DR Resolved @xRAYPEST vs. @ghost1906

@xRAYPEST @ghost1906 We're closing this thread while we assess the evidence. We'll make a decision in the next 24 hours.

xRAYPEST said:

You said "We will directly contact your clients and show them what a scammer you are" Thats you threatening me.

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Do you have any evidence of this? We could not see any.

I have added this screenshot before as well. You can clearly see "I'll also contact your clients directly and show them this entire conversation so they can see what kind of scammer they're working with"

This is not them offering help, this is them threatening me. Clear violation of privacy. He twisted it by saying I asked him to contact my clients but I never did that, they have no proof of it.

@ghost1906 We want a response to the specific screenshot above. And not a ChatGPT-generated response about something else entirely.

No problem, I already gave an early explanation for this in the above. During a chat conversation + in private messages with one of our managers (in which he just sent the second video and which he just completely deleted), he said that his clients did not want to pay 50% for a new channel, that his clients did not understand anything about seo, and that He asks us to explain it to them ourselves. TO CLARIFY, AT THAT TIME, WE DID NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS A RESELLER.

Next, he deleted some of his messages where he talked about it, and it was beneficial for him to crop the screenshots where we say that we will contact his clients - this is our second message about this. I will also clarify that he specifically brought us to emotions, + for that period of time he had already managed to SCAM us on the second video (and delete the correspondence with one of our manager) and managed to open a dispute for the entire amount in paypal. And even then we found out that he was a reseller-scammer. Based on this, we wanted to offer his clients a good channel at our expense and show all correspondence with him, proving that he was just a scammer, and we were an honest service.

He's just conveniently showing the situation to himself, but in fact he's blatantly lying. I have shown above many proofs with screenshots that he is a liar and a scammer, this case is no exception.

And to be completely honest on our part, PAYPAL closed the dispute in our favor LAST NIGHT. To clarify, Paypal almost always sides with the client, ALMOST ALWAYS. But after reviewing our arguments, they took our side, which is quite obvious.

ghost1906 said:

Next, he deleted some of his messages where he talked about it, and it was beneficial for him to crop the screenshots where we say that we will contact his clients - this is our second message about this.

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Please present evidence that they cropped screenshots and deleted messages.

SettingSun77 said:

Please present evidence that they cropped screenshots and deleted messages.

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In telegram, you can delete dialogs/messages for two people, we didn't take screenshots because we didn't think he would do that. I can assure you, he's a smart scammer, he knows what he's doing and it's not the first time he's done it - because he's too good at it. He did all this in such a way that we couldn't even know at that time that he would do it, which means we couldn't take screenshots, it didn't make sense. Just try to look at the situation from our side, at what you would do personally in this situation. Also we haven’t contacted his clients.

ghost1906 said:

In telegram, you can delete dialogs/messages for two people, we didn't take screenshots

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So you have no evidence they did this?

SettingSun77 said:

So you have no evidence they did this?

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No, because it didn't matter to us-it was one thing to say, another to do. Then the words did not go far away. We did not contact his clients, and the fact that we said we would do this was only to prove to him that we were an honest service that was ready to buy a good channel for a person even for our money. I'll also clarify that he talked about the long-term prospect of cooperation with large budgets with us - but that too has already been deleted.

ghost1906 said:

No, because it didn't matter to us-it was one thing to say, another to do. Then the words did not go far away. We did not contact his clients, and the fact that we said we would do this was only to prove to him that we were an honest service that was ready to buy a good channel for a person even for our money. I'll also clarify that he talked about the long-term prospect of cooperation with large budgets with us - but that too has already been deleted.

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The problem we have here is that you've made this point about deleted chats and messages repeatedly in this thread and essentially wasted staff time by then saying, well, we don't actually have any evidence of this.

We also have the problem that you've repeatedly said that the PayPal case was still open and while you've now admitted that it wasn't, you didn't show any patience in waiting for this to show at your end. So you have again wasted time in this dispute by saying this over and over.

We've also noted that you offer a replacement video, was this ever offered to @xRAYPEST?

SettingSun77 said:

The problem we have here is that you've made this point about deleted chats and messages repeatedly in this thread and essentially wasted staff time by then saying, well, we don't actually have any evidence of this.

We also have the problem that you've repeatedly said that the PayPal case was still open and while you've now admitted that it wasn't, you didn't show any patience in waiting for this to show at your end. So you have again wasted time in this dispute by saying this over and over.

