Abusing the reputation system - and a warning.

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thedon23 said:
Gonna be a lot more careful and uh.."stingy", when it comes to giving rep.
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I don't think there's a need to be more "stingy". What meathead is talking about is things like "organized rep trading circles".

Since there's no way to guarantee that only worthwhile posts are given rep, the rep system is more of a popularity indicator than anything else. But that doesn't mean it's useless as some people have suggested. Generally a popularity poll can be an indication of trustworthyness because a lack of trust usually leads to a lack of popularity as well.

It's also not necessarily a problem to give back some rep to someone who just gave you some. The problem is when a group of members organize that into a rep trading circle then it's no longer an accurate indicator. A small group of people who don't really have any true popularity can inflate their reputation even if no one outside the circle knows who they are.

I tend to give rep based on either seeing a really good post from someone, and also to people that don't necessarily have any great individual posts but who's overall participation seems worthy of some reputation. Basically I'm most likely to give rep to people that I think are consistently helpful and beneficial to the forum.

Sometimes I'll even make an effort to bring someone's rep back up above zero if I see they received an inordinate amount of neg reps over something stupid and I think that their overall participation doesn't deserve such a rep meltdown.

I think this thread is directed more at members that are regularly trading rep to manipulate the system. The rep system will statistically balance itself out dealing with all the various reasons people might decide to give other people rep. What the statistics won't compensate for though is small groups of people trading rep back and forth with the sole intention of raising their reps. Abusing the rep system in that manner makes it a fairly useless indicator of anything.

So meathead can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's suggesting anyone using the rep system in a normal manner needs to change the criteria they have for when they choose to give rep. If you're using the rep system correctly, then there's no reason to become "stingy" about it (unless you just want to be ;)).
 
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GreyWolf said:
I don't think there's a need to be more "stingy". What meathead is talking about is things like "organized rep trading circles".

Since there's no way to guarantee that only worthwhile posts are given rep, the rep system is more of a popularity indicator than anything else. But that doesn't mean it's useless as some people have suggested. Generally a popularity poll can be an indication of trustworthyness because a lack of trust usually leads to a lack of popularity as well.

It's also not necessarily a problem to give back some rep to someone who just gave you some. The problem is when a group of members organize that into a rep trading circle then it's no longer an accurate indicator. A small group of people who don't really have any true popularity can inflate their reputation even if no one outside the circle knows who they are.

I tend to give rep based on either seeing a really good post from someone, and also to people that don't necessarily have any great individual posts but who's overall participation seems worthy of some reputation. Basically I'm most likely to give rep to people that I think are consistently helpful and beneficial to the forum.

Sometimes I'll even make an effort to bring someone's rep back up above zero if I see they received an inordinate amount of neg reps over something stupid and I think that their overall participation doesn't deserve such a rep meltdown.

I think this thread is directed more at members that are regularly trading rep to manipulate the system. The rep system will statistically balance itself out dealing with all the various reasons people might decide to give other people rep. What the statistics won't compensate for though is small groups of people trading rep back and forth with the sole intention of raising their reps. Abusing the rep system in that manner makes it a fairly useless indicator of anything.

So meathead can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's suggesting anyone using the rep system in a normal manner needs to change the criteria they have for when they choose to give rep. If you're using the rep system correctly, then there's no reason to become "stingy" about it (unless you just want to be ;)).
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Lmao, I guess stingy was the wrong word to use :p Thanks for pointing that out though bro

That's kind of funny how people are making "organized rep trading circles" hahahah. Is it really that important? Guess people really care about the size of their e-penis more than you would think :D
 
GreyWolf said:
So meathead can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's suggesting anyone using the rep system in a normal manner needs to change the criteria they have for when they choose to give rep. If you're using the rep system correctly, then there's no reason to become "stingy" about it (unless you just want to be ;)).
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100% correct.
 
Ah shit poor kickflip- he can't help getting into a beef everytime he joins a thread:) how longs he banned 4?
 
davids355 said:
Ah shit poor kickflip- he can't help getting into a beef everytime he joins a thread:) how longs he banned 4?
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Long enough for him to go outside and get some fresh air :cool:

Talking of taking a break... time for bed!
 
Awesome step ahead .
Theres already a therad bt 7878 , but after that i seen alot of rep beggars .
Now they all will be carefull too
 
Slightly off-topic. When I first started on BHW, I got into some neg rep REAL quick.

Never knew who it was. Then when I had upgraded for Jr. VIP I one day noticed I could SEE who had repped me. So I naturally went back in time and checked why I got all those neg reps & from who.

Turned out it was ONE bloke the whole time just neg. repping me. Bloody ridiculous. It's like he favourited the link "all posts by krzysiekz" and negged me any time he could. I had to really watch out what I would post back then haha, I didn't want to go too far into the negatives.

Anyway, that's beside the point. I think the people who are in the group giving away free reps should be given a free vacation from the forum. Should not be allowed to get away with it. Not fair on the people who try and earn it!

Nonetheless, good job guys!
 
