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2 DAYS LEFT - Mozilla Net Neutrality Petition

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Asif WILSON Khan, Feb 25, 2015.

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Net Neutrality - For, Against, Don't Care/Know

  1. For

    100.0%
  2. Against

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  3. Don't care - Don't Know

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  1. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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  2. rabbitking

    rabbitking Elite Member

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    Decided to edit because this could go political and I am not the right arbitrator to determine
    every single thing in the bill. Some parts look great while others don't. :)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  3. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Generally, I would agree with that sentiment but not when it concerns access to the Internet.
    When we are left with a two/three tier Internet then I am sure you will change your opinion.
    Will you be truly happy if ISP's dictate what you can access?
    Do you have pockets deep enough to ensure your traffic gets through?
    Will they prioritize your traffic or will they decide to block it as they can generate more revenue elsewhere?

    It goes against everything the Internet stands for, it will stifle innovation and kill many of the businesses that we are all running.

    What if they decide people should pay extra to access http://joemongan.com/ and if they don't pay they will only be able to access it at lower speeds and on only some devices?
    I can assure you that such a model will kill off a lot of the very marketing ideas shared on BHW, as only those organisations that can afford to pay will get the traffic.

    It will affect ALL our businesses, what good is SEO if people can't even access your site because an ISP has decided that you are not of value to them?
    Look up Traffic Shaping and Bandwidth Throttling to understand what I am getting at.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/net-neutrality-ruling-opens-door/
    https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~raylin/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiered_Internet
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality
    http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/01/5965-2/
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5009250.stm
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=two-tiered+internet
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Net+Neutrality
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_shaping
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_throttling



    Also I must correct a flaw in this statement:

     
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  4. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi BANNED BANNED

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    Even if the FCC decides to end it, it doesn't mean the end of good internet in the states. Internet Co-Ops will still be allowed to be formed. If some of the major ISP's realize that they are losing money to such things they won't have crappy service restrictions.
     
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  5. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    I agree with rabbitking 's original post. This so called "net neutrality" is just a subsidization of netflix, google, yahoo etc. by the many. It has nothing to do with freedom of speech and all that hype. I've been on the net since early 1999, loooong before the so call "net neutrality" fcc ruling and for a "strange" reason, no ISP was "banning" sites just because they could. Some other institution was, and still is, but I'm not hearing any cries about that by netflix. I wonder why.
     
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  6. nutserious

    nutserious Power Member

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    I petition which ever is good for my income. :p
     
  7. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    From a Libertarian perspective I can see where you are coming from, but had the net not been neutral then many of the innovations we have seen, would not have happened.
    Where the foundation of the Internet was created by thinkers and scientists, we are now left with Politicians and Big Business deciding its fate, and I will agree THAT is crap.

    This is what the future might hold, the same crap the cable companies pull
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Anyway, in the interest of fairness, here is an alternative petition for those that oppose it:
    https://downsizedc.org/blog/urgent-will-net-neutrality-save-or-destroy-the-internet
     
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  8. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    These 3 articles are worth a read, obviously they support my view, but there are plenty of opposing articles out there but they tend just to be focused on the Government Interference angle.
    I am not from the US and I am Anti Government (all of them) for the most part.

    [​IMG]

    http://www.savetheinternet.com/net-neutrality-what-you-need-know-now


    [​IMG]

    http://www.businessinsider.com/net-neutralityfor-dummies-and-how-it-effects-you-2014-1?IR=T


    [​IMG]

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/welcome-to-the-net-neutrality-nightmare-scenario#.xtqyZaGkV


    I would love to hear more from people with a different viewpoint or do most people just not care?
     
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  9. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    The sun would also stop rising. How on earth could you believe such a statement when not only there's no evidence to support it but there's tons of empirical evidence against it, it baffles me.

    The Internet you know has been bred, cultivated and flourished by money - tons of money. Marketers should know that. Do you have any idea what the internet was like when no money was involved?
     
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  10. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi BANNED BANNED

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    They probably aren't going to be charging insane rates, but start getting residential consumers to pay for the business internet plans if they want faster access to all sites.
     
  11. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Voip and Napster (P2P) spring to mind as technologies that may not have succeeded had the net not been neutral. Both technologies were unwelcome by the ISP's
    The Net being essentially neutral, this has allowed entrepreneurs without large capital or infrastructure to get started, as it is neutral it has allowed and encouraged healthy competition.

