Becoming a Disciple

BreaknBrix said:
Don't read biographies. Study what some of the biggest wall street tycoons/investors are doing. Like Bill Ackman. The guy is a royal kunt but also a genius.

I watch a lot of shit like this:


WHY? Well, when a billionaire spends 50 million dollars of his own money just to **RESEARCH** a successful business.... then freely gives out all his findings for free... you're basically getting 50 million dollars worth of information in 3 hours.

You also learn a shitload about corporations, investors and reporters. How they strategize, enter new markets, you learn all the dirty little tricks these big companies do.

You also learn the dirty tricks investors use. Like Bill Ackman has been trying to short Herbalife stock for years just to capitalize on it. He does the same shit to other companies. And I love watching rich investors and business owners feud. Cause a lot of dirty laundry is exposed and you can learn a SHITTON of valuable information about economics, marketing, management, investing..... and most importantly making money.

I don't invest. But I eat these seminars up like candy.

-BB
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OMG this is EXACTLY what I needed!!! Thanks for understanding what I am trying to say haha.

Really appreciate this 100%.
 
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srb888 said:
And thanks, many thanks, guys for being patietly reading this rather long rant! lol
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Wow, that was such a noble act you did haha. I agree definitely, the "master's" blessings will always be with you!

It's crazy how devotion to something makes you take things to a new level.
 
BreaknBrix said:
WHY? Well, when a billionaire spends 50 million dollars of his own money just to **RESEARCH** a successful business.... then freely gives out all his findings for free... you're basically getting 50 million dollars worth of information in 3 hours.
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From Wikipedia: "On November 22, 2013, Ackman admitted on Bloomberg Television that Pershing Square's open short position in Herbalife was "$400 million to $500 million" in the red"

Looks like those 50mil research led to 10x loss - great choice for suggesting emulating :o
 
jazzc said:
Looks like those 50mil research led to 10x loss - great choice for suggesting emulating :o
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obviously the concept goes way over the head of someone who has literally nothing to contribute or any intentions of contributing in the thread topic.
 
FlightSchool said:
obviously the concept goes way over the head of someone who has literally nothing to contribute or any intentions of contributing in the thread topic.
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If you attend a convention on optimal control of affine nonlinear discrete time systems, you won't understand the value being presented. Similarly, it's not my problem if you can't penetrate into the value of my post above.
 
jazzc said:
If you attend a convention on optimal control of affine nonlinear discrete time systems, you won't understand the value being presented. Similarly, it's not my problem if you can't penetrate into the value of my post above.
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that's pretty funny and ironic actually. i don't have a problem with latching onto statements or misreading things like you do.

the purpose of this thread was to give me ideas on where to look for information, even if that means me clicking on anything related to the video, the type of document it is, the people, industry, report etc.

have i bothered to watch the video yet? no, but that doesn't mean I won't use BreakinBrix's post to get started somewhere on my objective.

The answer to my question is in his post, not the video itself.
 
FlightSchool said:
have i bothered to watch the video yet? no
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I watched about an hour of it, backtracking several times before doing my post. Why? Because I went to see the video unassuming. Turns out that presentation is just little more than a pitch fetch. Ackman is super anxious to pass the "sly & bad" message and makes silly comments- so much that even his paid stuff corrected him on stage at some point. See around 35+ min, where the lady tries to describe the two types of trainees. One type has a green card and the other a yellow. Ackman goes and says (my words) "see? immigrants associate green cards with good and yellow with penalty like in sports, that's why they chose those colors" and the lady who had done the research says quickly (my words) "they're actually pushing the yellow cards" :D

In other words, there is solid information on that video IF one can paddle through the sea of shit that's hidden into. Given that this was suggested for people who want to learn, this means that the possibility of successfully skipping the shit is low, ergo a bad choice of study.
 
FlightSchool said:
have i bothered to watch the video yet? no, but that doesn't mean I won't use BreakinBrix's post to get started somewhere on my objective.
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BnB's post was a good one and his opinion has been formed through his own research.

Same thing applies to Jazzc and before he commented here, he actually took the trouble to watch that video.

They may have differing opinions, but they clearly both watched the video.

You seem to have the strongest opinion and yet are the only one who has not watched the video.

If the people responding to your questions are putting more time and effort into their responses than you are, I think there could be a lesson there.

And my comment is intended to be constructive, not inflammatory :)
 
Trepanated said:
BnB's post was a good one and his opinion has been formed through his own research.

Same thing applies to Jazzc and before he commented here, he actually took the trouble to watch that video.

They may have differing opinions, but they clearly both watched the video.

You seem to have the strongest opinion and yet are the only one who has not watched the video.

If the people responding to your questions are putting more time and effort into their responses than you are, I think there could be a lesson there.

