avoiding to pay student loans

Let me try again to add my two creds to this without getting autoflagged (still don't understand why).

Do student loan lenders *really* ensure that students understand what they are getting into? Do they take the time to explain how long the student will be paying off the loan? Do they advise the students on how well job markets are doing and recommend coursework based on that?

Nope. They just want you to sign. We are programmed to believe that we must go to college and that it is normal to accept all this debt for something we aren't even sure we really need.

It's a grand hustle to keep people in debt for life. "You've got to get a degree so you can get a good job. Ahh but to get that good job you'll also need experience. And if you don't have any experience you can always work an entry level job. Of course that means it will take you forever to pay off that loan but that's okay. By the time that you get the good paying job we talked about, you'll be ready to sign a mortgage."

It's all slavery.

I'm really confused as to why education became so expensive. It's a book and someone to tell you what pages of that book to read. Why does that cost so much? So the person telling you what pages of the book to read can pay off their student loans.

I agree that going back on loans is a bad thing. But I don't think it's as black and white as some make it seem. I think a good percentage of students fell for the hustle.

Thats a great point mate. To add to that, i dont think any student intentionally say "I want to screw over the lenders...it becomes a situation where if you are lucky enough to find employment at all (speaking for the US), you now basically have to decide between rent and student loans. The fact of the matter is that most defaulting students are not out partying or spending money on fun...the economic climate just isnt in check with the fees and belief system that college education is worth the debt.

Phoenix7813 said:

Let me try again to add my two creds to this without getting autoflagged (still don't understand why).

Do student loan lenders *really* ensure that students understand what they are getting into? Do they take the time to explain how long the student will be paying off the loan? Do they advise the students on how well job markets are doing and recommend coursework based on that?

Nope. They just want you to sign. We are programmed to believe that we must go to college and that it is normal to accept all this debt for something we aren't even sure we really need.

It's a grand hustle to keep people in debt for life. "You've got to get a degree so you can get a good job. Ahh but to get that good job you'll also need experience. And if you don't have any experience you can always work an entry level job. Of course that means it will take you forever to pay off that loan but that's okay. By the time that you get the good paying job we talked about, you'll be ready to sign a mortgage."

It's all slavery.

I'm really confused as to why education became so expensive. It's a book and someone to tell you what pages of that book to read. Why does that cost so much? So the person telling you what pages of the book to read can pay off their student loans.

I agree that going back on loans is a bad thing. But I don't think it's as black and white as some make it seem. I think a good percentage of students fell for the hustle.

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All well and good, I do not disagree that there is a very large "take the students for a bath" thing built into the system but in the end nobody is forced to take out huge loans to get a degree. A lot of people right now are paying $50k+ a year for college, if you have the money (or get a full ride) that is all fine and dandy but putting yourself into that kind of debt is beyond stupid.

There are a lot of colleges out there where you can get a good education without spending that kind of money and there are a lot of ways to pay for school short of taking out huge loans.

Do the lenders prey on unsophisticated students to make a buck? Of course they do. No different than what went on during the housing bubble but in the end none of those people that took out loans they could not afford had a gun to their heads.

Where are the parents in this? My boy starts college next fall and if he had seriously considered taking out huge loans to pay for school I would have been WTF are you thinking and talked him down from the ledge. Fortunately he has acquired my distaste for debt so we did not have to have that conversation.

I really never thought of myself being on a "moral authority trip" but maybe I am. I believe the one thing you own that is really yours is your word and you should always do what you say you are going to do. Paying back money that you borrowed is just part of that.

bushbabie21 said:

In the US its slightly more complicated than you guys are making it out to be.

Historically, a college degree did lead to a better job. Due to the lowering of the value of a college degree and the horrific job market that is no longer the case, i have friends that are staying in school just so they dont have to start paying back the loans...this model is flawed becuase at a certain point, you need to hit the lottery in order to pay back all these loans. Also lenders like sallie mae dont give a monkeys ass if you are unemployed or even fell and broke your neck...like that mafia saying" F!@# you pay us!