We've also noted that you offer a replacement video, was this ever offered to @xRAYPEST?

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1. I agree that we have no evidence that he deleted the correspondence, but he actually did it. Okay, I see, no problem. We’ve wasted your time.

2. I strongly disagree about Paypal. We wouldn't have said anything about it if “buyer” hadn't said that the case was closed in our favor - when it was actually open all the time, and we showed all the proofs. Why are you accusing us of this? Blame him - he deceived your staff. Or is it not considered a waste of his time? We just showed and CLEARLY proved that he was lying.

3. Please read the terms of our warranty. they are written directly in the thread - 10 videos and 50 subscribers. He does not have these conditions, they are not fulfilled, which means there is no guarantee for him. I attached screenshots and wrote it too. But even so, we offered him to pay 50% of the cost of the good channel out of our pocket, and make another video - this is also all in the correspondence and attached in the thread.

I do not know, is it our mistake that we are so loyal? Or why are there so many claims against us, but none against him? Provided that we clearly proved that he was lying many times - and we were wrong only once - when we didn't take screenshots of his deleted messages.

ghost1906 said:

Or why are there so many claims against us, but none against him?

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Just to be clear, we are not making claims, we are asking questions. We have to ask them to ensure we make a fair judgement here. This is a complex dispute that has not been helped by yourself and @xRAYPEST repeating the same points over and over and introducing evidence that is irrelevant or has no foundation.

So here is my question to the seller based on his claims that "I deleted the messages" - When did it happen?

The seller mentioned in his initial messages that "the buyer reached out via private messages, apologized for his aggressive behavior, and stated he wanted to clear the air and start our dialogue completely from scratch"

The aggressive behavior he is talking about happened on 18th May. I created the dispute on PayPal on 18th May. There was no serious questioning before it as I was just waiting for them to refund or see if I'll actually rank. What date did I reach out to them??

Here is a screenshot with my chat with Sinan. I asked him "what is this?" based on the conversation where MIRA suddenly claimed the video will NOT rank after Sinan assured me before my payment that my account was fine. You can see that till 18th May Sinan never read my messages, never replied back. If I had apologized why was he still ignoring me till I created the dispute? He only replied after the dispute was live.





If they say I did it after 18th May, why didn't they ask me to withdraw the dispute? The truth is, I never contacted any other manager personally apart from Sinan. He clearly mentions I should post in the group everytime and thats what I did. They have kicked me from the group and continued doing so because they were scared I'll get more proofs from the group chat.

Then the seller says: 10 videos and 50 subscribers. He does not have these conditions, they are not fulfilled, which means there is no guarantee for him. I attached screenshots and wrote it too. But even so, we offered him to pay 50% of the cost of the good channel out of our pocket, and make another video - this is also all in the correspondence and attached in the thread.

Yes, my channel didn't have these conditions but I never read that 1 single line in his thread. I had directly contacted Sinan, asked him questions about what is needed to rank #1 and he told me old is better. I bought a 20 year old account from a seller on BHW. Sent the link to Sinan and he said "Its good since its aged". (I have added screenshots before) Not once did the seller say that it does not meet the requirements or it wont rank. Had this been mentioned ONCE, I would've never paid. They only mentioned it after I had paid and the work had to be started.

They offered to pay 50% for a new channel which meets requirements but why would i pay extra $100 to them when they have already not delivered what was promised for $200? Its simply losing more money.

My question to Ghost is - Why are you kicking me from joining the group back where we had our conversation? Why did you delete the link now?

Sorry admins, I sent one message that consisted of other people reviews of his service which I understand was incorrect but apart from that, I have backed ALL my claims with proofs and screenshots.

I am closing the discussion on the allegedly deleted messages. @ghost1906 - don't respond to questions on that subject, they are no longer of relevance to this dispute.

The seller also said this: "he said that his clients did not want to pay 50% for a new channel, that his clients did not understand anything about seo, and that He asks us to explain it to them ourselves. TO CLARIFY, AT THAT TIME, WE DID NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS A RESELLER."

Let me prove this wrong too - Here is a screenshot when I shared my first video link with them and when they suddenly told me that the account doesn't meet requirements.