Thanks meathead. rep given (just kidding)

By the way, ironic of BLACK HAT World to be asking to play fair and not abuse the system :rolleyes:

(just kidding, please dont ban me)
 
Barbarossa said:
Thanks meathead. rep given (just kidding)

By the way, ironic of BLACK HAT World to be asking to play fair and not abuse the system :rolleyes:

(just kidding, please dont ban me)
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You play with fire here :p

2 "just kidding" --> SPAM , straight disrespect of the thread topic, and this "don't ban me" which can be understood as "need fresh air too" :D

:firedevil:firedevil:firedevil
 
After all, the system is just a mindless machine. No machine can defeat the art of deception of human. After all, this is a blackhat forum, where all of the artistic brain gather.
 
Kickflip said:
I think it should be clarified what you as mods would consider a situation worthy of a + reputation. If I have a 4 hour conversation with someone that started because they saw my post about how I disagree with the majority of the world, and they posted something as simple as "I agree!", then I would consider that as a reason to add to their reputation because of them voicing how they felt as well.

If someone earns my trust, or shares a lot of the same values as me, then I may go browse through all of their recent posts and look for something that I feel was worthy of a +rep. I get limited automatically by the forum every day for spreading reputation too quickly, but I am spreading it to people who I genuinely think deserve a higher reputation on the forum for their posts.

We have relationships that start because of a simple post, and blossom outside of BHW, but ultimately we feel they deserve the reputation they get. The button says, "Add to Kickflip's Reputation" when you hover over it, so if that is what someone wants to do, they should be allowed to. They are THEN asked "What do you think of Kickflip's post?" Sometimes we will add a little inside joke or something.

Yes, 17 times in 2 months is extremely excessive. But to be honest, I do not keep track of people who I give +rep to. It could have been me, and I honestly wouldn't know. If a post or someone stands out to me, I will give them a +rep.

I will continue to rep as I see fit, and would invite the mods to continue to watch my account if they please, as I obviously know there are many members on BHW who dislike me and don't like seeing my rep so high, but I truly love being a BHW member, and I feel like I know how to use my "power" responsibly so I have nothing to hide.
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EDIT: Apologies... My post prior to editing may have gotten a little off topic, so I removed it.
 
IMO trust no one from figures in there profile. At the end of the day it's your judgement on someone if you trust them.

How do I trust someone? Generally researching them a little, reading lots of reviews on them. We all of gut instinct and sometimes yes we can be wrong but that's life.

In glad meat has pointed this out though to the BHW community.
 
I see this forum as a trading post where exchanges of ideas, services, products, experience (both bad times and good) are shared. The "rep" can be misleading, so research is needed, as with everything. The very nature of "Black Hat" would therefore leave it open to the integrity of certain individuals to abuse the rep to gain a stronger standing, thus increase their business. Abusing in the place that might bring them their bread and butter I see as a bit foolish, as there are some very well known, reputable figures here. All I can say is, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
 
IMO this is something that should be discussed in the moderators forum as there is no point of telling people to stop abusing the rep button, are you guys going to monitor everyone? Then discuss it amongst yourselves and figure out how to resolve it. You can't really tell people how to behave, but i'm sure you could figure out away to detect the culprits and punish them accordingly. The vbulletin reputation has always been flawed in every way possible and I personally completely dismiss it.

I can give someone rep because they are my friend(s). Rep should not about popularity, it should be about the value of the persons advice and should not be used to determine if that person would be trusted with $5000.
 
Thank you, @meathead1234 for this useful and relevant thread.

The moral of the story/gist of meathead's message is: Don't game the system.

IMHO, there is no need for anyone to be "stingy" with reps, as long as they don't game the system.

There's nothing wrong in going right ahead and repping the author of something you like and find useful.

Ditto for neg reps, although I don't think I've ever handed out any of those.
 
Fathom said:
IMO this is something that should be discussed in the moderators forum as there is no point of telling people to stop abusing the rep button, are you guys going to monitor everyone? Then discuss it amongst yourselves and figure out how to resolve it. You can?t really tell people how to behave, but i?m sure you could figure out away to detect the culprits and punish them accordingly. The vbulletin reputation has always been flawed in every way possible and I personally completely dismiss it.

I can give someone rep because they are my friend(s). Rep should not about popularity, it should be about the value of the persons advice and should not be used to determine if that person would be trusted with $5000.
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Because ~10 people were involved, all of whom are quite well known, we thought it made more sense to warn everyone publicly first, before we start any banning.

We're obviously not going to monitor everyone, but if you randomly get a huge spike of rep in a short period of time, we will look into it.

Again, everyone will have a different perception of rep and how to use it, and that's not a problem. The growing trend of a group who like to rep each other in a circle is the issue here, and that's all I'm warning people about.
 
1. will the people involved in "gang rep" get to read this?
2. I always thought that only Jr Vip rank and above get to rep.
3. if you have the system wide open, people will tend to abuse it, this sticky thread will not totally stop that.


I suggest only Jr Vip/Donators rank and above get the power to give rep and normal members can only receive rep.
 
mointernet said:
1. will the people involved in "gang rep" get to read this?
2. I always thought that only Jr Vip rank and above get to rep.
3. if you have the system wide open, people will tend to abuse it, this sticky thread will not totally stop that.


I suggest only Jr Vip/Donators rank and above get the power to give rep and normal members can only receive rep.
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1) Some of them have already thanked the thread ;)
2) No, Jr VIP and above are the only ones who can give neg rep. All members can give positive rep.
3) Sure, I get that, but hopefully the warning will deter some.

Most of those involved are quite well known, so limiting rep to just Jr VIP and above won't solve the issue, unfortunately.

Thanks for your feedback.
 
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