Then you also have the situation of exorbitant fees from the colleges because they know you are boworring what is essentially unchecked money. So misc charges, ever increasing book charges and tuition hikes(required by federal law-in order to recieve federal funds, 10% of a colleges income must come from non-govt funding sources, which means that tuition hikes are built into the system)

And quite frankly in the US, the education market and the military are the only things booming...So if you can find a way to beat the system i say do it...hands down!!!!! Everyone will always have some moral agenda to push onto you until they are in the same boat. I mean this is blackhat forum and if everyone is so moral, why are 99% of the posts dealing with beating the big G or finding some tricks/methods that are clever. I have learned over the years that you really have to be careful about getting sucked into peoples "moral authority" trips.

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I agree with most everything in your post but in the end it is every persons responsibility to watch out for themselves and their family. It is not the bankers job to watch out for those students, it is the students and their parents.

The problem is that so many people have bought into the "I can not put something off because I do not have the money" mentality. They just borrow themselves into the lifestyle they think they deserve. Look around you and for the most part that is what you see, these overly large student loans are just an extension of this thinking.

Phoenix7813 said:

Let me try again to add my two creds to this without getting autoflagged (still don't understand why).

Do student loan lenders *really* ensure that students understand what they are getting into? Do they take the time to explain how long the student will be paying off the loan? Do they advise the students on how well job markets are doing and recommend coursework based on that?

Nope. They just want you to sign. We are programmed to believe that we must go to college and that it is normal to accept all this debt for something we aren't even sure we really need.

It's a grand hustle to keep people in debt for life. "You've got to get a degree so you can get a good job. Ahh but to get that good job you'll also need experience. And if you don't have any experience you can always work an entry level job. Of course that means it will take you forever to pay off that loan but that's okay. By the time that you get the good paying job we talked about, you'll be ready to sign a mortgage."

It's all slavery.

I'm really confused as to why education became so expensive. It's a book and someone to tell you what pages of that book to read. Why does that cost so much? So the person telling you what pages of the book to read can pay off their student loans.

I agree that going back on loans is a bad thing. But I don't think it's as black and white as some make it seem. I think a good percentage of students fell for the hustle.

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Geez... we are getting way off the OP original request... but I don't really think there is a way out of student loans. I dunno about the UK but as someone else mentioned, in the US even bankruptcy won't clear that out. On top of the the government will garnish your wages if you remain in default long enough. (One guess how I know about that. :| )

But I think I've come up with a 100% foolproof method to prevent this sort of thing that unfortunately will never ever be implemented. It would take maybe 30 minutes to an hour tops.

Solution: Senior year in HS have a non biased person (financial counselor?) come in and give a presentation about the realities of college, loans, the job market etc.

I don't know if times have changed that much since my HS years but when I was in school it was ground into our heads that if we wanted a good job that we had to go to college. If you didn't go to college you'd end up digging ditches. (Which oddly enough, the ditch diggers are probably still gainfully employed while those with business degrees are assistant managers in fast food restaurants.)

But we will not see a solution like this because lending institutions hold major influence in many aspects of life.

I'll stop before I get into the whole new world order stuff.

Phoenix7813 said:

...
I'm really confused as to why education became so expensive. It's a book and someone to tell you what pages of that book to read. Why does that cost so much? So the person telling you what pages of the book to read can pay off their student loans.
...

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It costs so much because it is possible to cost so much. Without these enabling loans, the year wouldn't be $50k but more like $5k (or the college would have to go out of business due to lack of 'clients').

Sure, some are in awe of the big players pulling it off and would like to copy them in order to become a part of overselling a hype but it is immoral. It is a shyster mentality to think it is right to take advantage of others' bad decisions. Those who disagree with such strategies are not necessarily angry or envious. I mean most people I know would have to be really, really desperate in order to ruin someone else's future so they make money themselves.