And my comment is intended to be constructive, not inflammatory :)
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sigh

look, i understand where you guys are coming from, and i appreciate that jazzc took the time to actually watch the video with I still haven't (im not going to front), but i got a general direction, which was the answer I was looking for.

when I first posted this thread, i didn't know whether to read biographies or read random finance articles.


thanks for all the help guys.
 
jazzc said:
I watched about an hour of it, backtracking several times before doing my post. Why? Because I went to see the video unassuming. Turns out that presentation is just little more than a pitch fetch. Ackman is super anxious to pass the "sly & bad" message and makes silly comments- so much that even his paid stuff corrected him on stage at some point. See around 35+ min, where the lady tries to describe the two types of trainees. One type has a green card and the other a yellow. Ackman goes and says (my words) "see? immigrants associate green cards with good and yellow with penalty like in sports, that's why they chose those colors" and the lady who had done the research says quickly (my words) "they're actually pushing the yellow cards" :D

In other words, there is solid information on that video IF one can paddle through the sea of shit that's hidden into. Given that this was suggested for people who want to learn, this means that the possibility of successfully skipping the shit is low, ergo a bad choice of study.
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I really appreciate what you did and wrote out. Sorry I came off hostile at you, I just got a little excited, and lately I've been in the zone regarding work and improving everything I do so I just jumped at you and your posts.
 
FlightSchool said:
when I first posted this thread, i didn't know whether to read biographies or read random finance articles.
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Read everything would be my advice - the wider your knowledge base the better.

You'd be surprised how useful information can be from a seemingly completely unrelated sphere.

In the case of Ackman though - he's obviously successful, but in the Herbalife case, he speculated and he is now trying to move or influence the market - and he's failing.

If you want to read about people who move markets, look up George Soros - he took on the UK Chancellor over Sterling, kicked his arse and made a billion - in my book that's a market mover.

I think people like Carl Icahn are worth following too - he's an activist investor who has been campaigning hard for Paypal to be split from Ebay and the Ebay board have been against it.

But yesterday Ebay announced they were doing exactly that - and their share price rose 7% on the news. So the market liked it and clearly Icahn was correct - not that's an investor to learn from.
 
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Trepanated said:
I think people like Carl Icahn are worth following too - he's an activist investor who has been campaigning hard for Paypal to be split from Ebay and the Ebay board have been against it.

But yesterday Ebay announced they were doing exactly that - and their share price rose 7% on the news. So the market liked it and clearly Icahn was correct - not that's an investor to learn from.
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Icahn is stating the obvious corporate problem that is responsible for breaking down successful companies - owners do not have control, management does. Management interests do not align with owner interests. An owner wants to multiply the value of its property. Management wants to multiply its extracted value. These things sometimes align, sometimes not. When not, winter is coming. This is exactly what happened in Japan in the 80s (not saying this alone caused the flop or that this was the most important thing - it was not; still an important factor). Interesting thing is Icahn is on the minority :o
 
jazzc said:
Icahn is stating the obvious corporate problem that is responsible for breaking down successful companies - owners do not have control, management does. Management interests do not align with owner interests. An owner wants to multiply the value of its property. Management wants to multiply its extracted value. These things sometimes align, sometimes not. When not, winter is coming. This is exactly what happened in Japan in the 80s (not saying this alone caused the flop or that this was the most important thing - it was not; still an important factor).
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I completely agree with you regarding owners and management as far as psyche and vested interests go, although ultimate control is in the hands of the shareholders.

It'll be interesting to see how the Ebay/Paypal split pans out.

Personally, I think Paypal as a business has more value and growth potential than Ebay - it's more pervasive, a more valuable service and can attack far more new markets than Ebay can.

I think ego was part of the reticence to go with the split - Ebay being the parent company, maybe some people would rather not see Paypal becoming the bigger entity?

Even billionaires can think with their hearts and not their heads in business, it seems.
 
Trepanated said:
ultimate control is in the hands of the shareholders.
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Only in abstract. Think of elections. Every X years, people vote for management. Does this equate in any way that voters have control of government decisions? :)
A shareholder does not have any real decision participation where it matters - the strategy and execution.

Personally, I think Paypal as a business has more value and growth potential than Ebay - it's more pervasive, a more valuable service and can attack far more new markets than Ebay can.

I think ego was part of the reticence to go with the split - Ebay being the parent company, maybe some people would rather not see Paypal becoming the bigger entity?

Even billionaires can think with their hearts and not their heads in business, it seems.
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Ebay/Paypal vs Ebay & Paypal was a case of conflict between manager interest and shareholder interest. Ebay keeping Paypal gives it a short/mid term advantage and thus secures gains for management. Paypal on its own has huge growth potential which is the shareholders interest. So, Icahn was simply consistent - he pushed for shareholder's value, not management value.
 
jazzc said:
Only in abstract. Think of elections. Every X years, people vote for management. Does this equate in any way that voters have control of government decisions? :)
A shareholder does not have any real decision participation where it matters - the strategy and execution.

Ebay/Paypal vs Ebay & Paypal was a case of conflict between manager interest and shareholder interest. Ebay keeping Paypal gives it a short/mid term advantage and thus secures gains for management. Paypal on its own has huge growth potential which is the shareholders interest. So, Icahn was simply consistent - he pushed for shareholder's value, not management value.
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Oh, I agree with you, on both scores. Although by shareholders I wasn't thinking of people like you and I who own a couple of shares here and there - more, the shareholders who between them have the controlling interest (either by direct ownership or proxy). Decisions like a corporate split ultimately come down to a vote.

I know one thing for sure, if I had a lot of money invested in Ebay, I would be very grateful to Carl Icahn right now.
 
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