I clearly mentioned that this was a trial to show my clients what their service can do. I clearly mention it was for my clients right after ordering my first video. Where is this "TO CLARIFY, AT THAT TIME, WE DID NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS A RESELLER." coming from?

Well, first of all, we are used to the fact that many people use the translator and to its inaccuracies - besides, you yourself said that you are from India, so we didn't even pay attention to it.

Secondly, we are a large service and we don't even remember such little things.

Thirdly, your screen itself shows that you agreed to work and took all the risks on yourself - even though you were literally asked "so should we start anyway?"

I don't think we will respond to your messages in the future, it's just that you yourself agreed to take risks and told us to start, so I don't understand the problem.

Admins, please note the "many people use the translator and to its inaccuracies - besides, you yourself said that you are from India, so we didn't even pay attention to it."

After this message - I had asked you to REFUND ME. Which you conveniently denied saying "SEO Optimizations have started" So no, I didn't give you a go-ahead here. it was after you denied me a refund and gave me no options but to start with the service.

I have mentioned this before in this thread and I'll say it again - "I ultimately allowed the campaign to continue because the seller refused to issue the refund. I was left with two choices: either let them proceed or lose my money entirely. That should not be interpreted as satisfaction with the situation or agreement that the service requirements had been met."

I have exposed all your lies, all your false claims one by one.

@xRAYPEST @ghost1906

Staff members have spent the last couple of days looking over the evidence submitted here and trying to sift out the evidence that is of no relevance. This has been one of the most difficult disputes we've had for quite some time.

However, our judgement is that @ghost1906 should issue a full refund of $200 to @xRAYPEST. We have not seen any evidence that @xRAYPEST is trying to scam here, nor have we seen conclusive evidence that they have lied about the evidence submitted.

What we have seen evidence of is threats made by @ghost1906 in the face of requests made to fix a service that was clearly inadequate. Although those threats were not carried out, this is deeply unprofessional and concerning behaviour that we absolutely do not condone here on BlackHat World. Also, we have concluded that @ghost1906 was very possibly dishonest regarding the status of the PayPal dispute until changing their stance last night.

Our decision is final. We will not be accepting any further evidence so do not submit any. We have already committed significant resources towards investigating this dispute and we are drawing the line here.

@ghost1906 You have 24 hours to agree to issue the refund. Once you have done so, I will open a three-way DM between yourself, myself and @xRAYPEST for you to exchange details.

PLEASE NOTE - this dispute is still open so external parties are not permitted to contribute.

1. It says in our rules that there is no guarantee for certain channels, and his channel is on this list. For some reason, you don't care about that. Then make at least a partial refund, let him pay our expenses. This is what admins do on all forums.

2. I attached a video recording of the screen to the drop box, where I showed the date, time and updated the paypal page from the mobile application, I am also ready to show the video recording of the screen where paypal sent an email last night confirming that the dispute is closed in our direction.

And despite all this, you are passing a verdict in favor of scammer, just because we said that we would allegedly write to his clients - which we did not do.

And it doesn't bother you that you were deceived and you closed the deal in favor of the scammer, in which case we see no point in using your forum and buying ads on it.

We require that the decision be reviewed by another administrator, we do not require that the dispute be closed in our favor, but we do require that it be reviewed. Otherwise, we will leave, because with this attitude we are not ready to continue working with you.

ghost1906 said:

1. It says in our rules that there is no guarantee for certain channels, and his channel is on this list. For some reason, you don't care about that. Then make at least a partial refund, let him pay our expenses. This is what admins do on all forums.

2. I attached a video recording of the screen to the drop box, where I showed the date, time and updated the paypal page from the mobile application, I am also ready to show the video recording of the screen where paypal sent an email last night confirming that the dispute is closed in our direction.

And despite all this, you are passing a verdict in favor of scammer, just because we said that we would allegedly write to his clients - which we did not do.

And it doesn't bother you that you were deceived and you closed the deal in favor of the scammer, in which case we see no point in using your forum and buying ads on it.

We require that the decision be reviewed by another administrator, we do not require that the dispute be closed in our favor, but we do require that it be reviewed. Otherwise, we will leave, because with this attitude we are not ready to continue working with you.

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The decision was made by both myself and @PetraAnn, who is the Community manager. It will not be reviewed by another staff member as we have already dedicated numerous work hours to this dispute. You will not be allowed to close your account until this dispute is resolved.

You have until 16:30 London time tomorrow to start the refund process.