1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Anyone wanting a refund

Discussion in 'The Shit List' started by caretaker2007, Nov 23, 2008.

  1. caretaker2007

    caretaker2007 Power Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    454
    Occupation:
    To create income streams
    Location:
    In a 6 by 3 plot
    Home Page:
    People that want refunds need to realize the market they are dealing in, with a lot of unscrupulous people that will steal a business operator blind and not think twice about it. And the customer should also realize that anything that they say the scammers and thieves say too, so it is all worn thin and a business operator can not believe any of it any more, or drop the business and give everything away for free.

    In this BH world refunds are not possible, it is not like you have bought an item at a store and they can get it back with no use.

    People need to get real, and, when offered a replacement, take it.

    There is more to say, but I will get no where telling you what I really think of you all.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. WickednDivine

    WickednDivine Executive VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    344
    I dont mind refunds so much, it's the chargebacks that kill me!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  3. justthinking

    justthinking BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    463
    Although I have never asked for a refund, I couldn't disagree with you more. When a customer buys a 'product', they expect the product to work. I don't care if it is BH software or a television, it should operate as described.

    As for the current financial crisis we find ourselves in, it doesn't give a business/company the right to sell defective products to the public. It is called the 'price of doing business'. Furthermore, if you are talking about BH software, where does it say a small team of developers have the right to sell a product before it is stable. I mean some members are actually 'upgrading' their products after they have sold it to many people. Really? After a week and numerous complaints.

    I am sure you would be equally upset if you went and bought a 'product', and it didn't do its job from day one. Of course, you would be. Everybody is.

    I don't know what you are referring to though. Could you be more specific? I doubt it will change my mind though.

    Did you actually copy and paste this response from another thread? I am just curious.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2008
  4. aliskorn

    aliskorn Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    459
    Occupation:
    Psychologist & programmer
    Well caretaker,if the buyer just wants a refund..then you are right. If the buyer wants a refund because the software is crap or doesn`t work as advertized or doesn`t have a manual or anything that it`s supposed to have,then you are wrong.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  5. lewi

    lewi Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    818
    well said aliskorn it all depends on the circumstances to be honest.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. shylesson

    shylesson Power Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    2,090
    Location:
    ‹^›‹(•¿•)›‹^›
    I disagree as well. All your post does is protect the sellers, but what about the buyers? The buyers keep you in business and you want to offer products that are buggy or don't operate as they should and wonder why people are not satisfied with a replacement product? If they paid for one product over another, they WANTED one product over another. Why would they want something different? If they want a refund, they should be given it so they can go and get a product that WILL operate as they need it to. They obviously bought the software, program, or whatever for a specific reason.

    Customer service is all about making sure that the customer is actually helped, not belittled and held to a scammer status just because they expect the same thing you would expect if you bought a faulty product. You would want help getting it to run or would simply just want a refund. I think for those who ask for a refund without trying to find out if they can get the product to work are the ones you should try and help before issuing one, but if you both try to get an error fixed and cannot, what right do you have to hold money for a product that you offer and does not work? You'd be content buying a TV that doesn't work even if the technician tried to get it to? Of course not! Don't even try to say that you would because you know better. ESPECIALLY in the economy as you say it. People don't want to go around wasting money and that is exactly what they do with buggy products.

    By your post you are giving me the right to sell faulty products and keep the money so I can 'protect myself'. BS I'm protecting myself! And no, it does not make it better if I sell a product thinking it actually does work. If a customer says it doesn't and asks for help fixing it, it is up to your customer service to service them. Why do you think it even exists????? To HELP people, not tell them they are SOL cause now you have their money.


    eta: obviously the 'you' in the post is not directed at any one person---just the sellers that think that load is actually sermon.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  7. dsizzle

    dsizzle Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    15
    I'm with you Shylesson. Besides, misrepresenting a product is grounds enough for requesting a refund.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  8. BMXRider

    BMXRider BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    191
    When it doesn't even work is the worst! I bought a program (Max Influence) and attempted to run it. It came up with an error, so I sent the owner a screenshot and he was stupid enough to say that was normal. I asked how is it normal if it doesn't work and I want a refund, he never answered.
     
  9. aмillionaírе

    aмillionaírе Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    358
    I disagree with the sentiments of the OP, and I think it defeats the purpose of the business world, kills the whole respect of a BST, and encourages foul behavior indeed. I wholeheartedly agree with justthinking, and the long yet true post of shylesson.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  10. YoungGuns

    YoungGuns Regular Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    267
    Location:
    Tennessee, US
    I disagree with you for the most part.

    Like when I buy proxies stating that 75% are US. I expect a high percentage to be US, as stated. If I get 100% Canadian, which happened, I get angry and want a refund, because that is a direct lie.
     
  11. Uptownbulker

    Uptownbulker BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    477
    If a guy buys a wrench from me and cannot figure out how to use it because he does not follow instructions or is simply too lazy or stupid to properly use the aforementioned wrench, am I obligated to refund?

    Hell, no I'm not!

    People want to push buttons and have fookin' magic happen!

    It don't work that way!

    You have to pick up the wrench, put it on the nut or bolt in the RIGHT way and then you turn the wrench to tighten or loosen the aforementioned nut or bolt.

    Didn't put the wrench on the nut or bolt properly and it slipped off and knocked out two front teeth?

    Not MY problem!

    That's YOUR baby!

    Not strong enough to turn that rusty bolt or nut?

    Ain't my deal!

    I only sold you the TOOL!

    I remember early in my eBay experience, I listed a '42 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special divider window car...so rare you can't believe it; car needed complete restoration and I advertised it as such and had over 50 pics of the car, hosted off eBay so that there was NO doubt what was listed. A guy buys this car for like $6K(A MORE than fair price!), spends about $900 to get it shipped and then three weeks later it starts.