    Absolutely, but would that money have flowed so easily if the net had not been neutral? I don't understand any Internet Marketer who thinks a tiered model would be good for their business.
    If the largest content providers on the planet are concerned about it, then surely any sensible Marketer should be concerned about anything that could restrict or cap his growth.
    I received my first Modem in 1983 so am very aware of how the Internet was like before it was the Internet. Personally as a tech enthusiast I preferred it.
    Prior to the Web it was necessary to dial into Bulletin Boards for the cost of a Telephone Call, there weren't any Data packages, you were just charged the standard rate (which could be expensive when connecting to BB's in the States from the UK). There was no charge to access the computer (admittedly most of the boards at that time were Hobbyist boards) (It also resulted in several kicks up the arse from my Father for running up £600 telephone bills when his usual quarterly bill was £25)


    Cable Companies and ISP's have long been accused of being a monopoly and of price fixing. Will that change if they have a free reign to do as they please?

    [​IMG]
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/holly-hamann/will-the-net-neutrality-v_b_4782729.html

    [​IMG]
    https://www.battleforthenet.com/

    [​IMG]
    http://www.nnsquad.org/bandwidth-caps.html

    [​IMG]
    http://www.freepress.net/blog/2015/02/24/news-flash-artists-remain-cooler-isps

    [​IMG]
    http://www.dailydot.com/politics/lobbyists-net-neutrality-fcc/

    [​IMG]
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2014/01/so-who-owns-the-internet/

    [​IMG]
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21Benkler.html?_r=0

    [​IMG]
    http://theweek.com/articles/449919/american-internet-slow

    [​IMG]
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics...ive-arguments-against-net-neutrality-debunked

    [​IMG]
    http://www.inc.com/associated-press/obama-inflames-debate-on-net-neutrality.html

    http://www.knightfoundation.org/features/netneutrality/
    http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=B
    http://www.savetheinternet.com/sti-home
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102453796
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielf...net-neutrality-rules-but-who-will-they-cover/
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/02/24/net-neutrality-what-is-it-guide/23237737/

    Sorry if I may have double posted or rambled on, a little bleary eyed.
    You will now have to excuse me, I have been up for 36 hours and have at least 12 more hours to go, probably won't get back onto BHW until after the vote, so ...
     
  12. sam0016

    sam0016 Registered Member

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    I managed to vote for the wrong thing, I'm for net neutrality, I don't see the need to give big company's like amazon for example more power.
     
  13. OnFlySEO

    OnFlySEO Registered Member

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    This is actually a pretty huge deal, I'm definitely FOR netneutrality, for those against it, you need to better educate yourself because there's NOTHING good about it, of course this is just my opinion and everyone's views will vary however, if you're going to cast a vote or sign a petition or post a comment about the issue, at least be fully informed on what exactly you're supporting.

    If it was up to me, I'd have a banner at the top of the homepage on BHW supporting netneutrality and asking members to support it.
     
  14. 2DHades

    2DHades Power Member

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    too bad the petition is only for us citizents. If it gets through in the US, it will spread like wildfire. And no, it wont be good. Not at all.
     
  15. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi BANNED BANNED

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    It's not going to spread like wildfire, other countries have much more competition in regards to ISP's. In most cities and counties in America there is only 2 real internet providers(cable and DSL). There really is no good 4G,Wimax or fiber alternatives to the cable and DSL providers in America.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
  16. frodskii80

    frodskii80 Regular Member

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    This has the same concern level as a meteor landing in my backyard pool
     
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  17. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    That's all? That's the great destruction humanity will suffer? I wonder why VoIP exists in Europe where there's no such thing as "net neutrality".

    That's the work of the insanely huge rate of tech development that does it, nothing to do with weather Netflix will pay more to serve its content at max speed or not.

    Well, yes, it's completely irrelevant. Money flows where money is being made.

    I don't believe that. If so, I don't think we have anything else to discuss on that point.

    You mean you preferred an era where there was no so called "net neutrality"? How did you survive the barbarism? ;)

    I don't know, what will they do? Let's see, what DID they do outside of the US where there's no such coercion called "net neutrality" (very cleverly named, props to them marketer that came with it). Oh, yes, nothing! Godzilla has not attacked European internet users yet despite that. Perhaps he's too busy watching Netflix :eek:
     
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  18. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    You do realize that thing exists only in the US, right? Do you have internet access in your country or has Godzilla attacked because you're "unprotected"? :)
     
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  19. rabbitking

    rabbitking Elite Member

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    Jazzc makes life so easy sometimes. All I have to do is serp my coffee and nod my head
    in agreement. See what I did there.... :D
     
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  20. SPQR

    SPQR Elite Member

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    In all honesty, these ramblings and back and forth arguments are really not going to change anything. In a time like this it is best just to sit back and relax. Who knows how this is going to turn out? Nothing but time can tell.