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About to create first stealth account, but need clarification before proceeding.

Discussion in 'Ebay' started by MZLKN, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    I've read the ebay stealth guidebook and perused this forum as well as askpin. For the most part I understand what to do, but in my research I came across some conflicting information.

    To hide my location, initially I thought of tethering with my phone (t-mobile), but the dynamic IP only changes ever so slightly between two ranges, making that a no go. So should I go with a VPN, VPS, proxy, or any combination of the three? The current consensus regarding VPNs seems to be that the IPs offered by most services are known by ebay and deemed highly suspicious, especially since they bounce around all over the place. However, I've read about VPNs that offer IPs that are uniquely dedicated (not shared) Are these viable or are they recycled from previous users? I've seen posts recommending a VPS + DIY VPN as the best option, but others say this is unnecessary and recommend private proxies with the FlashGot firefox plugin, claiming private proxy IPs to be static and unique. What is the cheapest and most effective option?

    Also, in regards to LLCs that are single member/sole proprietorship, is it possible to have more than EIN #? According to the IRS website, only one EIN is issued for multiple businesses when a single individual runs them. I'd like to run multiple EIN paypal/ebay verified accounts, so how can I get around this?

    Thank you for all the knowledge I have gleaned from here so far! :)
     
  2. LastBlow

    LastBlow Junior Member

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    Hi I sent you a message in regards to ip address solutions, as for the LLC you should be able to get multiple EINS maybe just separate the LLC into multiple businesses with DBAs. Good luck!
     
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  3. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    Thanks for answering my questions! :) I would respond to the PM but can't until I've reached 15 posts.

    When you say separate the LLC into multiple businesses with DBAs, you mean creating several DBAs and creating an LLC in each of those names, correct? Just making sure so I do this right the first time.
     
  4. LastBlow

    LastBlow Junior Member

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    Hi, no I meant just establish an LLC and then create as many DBAs as you need for different businesses and put them all under the same LLC. That would seem easier and cheaper than making multiple LLCs
     
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  5. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    Ok, that makes more sense. Essentially I would be making my DBAs partners, right?
     
  6. LastBlow

    LastBlow Junior Member

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    DBA just means doing business as, so maybe the LLC is MZLKN LLC and then break it down into different businesses, one dba is Car Wash another is Mega Wholesales... etc can get an ein for each dba
     
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  7. jmt123

    jmt123 Regular Member

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    For IPs, even if the last few digits are different, then that's enough. But you would want to spread out when you make the accounts just to be safe. I do use t-mobile tethering on occasion and you're right, their IP pool is pretty narrow, but you can still use them to create more than one account. You'd need to be very careful with keeping track of the IPs you use though because you'll get repeats.

    You can buy a 3G/4G hotspot from any other cell company for diversity and for a bigger IP pool. It may not be as cheap as other options (well it's probably cheaper than multiple VPSs), but since IPs are very important, this is not something you want to take shortcuts on. In my experience mobile internet IPs are way less abused/blacklisted compared to VPNs/proxies. VPNs/Proxies can work, but you need to make sure the IPs are truly private and are not heavily abused/blacklisted for spam or other reasons. And there's always the possibility that a handful of people can ruin the experience for everyone else and causes Ebay to go on a banning spree against those who use a particular VPN company. That's virtually impossible if using home internet like Comcast/AT&T etc, or mobile internet like T-mobile/Verizon/Sprint etc without banning nearly everyone in the US.

    Also, there's a difference between a sole proprietor and a LLC. It's possible for a single person to own a LLC, but that's not the same as a sole prop. You want to avoid operating as a sole prop for stealth purposes since if you do, you will be operating the business in your real name and when Paypal goes to check if the EIN is valid, they would check the personal name on your Paypal account versus the personal name on the EIN application. That's why the IRS website says you can only have one EIN for a sole prop - because there's only one you. Instead, since you want to operate with a DBA (the name of the business), you'll want to go with a LLC or S or C corp. The IRS EIN website has great definitions of each business type so you can read up on it there: https://sa.www4.irs.gov/modiein/individual/legal-structure.jsp

    And before you go and choose your business type and create a bunch of DBAs, you want to do lots of research for the tax implications because it can vary a lot depending on how and where you set up your business(es).
     
  8. gergo2007

    gergo2007 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Or instead of the mobile ip solution you can buy a VPS which has a static ip.
    If you need help with a vps just drop me a pm or skype me
     
  9. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    Ok, I understand now. Thanks for the explanation!
    I used my phone to manage my last ebay account several times a day for the last year, so I'm pretty sure I've exhausted all the IP variations in the pool. I'd rather be as safe as possible and use another service.I likened the single member LLC to a sole prop. since according to what I read, the former can be treated like a sole prop. for tax purposes (disregarded entity). Also, from my experience I know that a sole proprietorship can operate under a trade name, though I'm not sure if it functions the same as a DBA.I'll definitely be reading up more on the details of the different business types.
    The VPN that LastBlow pm'ed me about actually offers a unique (unused and never recycled) dedicated IP for a very reasonable price and allows me to purchase extra IPs very inexpensively as well. I was thinking about using the VPN IPs in a virtual machine so it would operate like a VPS but with lower cost.
     
  10. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    After doing extensive research on the tax implications of the different business structures, it doesn't seem like a S Corp or LLC is beneficial to me. My state charges an minimum annual fee of $800 to run either, and there's an additional 1.5% income tax for s corporations.