But personal opinions are irrelevant in the bigger picture. People wonder why companies start to outsource even highly qualified jobs. It is because domestic college graduates need 5x more money. Not for themselves, but to pay for something whose value had been artificially inflated (a bubble in economic terms). So Intel and MS turn to other countries, in effect letting lenders go bankrupt as well. And they don't care, it was a creditor's bad decision after all

However if the lender is big enough he will get bailed out by the government to avoid even far bigger problems. Guess who will be paying?

Now the bigger picture starts to look very simple: people are enabled to pay more than it actually costs -> a bubble forms -> people can't pay way way more -> the bubble bursts -> people's kids have to pay for the consequences. This isn't how capitalism works and this is why old money (investors) trumps new money (loan sharks) everytime.

The swiss and other powerful banks operate in a completely different way than misunderstandings like Lending Tree et al., who rely on poor schmucks going way beyond their means. So if I wanted to study and copy someone, that would be the Credit Suisse folks.

You had a huge loan for a school/degree that had guaranteed you a job, yet now you dont have a job?

Hmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

THE SECRET ART OF STRATEGIC DEFAULT:

take as much money out in loans as possible. example: $150,000

stop paying now and wait until the currency inflates to the point that the minimum wage is $150,000 per hour.

Then you can pay back all your debt in an hours work.


Heres a real-life example of this working. In the Philippines their currency was 1:1 with the US dollar back in the early 1970's and the minimum wage was 10 philppine dollars per day.. Now its 43:1 and the minimum wage is 500 philippine dollars a day. This means if I borrowed in 1970 and started paying back now, I would only have to pay back 2 pennies for every $1 borrowed. This is also the fate of every fiat currency where money from the central bank literally grows on trees.

richelld, it's a great strategy for coutnries. America and the western world are in huge debt but they don't intend to pay back the real value. Notice how they are not indebted to each other

When things get serious, hyperdevaluation (not inflation) will be allowed for a short time, China and Russia will receive several shiploads of worthless paper and that will be the end of the i-don't-know how many trillions in debt.

But it doesn't work for domestic relationships. Almost all loan terms allow for interest readjustment, usually tied to quotes from the central bank (fed). So if you took a loan that could buy a pound of gold 50 years ago you still have to pay back at least the same amount that can buy a pound of gold today. Great minds have been refining the system for centuries.

It depends on the type of student loan you get. If you get an unsecured student loan you can simply default and they send you to collections, unless they decide they want to sue you which most banks opt out of unless it is a substantial amount (at the discretion of the bank).

Now if it is a federally backed loan, it is a different story. They will tack on tons of interest penalties, and chase after you forever.

There is a lot more too it. Moral of the story is, pay them if they are federally backed. They will not go away.

I loved this man...i giggled a little because that is either the best idea in the world or the absolute worst, depending on wheather that hyper-inflation happens.

richelld said:

THE SECRET ART OF STRATEGIC DEFAULT:

take as much money out in loans as possible. example: $150,000

stop paying now and wait until the currency inflates to the point that the minimum wage is $150,000 per hour.

Then you can pay back all your debt in an hours work.


Heres a real-life example of this working. In the Philippines their currency was 1:1 with the US dollar back in the early 1970's and the minimum wage was 10 philppine dollars per day.. Now its 43:1 and the minimum wage is 500 philippine dollars a day. This means if I borrowed in 1970 and started paying back now, I would only have to pay back 2 pennies for every $1 borrowed. This is also the fate of every fiat currency where money from the central bank literally grows on trees.

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even if you never did pay it back whats the loss? just keep all your property in the name of a foreigner. you can even get a US bank account in the name of someone overseas with no SSN required for $100 and a scan of that persons passport, then you can walk around with their debit card using the ATM for all your living expenses. the overseas person wouldn't even know they had a US bank account either.

wholesalereplica said:

bankruptcy??? not a great start to your career though

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If you live in the US and file bankruptcy, your student loans are not included in the package. Sorry to burst the bubble..

Also, what if you want to go back. You are screwed because they look at that.

BassTrackerBoats said:

Here's my take on this from someone who owned a business where I lent other companies' money and periodically lent my own.

