Bit confused - link pyramids = 0 effect, direct links = turbo effect

Hey guys,

as I already wrote in another thread, I was out of the seo game for quite some years, did only paid advertising to make my living. But in recent months I kinda felt I want to go back to making websites / selling my own products etc etc

Sooo, long story short, I have this website, now 3 months old (5 months in total that google also knows about it, but 2 months were development time, so for 3 months the site is really online)

I'm trying to rank for a few highly competitive keywords:

kw #1:
global exact match searches / month: 1,830,000
local exact match searches / month: 1,000,000

kw #2:
global exact match searches / month: 823,000
local exact match searches / month: 450,000

kw #3:
global exact match searches / month: 450,000
local exact match searches / month: 201,000


My site is pretty big, over the last 3 months google has 180,000 pages indexed (from 500,000 total)

I didn't really started promoting the site until 10th of december, so now I'm making backlinks to it every 2-3 days now, for a month.

kw # 1 jumps in and out of top 100, mostly its around 90-95

kw #2 jumps between 35 - 45

kw #3 jumps between 35 - 45


Now I was reading a lot on here what linking strategies work now etc, and I build some 3 level link pyramids, where tier 1 are web 2.0s or do follow .edu links (not blog comments, but forum sigs or other pages where i could drop a link), tier 2 wikis and social bookmarks and tier 3 SB blasts

This seemed to have almost no effect somehow, even though many people on here say this is the way to go.


Then I started to make links directly to my website (meaning only 1 level... no backlinks to the backlinks but a high domain / IP diversity), about 1k wiki links so far (all unique domains), 1 - 1.5k social bookmarks (all unique domains), 1k web 2.0 links (from 50-100 domains)

and I saw a good increase in the serps almost instantly (like 1-2 days later) first the ranks jumped a lot... but since a week or so they are pretty stable for at least 2 of the 3 keywords...



Now my question is, is that also your experience atm? That direct linking seems to work better than link pyramids etc...?

Do you have any tips for me how I could make the jump to page 1 now? is there anything I'm overlooking atm?

What would you do?

did you get the tiers indexed when you tried the link wheel? the way i was told to do it was by indexing from top to bottom. maybe thats your problem

yep, tried to get it all indexed as good as I could, both the link wheels and direct links... Just google has some real problems indexing sb comments etc

the backlinks with a lot of content on the pages seem to get indexed easily.

If you have an old enough site, direct linking is ok, I think...

Strange because usually the "link juice" is passed down through the tiers. The idea of pyramids is to create authority tier ones that link to you... And what's the best way to become an authority site? Have other authority sites in your niche linking to you.



Thing is with seo is what works for one site may not work for another. Try interlinking and mixing up your link building to make it look more natural perhaps.


Hope this helps

Diverse backlinks would definitely help, though try to avoid forum profile links pointing directly to your site.

Direct blasting works and it has a much faster effect. Then again if you happen to get a manual review and you have a shitton of spam backlinks and the reviewer actually checks them out... You're fucked.

Look to add some high PR contextual links directly to you site. Or perhaps spread some high PR contextual links across your tier 1 pyramid sites, then randomly interlink the tier 1's to each other. This should boost the authority of all your tier 1 properties and feed back into your money site.

The issue here has nothing to do with link pyramids. Unless you're linked to by bbc.co.uk, cnn.com, nytimes.com, etc. ... you have no chance of ranking a 1.8 mil exact search keyword, or a 823k exact, or even a 450k exact with a 3 month blog.

I'm not saying it would be totally impossible. I'm saying if you had a snowballs chance of pulling it off, you would already know how to pull it off and wouldn't be asking questions about link pyramid effectiveness.

DamageX said:

Direct blasting works and it has a much faster effect. Then again if you happen to get a manual review and you have a shitton of spam backlinks and the reviewer actually checks them out... You're fucked.

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BS, you are guessing here.

DutchTrafficService said:

BS, your guessing here.

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You're not fucked, you can always contest a penalty but in the end those shit links will get devalued and you're back at square one. At best, those blasts will shoot you up the ranks, but they'll get removed or automatically devalued and you'll plummet down to nothing just as quickly. It'd end up a neverending game of constantly replacing the links with non-stop blasting and you're running in place just to stay where you are. Better off building high authority links.

DutchTrafficService said:

BS, you are guessing here.

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I'm pretty sure you're guessing more than I am.

phpbuilt said:

The issue here has nothing to do with link pyramids. Unless you're linked to by bbc.co.uk, cnn.com, nytimes.com, etc. ... you have no chance of ranking a 1.8 mil exact search keyword, or a 823k exact, or even a 450k exact with a 3 month blog.

I'm not saying it would be totally impossible. I'm saying if you had a snowballs chance of pulling it off, you would already know how to pull it off and wouldn't be asking questions about link pyramid effectiveness.