    For these reasons, I am leaning towards just having a sole proprietorship. I don't plan on hiring any employees, taking out loans, or doing anything else potentially risky, so the protections offered by an LLC aren't particularly useful to me. I would be paying the same self employment tax as sole prop, and losing at least $800 every year. S Corp status would only be beneficial for me if my business income were significant.

    I am concerned though that with a sole proprietorship, paypal would be able to find out my real identity even under a DBA since the business wouldn't be a separate legal entity from me. I wouldn't be able to run multiple accounts under different DBAs though because the EIN would be immediately linked. I can accept that, but is it possible for eBay to discover my true identity even under a DBA as a sole proprietor with a trade name?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  11. Kawgy

    Kawgy Junior Member

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    Dont worry about IPs. I have accounts that are one digit apart and they still sell heavy on ebay. (e.g. 123.123.100 and 123.123.101)

    eBay and Paypal won't go that deep into researching the information you provide them. They will only very that tax id is valid.

    It sounds like you are in Cali. It sucks doing business there. 800 for LLC every year is wack. Its better if you establish your LLC business in another state.

    Making dbas for each account won't be enough if you are going to reach the 200/20000 threshold. Once you hit this threshold, it will trigger paypal asking you for ssn, tax id, or ein.
     
  12. jmt123

    jmt123 Regular Member

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    I am far from a tax professional, but here is how I understand it.

    When checking the information linked to the EIN, Paypal checks two things regardless of the business structure:

    - The legal name
    - The validity of the EIN

    For an LLC/S/C corp, the legal name is the name of the business. The LLC/S/C corp is a separate legal entity, which is why the personal name doesn't matter in this situation and is why it is perfect for stealth.

    For a sole proprietor, the legal name is your name. You are the legal entity. Even if you have a trade name, the trade name is not a separate entity nor is it a separate business from you, which is why the personal name is checked.

    Adding a sole proprietor EIN to Paypal will work at first because they only check when it's time to report to the IRS. That is when they ask the simple yes/no questions about the EIN. That's why, for stealth purposes, being a sole proprietor is just buying yourself a bit of extra time. It's not a permanent solution. If $800 is really what it costs in your state to register as a business, then yeah just register in a different state. Even expensive websites like LegalZoom can do it for less than that. You can also do most of the work yourself for cheaper.
     
  13. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    Yes, I am in Cali. It has some of the most inane laws. I would register the business in another state, but Cali imposes a foreign business tax, meaning that even if the business is established in another state, it is forced to pay the same tax as a native Cali business if it operates or generates any income within Cali. Also, the whole process for this ends up being more expensive than just registering in state. I don't think there is any way to get around this either, since it would look very suspicious if a single member LLC were to operate only out of state while I live in Cali full time. Sounds like a great way to to get in trouble with the IRS.
    Ok, that makes sense. I guess I might just have to bite the bullet and pay the $800 annually to have the LLC. :/
     
  14. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    Yes, I am in Cali. It has some of the most inane laws. I would register the business in another state, but Cali imposes a foreign business tax, meaning that even if the business is established in another state, it is forced to pay the same tax as a native Cali business if it operates or generates any income within Cali. Also, the whole process for this ends up being more expensive than just registering in state. I don't think there is any way to get around this either, since it would look very suspicious if a single member LLC were to operate only out of state while I live in Cali full time. Sounds like a great way to to get in trouble with the IRS.

    Ok, the legal entity and identity explanation you gave makes sense. I just confirmed it on PayPal's website as well: "If you operate as a sole proprietor using an EIN you will need to provide your company EIN and your own name. Do not provide a business name or a DBA name ("Doing Business As") with your EIN. If you operate through a business legal entity such as a corporation or partnership you will need to provide your company EIN and company name." I guess I just have to bite the bullet and pay the $800 annually to have the LLC since my state imposes the foreign business tax. :/
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  15. Kawgy

    Kawgy Junior Member

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    i sent you a pm.
     
  16. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    Not sure what went wrong, but I don't have a pm from you in my inbox.

    -EDIT-
    Nevermind, I see it now. seems like you posted here before you sent the PM.
     
  17. MZLKN

    MZLKN Newbie

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    Sorry to bump this thread again and double post, but I can't respond to PMs yet.

    Can I see any tax attorney regarding the avoidance of CA franchise tax, or do you recommend certain specialists?

    I suppose I could form a corporation in Wyoming, and then make myself an employee while hiding my ownership since the state doesn't give away such info. The only issue is getting a resale license for buying wholesale without giving my real position away to CA. Though I suppose I could explain it away as one my employee duties. Another issue is double taxation at the federal level. S-corp tax status would prevent this, but would likely give me away as well, since dividend distributions would be taxed as ordinary income for personal taxes even if I left the money within the business.


    Also, I know it was already determined that a sole proprietorship DBA would not hide my personal identity from paypal, but what if I created a DBA and then used that DBA to register an EIN? Would that effectively hide my identity from paypal?
     
  18. Kawgy

    Kawgy Junior Member

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    can you view pms? if not. click the skype icon to send me a skype msg. ill give you the link there
     
  19. Kawgy

    Kawgy Junior Member

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    sorry about that, i didn't read your full msg.
     
  20. Kawgy

    Kawgy Junior Member

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    I mean like you want to get in touch with someone who talks like they have experience in what you are trying to acheive. A lot of the times people will say they don't know or they give you wrong info because they aren't familiar with it themselves. From my experience, I would have to talk to at least 7 different people just to find someone who is familiar with what i'm looking for.