Any idea what this crazy money s*** is about?

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mohsinmirza

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I've a few guys i know back from pakistan making crazy amount of money by some sort of voip termination programs.. they have thousands of sims and about 30-40 phones at a time with tons of networking equipment and doing some shit. one of my friend just got a chance to had a couple second glance of the view and that's all we know..
but man those guys are making crazy amount of money, I bet you would not believe it if i tell you the amount. but its definately way more then 98% of so called internet marketers make in their whole career honestly.

if anybody know about it please share and i'd love to get my hands on it too if possible. I am in u.s now but it might be more useful for this business in some way i guess..

other then that if anyone have any other idea does not matter if relating this or not, please p.m me your skype or phone number(u.s only)

thank you,
 
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Yeah, I might have an idea... That's not blackhat, that's straight criminal activity...
 
They do what is known as International Call Termination.

They idea is that with their simboxes they are terminating international calls as local ones.

So lets say that the market price for terminating international calls to Pakistan is 0.5$ per minute, and the local price for Pakistan is 0.1$ per minute.

What they do is that they buy a lot of local SIM cards and they setup them on SIM Boxes (google what sim boxes are). With that done they can sell international traffic with local price. And if you manage to get 1 Milion minutes / month you have just made 400000$ in one month.


This is illegal by the way and it is usually done on 3rd world countries where the mobile/fix operators dont have any kind of fraud protection setup.
 
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In my country there are some automated calls you get from weird numbers and if you answer the call you get ripped for crazy amount of money, 10-20$ a minute

Haven't heard of this since last year, but might be something like this
 
blackice6666 said:
They do what is known as International Call Termination.

They idea is that with their simboxes they are terminating international calls as local ones.

So lets say that the market price for terminating international calls to Pakistan is 0.5$ per minute, and the local price for Pakistan is 0.1$ per minute.

What they do is that they buy a lot of local SIM cards and they setup them on SIM Boxes (google what sim boxes are). With that done they can sell international traffic with local price. And if you manage to get 1 Milion minutes / month you have just made 400000$ in one month.


This is illegal by the way and it is usually done on 3rd world countries where the mobile/fix operators dont have any kind of fraud protection setup.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your detailed information man.. yes this is illegal and yeah there not much regulations from cellular companies but CIA deals with these sorts of businesses in Pakistan mostly and in this case the guys doing it in 2011-12 and now only one out of 4 is in pakistan the rest 3 just disappear..

no body knows whether they run or got caught by CIA.. some say they went maskat or afghanistan by illegal ways..
so yeah this is illegal and pretty dangerous but i was always curious to know about it.
 
so basically they're scamming the providers and the users
these phone scams never cease to amaze me

similarly when the scammers are calling from different numbers, mostly using African country codes and if you pick up the phone/call them back, you're fooked, but in most cases, the providers pay for these and most people don't fall for these anymore

or the other one when the scammers don't even use suspicious country codes but your own, so the call looks like if it were coming from a landline from your country when in fact it doesn't, but it goes through different international lines, so when it reaches you, it counts as an expensive international call which you don't even find out until you get your phone bill, providers usually cover these losses, but they are out of that money, because they need to pay for the line usage for their international partners, it's a well-known scam, they still cannot do anything to stop it, because some of the providers even if unknowingly, but they are partake in it

i stopped picking up/calling back numbers i don't know a long time ago
 
blackice6666 said:
They do what is known as International Call Termination.

They idea is that with their simboxes they are terminating international calls as local ones.

So lets say that the market price for terminating international calls to Pakistan is 0.5$ per minute, and the local price for Pakistan is 0.1$ per minute.

What they do is that they buy a lot of local SIM cards and they setup them on SIM Boxes (google what sim boxes are). With that done they can sell international traffic with local price. And if you manage to get 1 Milion minutes / month you have just made 400000$ in one month.


This is illegal by the way and it is usually done on 3rd world countries where the mobile/fix operators dont have any kind of fraud protection setup.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for your detailed information man.. yes this is illegal and yeah there not much regulations from cellular companies but CIA deals with these sorts of businesses in Pakistan mostly and in this case the guys doing it in 2011-12 and now only one out of 4 is in pakistan the rest 3 just disappear..

no body knows whether they run or got caught by CIA.. some say they went maskat or afghanistan by illegal ways..
so yeah this is illegal and pretty dangerous but i was always curious to know about it.
 
HoNeYBiRD said:
so basically they're scamming the providers and the users
these phone scams never cease to amaze me

similarly when the scammers are calling from different numbers, mostly using African country codes and if you pick up the phone/call them back, you're fooked, but in most cases, the providers pay for these and most people don't fall for these anymore

or the other one when the scammers don't even use suspicious country codes but your own, so the call looks like if it were coming from a landline from your country when in fact it doesn't, but it goes through different international lines, so when it reaches you, it counts as an expensive international call which you don't even find out until you get your phone bill, providers usually cover these losses, but they are out of that money, because they need to pay for the line usage for their international partners, it's a well-known scam, they still cannot do anything to stop it, because some of the providers even if unknowingly, but they are partake in it

i stopped picking up/calling back numbers i don't know a long time ago
Click to expand...

