Anyone wanting a refund

I have refused a few refunds lately because the refund request is made minutes within purchase and sometimes even before they have been sent the product saying that it was not up to their standards. I think its because the payment processor I use automatically sends out a download link to a product that is not there as I send product manually and they never intended on paying in the first place so its just as much the customer as it is the supplier!!!

Essential Clix said:

We've decided to make a new BST rule. From here on out, all sellers must clearly list their refund policy in their thread.

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This is a good call and will definitely be helpful for all parties involved.

Essential Clix said:

We've decided to make a new BST rule. From here on out, all sellers must clearly list their refund policy in their thread.

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I agree that this is a good move. In fact I thought this was ready to go into effect 1 December.

In any case, I don't see why rogue business practices (i.e. no refund policy with no exceptions) should be ok in this forum. If the product does in no way resemble the description in the sales copy, that's not not only false advertising, it's illegal. Are we holding ourselves above decent business practices?

If customer service is an issue, that's the vendor's issue; and it's something for which they should have planned prior to product release. That's the difference between a real business / service ... and something else.

If we're to espouse caveat venditor ... since we're so BH and dangerous, let's also equally espouse caveat emptor.

Best,
Sine

i ve seen the worse shit sold in internet marketing forums - not bhw necessary- and i think blackhat is the industry where the most shitty product are sold for the greatest amounts of cash.

Software that have not been tested fully, barely working, full of bugs, totally crap - if you were to get approved and checked by an organization before being allowed to sell a product , like it is the cases in other industries, you would have never passed the preliminary check, -, 2-3 pages "ebooks" written in a barely understanding english sold for 500$ or more, high school kids having only 15-16 years old, who were cashing in thousands of $$ on a soft that can be easily done within an hour by an average high school student studying programming, and the list can go on.

Yes, refunds are necessary , especially for those shitty products.

Here is a good one I just got in my inbox:

Hi!

I've recently purchased the Poll Factory (Oct. XX, 2008, Transaction
ID #XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX)
and would like to request a refund for it.

It's not about your script definitely. It works excellent, but I
cannot profit from it in a way
I thought it would be profitable.

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See, it's MY fault that people can't profit. so now I loose $100, and this guy gets to keep my script that "works perfectly" because he doesn't know how to use it.

UGGG i hate this shit, i really do.

My 2 cents worth...

I have purchased a ton of make money online products (software, scripts, courses, etc).
Trying not to blur the truth, there have many many times that the actual product failed to live up to the claims of the hype on the sales page. In fact, in my case, I would have to think the majority of the time, the hype greatly exceeds the substance. Now what? I guess I'm supposed to eat it. I don't think so. Now I always look for the guarantee, so that if they mislead me into buying, it's coming right back. Let me also say, the number of times Ive requested a refund is well under 5%. I'm not so tolerant these days however.

Uptownbulker said:

Sorry, Charlie; we accept only the finest tuna!

They gave you the car; oil in the engine, gas in the tank and the key.

You have to be smart enough, willing enough and ballsy enough to turn the key to start the car.

Then you have to drive the car and you can't drive a car by merely pushing buttons.

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The last time I looked even a car came with a manual. Some of the junk here doesn't even come with that.

Uptown, do you feel taken advantage of or something? I have never seen one post where you are for the buyer. If the seller dislikes selling to people who don't understand how to install or use the product, don't sell it to newbies. It is as simple as that. If you sell to noobs, you are bound to get noob questions.

What don't you get?

There's abuse on both sides, buyers and sellers. Legitimate sellers need to accept there are idiot buyers that will do chargebacks. That's just the cost of doing business.

Buyers need to fully read, understand, and perform due diligence before they buy. Need to check with the BBB before they buy, not after.

Uptownbulker said:

If a guy buys a wrench from me and cannot figure out how to use it because he does not follow instructions or is simply too lazy or stupid to properly use the aforementioned wrench, am I obligated to refund?

Hell, no I'm not!

People want to push buttons and have fookin' magic happen!

It don't work that way!

You have to pick up the wrench, put it on the nut or bolt in the RIGHT way and then you turn the wrench to tighten or loosen the aforementioned nut or bolt.

Didn't put the wrench on the nut or bolt properly and it slipped off and knocked out two front teeth?

Not MY problem!

That's YOUR baby!

Not strong enough to turn that rusty bolt or nut?

Ain't my deal!

I only sold you the TOOL!

I sold what was described and I described what I sold.

I cannot be responsible for buyer remorse, nor is buyer remorse a reason to refund.

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With all due respect... I'd love to see how this works out for you as a stated "Refund Policy" Mind if we use an escrow account?