Pay it back!

You signed papers that stated you would pay it back under specific terms with specific interest, whether variable or fixed.
​

Act like a man and show the world that you were raised properly and know that if you sign a contract, you fulfill that contract.

Anything less is chicken feathers.

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Oh check your morals out!!!!

Pity you're not sat on the same moral high ground when you're stealing other people's content, isn't it???

Copied from another thread...
Whilst I can't comment on the number/quality of links that you'll get with this Linkpushing service, what I can say is that the articles they use to submit your links are copied, unoriginal content, stolen from other people's websites and snatched from ezine!

And yes, I am a newbie here but here's the proof...

type in twittergun followed by the most popular TLD and look for the 'Histoty of the Guiness World Records'

That text is copied and spun from and Ezine article titled 'History of Guiness World Records'
There are tons more on lots of Linkpushing's own websites and Web 2.0 sites but I'm a newbie and can't post links atm.

I'm not sure about you guys but if I'm paying my hard earned bucks to get backlinks, I want them to stick and not be removed and/or accused of copyright infringement and plagiarism.

This guy Greg says he "writes and then writes some more"

Sorrry, but that sig needs changing to "steals, spins and spins some more!"

Although i agree with you for the mostpart, lets not make this a smear campaign...All is debated in love (hopefully) No personal attacks.

original author said:

Oh check your morals out!!!!

Pity you're not sat on the same moral high ground when you're stealing other people's content, isn't it???

Copied from another thread...
Whilst I can't comment on the number/quality of links that you'll get with this Linkpushing service, what I can say is that the articles they use to submit your links are copied, unoriginal content, stolen from other people's websites and snatched from ezine!

And yes, I am a newbie here but here's the proof...

type in twittergun followed by the most popular TLD and look for the 'Histoty of the Guiness World Records'

That text is copied and spun from and Ezine article titled 'History of Guiness World Records'
There are tons more on lots of Linkpushing's own websites and Web 2.0 sites but I'm a newbie and can't post links atm.

I'm not sure about you guys but if I'm paying my hard earned bucks to get backlinks, I want them to stick and not be removed and/or accused of copyright infringement and plagiarism.

This guy Greg says he "writes and then writes some more"

Sorrry, but that sig needs changing to "steals, spins and spins some more!"

Click to expand...

why not just ask, "how do i steal money from someon?"

For a UK student loan move country. You are supposed to pay out of your own accord if you move country but if you dont what can they do? They will most likely sell it to a debt collection agency in said country, but this doesnt normally happen with UK loans. After 7 years of not working in the UK you can dispute it in court and get it written off.

Source: my dad did this.

TNphoneman said:

Well the one sure way is to die, but that is probably not an option.

You can bankrupt student loans in the US but it has to be longer than 10 years or so since you defaulted. Not impossible but very difficult. More than likely you would get it forgiven and get a 1099 as income and owe the taxes on the money (in the US).

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Yep. You have to show you've made a consistent effort to pay them as well. Can be done, but very difficult as the loan companies will fight it tooth and nail since they don't want people doing this. You end up paying so much in lawyer fees that it almost doesn't add up.

At least for the U.S.:

Student loans are difficult, but not impossible, to discharge in bankruptcy. To do so, you must show that payment of the debt "will impose an undue hardship on you and your dependents."

Courts use different tests to evaluate whether a particular borrower has shown an undue hardship. A common test is the Brunner test which requires a showing that 1) the debtor cannot maintain, based on current income and expenses, a "minimal" standard of living for the debtor and the debtor's dependents if forced to repay the student loans; 2) additional circumstances exist indicating that this state of affairs is likely to persist for a significant portion of the repayment period of the student loans; and 3) the debtor has made good faith efforts to repay the loans. (Brunner v. New York State Higher Educ. Servs. Corp., 831 F. 2d 395 (2d Cir. 1987). Not all courts use this test. Some courts will be more flexible, some less.

I paid mine back.

i yhink the whole thing bout paying for college via student loan is bull...currently a student right now