoring, or any. Currently there are a ton of internet crimes which the authorities are more concerned with. You have people stealing credit card databases, selling identities, laundering money, pedo shit, botnets, viruses, hackers, pirates, terror networks, etc.
Honestly to get in trouble for e-whore you either fall into the pedo shit category, you're making super insane mad bank or you really pissed someone with a lot of pull off.
That being said if your unlucky you will get caught, and you will be tried in court. In the end of the day, jail or no jail, ask yourself this are you doing the right thing? If the answer is yes then even if you go to jail you know morally you did the right thing. Jail, charges, etc can be forgotten about and overcome, but you have to live with yourself for a pretty long time.
tonlilaz
Elite Member
- Feb 28, 2008
- 1,520
- 1,732
senario 3
- you see an ad in the paper for a free lawnmower some guy's selling on CL.
- he makes you fill out a 'free credit report' to make sure you're 'not a criminal that's gonna rip him off'
- two weeks later, there's no lawnmower, the guy disappears, and your credit card was charged for a recurring service....for an item that never existed in the first place.
senario 4
- you see an ad on BHW for a software that will get your website to page 1 of google
- you give the guy $200
- he disappears with your money...no software...or it some freeware he got off of a torrent site.
i can go on and on, but i think the post here is that most ewhores are promising something in return for something. if you're gonna offer something, you better be ready to offer something
- you see an ad in the paper for a free lawnmower some guy's selling on CL.
- he makes you fill out a 'free credit report' to make sure you're 'not a criminal that's gonna rip him off'
- two weeks later, there's no lawnmower, the guy disappears, and your credit card was charged for a recurring service....for an item that never existed in the first place.
senario 4
- you see an ad on BHW for a software that will get your website to page 1 of google
- you give the guy $200
- he disappears with your money...no software...or it some freeware he got off of a torrent site.
i can go on and on, but i think the post here is that most ewhores are promising something in return for something. if you're gonna offer something, you better be ready to offer something