It seems to me that stuff sold here to other members needs to pass a higher standard than if someone wanted to buy it from a sales page.

We've all seen the promo gangs here and elsewhere. Buyers want to believe that your product is the Mega Shit, that's all good and fine. But you know, even my dog is smart enough to know that "You don't shit near where you eat". In fact, he always poops far away from where he eats, drinks, and greets his family.

OBTW, when you offered the tool for sale, did you list the skills need to use it? Did you include a manual? Does your tool work on all computers? if not what type system does it work on? Do I need root access? yada, yada I know, you aren't responsible...

Peace, Out.

The title could use a lot more qualification, but, I wanted to leave it generalized too.

Buyers need to realize that this isn't Wal Mart, and they have to be far more careful about what they buy. Sellers need to make sure they have all their bases covered. It is a two way street.

Even if the sellers have to give the buyers a test to see if they are smart enough, or not too lazy, to buy and use the product, which, may not be a bad idea in some cases.

oldenstylehats said:

This is by far the WORST part about selling on BHW. The requests for refunds, which have been extremely rare for me personally, I take on a case-by-case basis. The chargebacks 30 or 60 days later are just a real downer and I wish people would try and talk with me instead.

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Face it, the people here on BHW are here because we want something for nothing. We are willing to skirt the edges of morality, and even legality, in order to get paid more commission or get a better search engine placement. Now, you come to this group of people and try to sell stuff to us, and you get bent out of shape when you get screwed? Duh!

Caveat vendor.

That's Latin for, "If you want to sell shit here you better cover your ass."

If I buy a product and it doesn't work (function or as advertised)
Step 1. Re-read instructions
Step 2. Research forums and other customer experiences
Step 3. Contact customer support
Step 4. Post public question to see if others have same experience
Step 5. Request refund

I think that if someone is releasing a product that is faulty or the advertisement is false, the can assume there is going to be a backlash.

I also think that if I am having a problem and no one else is, more than likely its my problem.

If it is determined that its not my problem, I am getting my money back one way or another, be it a refund or causing at least that much in lost business for the company/vendor.

Recently I had my account frozen at sportsbook.com, I was pissed off I wanted to bet on some games. I called them and they told me that they had frozen my account because I had logged in from multiple IP's, I was pissed. Then they told me that one was in Amsterdam, which is my VPN. I was not pissed, and I felt like an idiot. Now I have to fax them all this shit to get my money unfrozen, which is a hassle but its totally my fault.

The reason I mention this is because BetUS has been trying to get my business and when I finally agreed, they said that I needed to work out my issue with sportsbook.com first. The two companies are not affiliated but they share a common database of problem customers. I think that people would be far less inclined to start asking for refunds if the next time they went to purchase something they were told "No.. You are a risk".

EDIT: I left out check to see if it has a buyer beware, as-is, or no return policy.

I can't actually remember the last time I had to ask for a refund.

I find refunds tend to be an excellent form of feedback. I put the best into my products, if people buy and don't like, by all means return it. It shows me that with a lot of returns I may have to step back and re-evaluate.

When people request a refund, I don't hesitate I refund and move on. The trick is to kill them with kindness, I refund them, then I send them something similar and ask for their feedback. I also tell them that I am updating the original product they refunded and need their help to make it better. It makes the customer feel important. If it is a legitimate customer, they will stick by you in the future.

If you are a seller, step into the buyers shoes, how would you want to be treated in the same situation. With a digital item, its no sweat off my balls to give a refund. You can only make 10% of people happy 100% of the time.

The responses to this thread have proven two things.

1. The seller's who sell proven method's and offer great support don't mind issuing refunds.
2. The seller's who don't offer the above are the one's bitching.

pollfactory said:

Here is a good one I just got in my inbox:
See, it's MY fault that people can't profit. so now I loose $100, and this guy gets to keep my script that "works perfectly" because he doesn't know how to use it.

UGGG i hate this shit, i really do.

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That really sucks pollfactory. I've heard nothing but glowing praise for your product from a wide spectrum of successful marketers. Plus your sales literature is very thorough in terms of what the product does and what to expect.

this buyer clearly thought it would attract traffic like a supermagnet all buy itself.

Um...What about ClickBanger? I guess that was the buyer's fault too. People were too stupid and lazy to get it to work. I mean, it was vetted by BHW, so it must have worked properly. Lazy ass buyers didn't feel like putting in the work to rewrite the script. I wouldn't have refunded you $1k either. I mean, you got SOMETHING (even though it was a worthless piece of shit, that's still your fault). Not their fault you couldn't get it to work.