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what kind of reply is that, read my question, i'm ranking on page 4 for 2 of the keywords... there are also other kinds of websites than blogs fyi... silly



My question is not HOW to rank a website if you would care to read... I make my living online full-time for 10 years, it's just that I'm out of the seo game for quite some time, which still doesn't mean that I know nothing ;o)
The question was and is if you guys made similar experiences right now... That link pyramids don't work as well as direct links

Because to me it is confusing that building pyramids didn't have any effect really... I build some pyramids in November... no effect, started really promoting it on 10th of december... and after 1 week my site was in the top 100 for these three kw's I meantioned above, and since approx. 2 weeks the ranks for the last 2 kw's are stable.

turbohacker said:

Strange because usually the "link juice" is passed down through the tiers. The idea of pyramids is to create authority tier ones that link to you... And what's the best way to become an authority site? Have other authority sites in your niche linking to you.



Thing is with seo is what works for one site may not work for another. Try interlinking and mixing up your link building to make it look more natural perhaps.


Hope this helps

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I think this is the answer you are looking for. Also creating the tier is like a long term investment. The links that stick will mature and over time be even more valuable. Yes, blasting direct can and will move your site, problem is it can and will move it in the wrong direction if you are not careful.

I'm keeping an eye on the competition and see how many links they do, so that is the least thing I'm worried about

The point is that to me, it seems that link pyramids have no real effect anymore. That was merely what I wanted to discuss/find out, by hearing about experiences of others...

I read your question. You're assuming that the problem has to do with link pyramids, as if there are no other things in the mix that could possibly effect your ability to rank.

Sandbox doesn't ring a bell to you? You know, domain age? Never heard six months before? These are like super basic SEO concepts, if you won't acknowledge them then I don't even know where to go with this post.

Good luck getting top 10 on your keywords, don't let me pop your bubble. The difference between 35 and top 5 on a 450k exact is nothing, really.

phpbuilt said:

I read your question. You're assuming that the problem has to do with link pyramids, as if there are no other things in the mix that could possibly effect your ability to rank.

Sandbox doesn't ring a bell to you? You know, domain age? Never heard six months before? This is like super basic SEO concepts, if you won't acknowledge them then I don't even know where to go with this post.

Good luck getting top 10 on your keywords, don't let me pop your bubble. The difference between 35 and top 5 on a 450k exact is nothing, really.

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Don't know why you have to be a bitch about it really... I wanted to start a discussion not a flame fest, you come and tell me off, basically I know nothing, not even the seo basics, I'm a dreamer, yada yada yada

If you have nothing constructive to say, why you even post?

It's not the first website I built, ranked and made money off. I'm not so much worried about not being able to rank, it's just ... AGAIN: I was taking a break from seo, and things move fast so I was hoping to get some good advice and be able to discuss IF and WHY link pyramids MAYBE have no effect anymore.

I'm really not looking for people telling me that I'm basically a moron for attempting to rank for such and such keywords.

Again, constructive... or gtfo.


PS: "yeah the sandbox, the PROVEN sandbox, that definitely exists O__o"

Getwhatchuwant said:

I think this is the answer you are looking for. Also creating the tier is like a long term investment. The links that stick will mature and over time be even more valuable. Yes, blasting direct can and will move your site, problem is it can and will move it in the wrong direction if you are not careful.

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How many months do you think before these 1st tiers become authority?

madsem said:

If you have nothing constructive to say, why you even post?

Again, constructive... or gtfo.

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How is my post not constructive? I'm the only one who has pointed out the real issues in this entire thread, my posts are the most constructive of all.

You posted what is essentially a challenge to the link pyramid method. Lots of people have good success with it. Lots of people provide this service -- constructing link pyramids as a SEO service. Lots of newbies are out there looking for guidance on the best way to build effective links to their website.

You posted a thread that attempts to turn the method upside down. It is potentially confusing to newbies. It is potentially harmful advice (if not true) and people follow the advice and see less benefits to their websites. It is potentially harmful to those who have buy/sell threads which sell link pyramids.

So ... you have a 1.8 mil exact match keyword on a 3 month old website and you have deduced link pyramids are ineffective.

- maybe its the fact you're sandboxed with a 3 month old site
- maybe Google is suspicious of a 3 month old site with 180k pages indexed and needs time to run algorithms on your content
- maybe 1.8 mil exact search needs way more than link pyramids. most people aren't chasing after such high volume exacts, and for their purposes link pyramids work just fine
- there are over 200 factors when it comes to ranking, isolating link pyramids as being ineffective and totally ignoring the other 200 factors isn't conclusive at all

I could go on and on ... if you want to know my true purpose here, its to add a little balance to the accusation that link pyramids are ineffective, in my opinion they are effective.

madsem said:

Because to me it is confusing that building pyramids didn't have any effect really... I build some pyramids in November... no effect, started really promoting it on 10th of december... and after 1 week my site was in the top 100 for these three kw's I meantioned above, and since approx. 2 weeks the ranks for the last 2 kw's are stable.

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Pyramids take time to take effect, 3 - 6 weeks is pretty standard. Faster if you use linklicious to get them indexed. It could be that those pyramids are just now coming into effect now.