    Buyer: "This car doesn't run!"

    Me: "Yes, that is what I wrote in the listing."

    Buyer: "This car needs to be completely restored!"

    Me: "Yes, that is what I wrote in the listing."

    Buyer:"I can't afford to restore this car, can I have a refund and will you also refund my shipping costs plus pay for the return shipping to you?"

    Me: "No."

    Buyer: "Bitch, piss, moan and groan!"

    See what I mean?

    I sold what was described and I described what I sold.

    I cannot be responsible for buyer remorse, nor is buyer remorse a reason to refund.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  12. graphicnut

    graphicnut Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    240
    Well sai UB :))) People are getting like dp users here.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  13. graphicnut

    graphicnut Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    1,333
    Likes Received:
    240
    helloall, are you using your feet now mate?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. wealthy199

    wealthy199 BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    I am with you 100%. I'm absolutely fine with people asking for refunds and I usually encourage the practise wherever possible (basically everywhere).

    The one thing that drives me round the bend though is "Unauthorized Transactions" aka chargebacks. If you want a refund grow some balls and ask for one don't go crying to your credit card company.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  15. oldenstylehats

    oldenstylehats Elite Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,893
    Likes Received:
    1,196
    This is by far the WORST part about selling on BHW. The requests for refunds, which have been extremely rare for me personally, I take on a case-by-case basis. The chargebacks 30 or 60 days later are just a real downer and I wish people would try and talk with me instead.
     
  16. Uptownbulker

    Uptownbulker BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    477
    Sorry, Charlie; we accept only the finest tuna!

    They gave you the car; oil in the engine, gas in the tank and the key.

    You have to be smart enough, willing enough and ballsy enough to turn the key to start the car.

    Then you have to drive the car and you can't drive a car by merely pushing buttons.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. shylesson

    shylesson Power Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    2,090
    Location:
    ‹^›‹(•¿•)›‹^›
    This is apples and tires here. You are speaking of buying an average, everyday, non-revolutionary object versus something that has been created on the whim of a programmer. Just as people are creating softwares and programs to help us make things run smoother, faster, or make money, these programs did not exist before and do require help getting them to function. You cannot create something new, expect it to work for everyone, and not offer customer support on that product just because you know how it works [imagine that..you created it], and say it should work. Additionally, mates asking for refunds are doing so on the basis that the product does not operate as it says it should NOT on the fact that THEY can't work it. And if it is based on if they can't work it, you still need to offer the support to help them getting it to work. Obviously if they say they can't get it to work, they are actually TRYING to get it to work so they are not lazy, and just because they cannot operate something they never knew existed until you created it does not make them stupid. So no, your analogy does not work here.

    No. People want the product to operate as it SAYS it should. That wrench says it will help you unscrew a nut or bolt, and if it does not, it is not doing as it says it will. Of course the operator must use it properly, but without given instructions, HOW????? Of course you don't need instructions on a wrench. It's been around and people have been shown and know how to use them. But a product that you just created? How am I supposed to know how it works if not for you telling me?

    Additionally, the wrench will work in most instances; this is not what people are talking about here in regards to refunds. They are saying that the products DO NOT WORK PERIOD. This is when a refund should be offered. When people even try to help [as they should--customer service] and cannot get it to work for their client, they should offer a refund. The OP says that refunds should not be needed and that the clients should take another product and that is NOT what should happen. If you go and buy a wrench that doesn't work, you do not want to get offered a hammer. Your wrench analogy still does not uphold because wrenches will actually work out of the box---may not be on all nuts and bolts, but they will work. These people are referring to products that do not work out of the box.


    Of course--you sold something and the buyer got what was offered. But these buyers are trying to say that they are NOT GETTING WHAT WAS OFFERED. The program calls for a working bot that does xyz and all it does is give error error error. This is not the same scenario. You are again comparing apples and tires. Both may be round, but they can hardly serve similar purposes.


    Bottom line, if it does not work, it should be refunded. If you as the programmer cannot help the mates get it working, the mates should not have to eat the costs just because they TRUSTED you to deliver what your product stated it would deliver.


    eta: @evil: sure for products that actually work, people shouldn't be expecting refunds left and right just because they can't use it or realize that it's not what they really wanted. But in instances where a product does not work, is faulty, and cannot be helped by support, a refund should be in order.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  18. wealthy199

    wealthy199 BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    1,088
    In the end of the day, things just aren't black and white.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  19. aliskorn

    aliskorn Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2008
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    459
    Occupation:
    Psychologist & programmer
    Let`s say I buy a software. The software has no graphic user interface.,it only has a command console. The software works perfectly. Problem is I don`t know the commands that can and should be executed in order for the software to do my bidding. Why? Because the seller was too lazy (or just a d*ck) to put up a manual with instruction of use. What I have here is:
    1. The software works
    2. The software doesn`t work for me because I don`t know how to use it.
    With your logic in this case the buyer is to blame. That`s flawed logic my friend. Should the buyer learn coding? NO! That`s why he bought the software in the first place! If I sell someone a crutch,I know that guy uses the crutch because he has problems walking on his own not because he`s a freaking marathon runner!
    In this case the buyer is entitled to a refund.Oh,and you can`t compare digital products with wrenches,lol.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  20. Essential Clix

    Essential Clix Executive VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,755
    Likes Received:
    2,791
    Location:
    USA
    We've decided to make a new BST rule. From here on out, all sellers must clearly list their refund policy in their thread.

    EDIT: They must also abide by it
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6