There are also legal ways of doing international termination if the country rules allow it. I have worked on the both (legal) sides of the coin. I have worked as a Billing SysAdmin on a mobile operator and I have also worked on an ISP which did legal international terminations to big operators.

This is how it worked:

Country (Albania) legislation did put an max price from international call terminations to local providers. So big mobile/fix operators where forced by law to sell international termination traffic to local ISP at a price of around 0.03$ meanwhile the price in the international market was around 0.2$. We managed to sell around 1.5 Million minutes / Month because we had a partnership with a big European Telco. But those days went away when big operators lobbed and got the rules changed.

However now we can terminate legally around 150000 minutes / Month, thats the limit that the big operators have put in place for the smaller ISPs. (and they have only a few which they do business with).


In the past you just needed to have an ISP license and you are done, they were forced to give you this service at the max price set by law. If you can find a country that still has this regulations you can make big money legally. But i doubt there is any.


On the dark side (SIM Box) there were a lot of people buying and using them in the past, since the big operators didnt have any type of Anti Fraud equipment set up. And also you had the ability to get all the SIM cards you needed anonymously. Basically you could go to different shops and purchase 100 SIM cards without even showing an ID.

Now also these regulations have changed and you cant buy more than 5 SIM cards / person and you must show an ID. Which means that if they find out you are using simboxes they can easily get after you.

I heard a lot of people are working in african countries because they do not have any regulation in place. But that means that you have to move and work there.
 
blackice6666 said:
There are also legal ways of doing international termination if the country rules allow it. I have worked on the both (legal) sides of the coin. I have worked as a Billing SysAdmin on a mobile operator and I have also worked on an ISP which did legal international terminations to big operators.

This is how it worked:

Country (Albania) legislation did put an max price from international call terminations to local providers. So big mobile/fix operators where forced by law to sell international termination traffic to local ISP at a price of around 0.03$ meanwhile the price in the international market was around 0.2$. We managed to sell around 1.5 Million minutes / Month because we had a partnership with a big European Telco. But those days went away when big operators lobbed and got the rules changed.

However now we can terminate legally around 150000 minutes / Month, thats the limit that the big operators have put in place for the smaller ISPs. (and they have only a few which they do business with).


In the past you just needed to have an ISP license and you are done, they were forced to give you this service at the max price set by law. If you can find a country that still has this regulations you can make big money legally. But i doubt there is any.


On the dark side (SIM Box) there were a lot of people buying and using them in the past, since the big operators didnt have any type of Anti Fraud equipment set up. And also you had the ability to get all the SIM cards you needed anonymously. Basically you could go to different shops and purchase 100 SIM cards without even showing an ID.

Now also these regulations have changed and you cant buy more than 5 SIM cards / person and you must show an ID. Which means that if they find out you are using simboxes they can easily get after you.

I heard a lot of people are working in african countries because they do not have any regulation in place. But that means that you have to move and work there.
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man, your educated as hell.. I used to think the most the members on this forum are just kids making youtube review videos trying to make a quick buck and I am glad to say i was wrong.
 
mohsinmirza said:
man, your educated as hell.. I used to think the most the members on this forum are just kids making youtube review videos trying to make a quick buck and I am glad to say i was wrong.
Click to expand...

Not completely wrong. I have the same feeling.
 
This is a SEO forum and not a VoIP/SIP/Telco forum. There are a lot of people here with insane IM knowledge and I can assure you that some of them make even more money than your friends with SIM Boxes.

It just happened that i had knowledge on the question you asked because thats part of my 8-5 job and it does not have any type of relation with blackhatworld.

And there is nothing wrong with the newbies making review videos in order to get some bucks so they can make a bigger investment. I am also a newbie and I respect all the old/new members here which share a lot of information regarding SEO/IM.
 
blackice6666 said:
This is a SEO forum and not a VoIP/SIP/Telco forum. There are a lot of people here with insane IM knowledge and I can assure you that some of them make even more money than your friends with SIM Boxes.

It just happened that i had knowledge on the question you asked because thats part of my 8-5 job and it does not have any type of relation with blackhatworld.

And there is nothing wrong with the newbies making review videos in order to get some bucks so they can make a bigger investment. I am also a newbie and I respect all the old/new members here which share a lot of information regarding SEO/IM.
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sorry if my questions gave you wrong impression guys.. Hey i respect newbies too they are still better then most of the people who just read and read and read and read more and then quit and by the way in internet marketing i am also a fuc**** newbie and for me its fuc*** hard and confusing.
I still dream sometimes that one day i receive a p.m from some anonymous guy who after knowing my condition take my hand and walk me through all the bells and whistles of I.M and from that day things start gonna change and i'll never be the same. :D :D :D :

I am very stupid sometimes i know.
 
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