Isn't Negative SEO Illegal?

[Automation247]

Cyber police is coming for you!

 

[Nargil]

Again, what crime have you committed? There has to be a crime, in the UK nothing criminally (or civil) covers deliberating attacks on the search engine.
Computer misuse Act 1990 in the UK only covers unauthorized access, if I build 5000 links to your site, that isn't unauthorized access, thus not illegal. Simple as that.
Civil claim could possibly be causing loss by unlawful means, but again, it ISNT unlawful.

It is nice using all these analogies as SEOs, but a judge isn't going to allow this.
There is something called the floodgate effect in law. Every SEO and his brother will have a claim for negative SEO, which will be hard to understand and prove.

Also, here is an interesting idea. Have you tried finding a case where someone has been either found criminally or civilly liable for negative seo?

You do not need an exact line in the codex mentioning negative SEO as a tool. For example, if I hit you with a baseball bat with nails and cause you griveous injuries, will you say that there isn't a line in codex mentioning "baseball bat with nails"? No. You can't take every line of the codex literally.

It's enough that you have caused deliberate damage on someone else's business. Negative SEO is just a new way of doing it that courts aren't familiar with yet. Is there an action? Yes. Is there an intention? Yes. Is there a damage? Yes. Is there a causal nexus between action and damage? Yes. = Enough for civil/criminal action.

Fact that it's pretty hard to prove is another thing. But the initial question was "Is it illegal?" not "Can it be proven?". So yeh, it is illegal.

And no, I haven't heard of any case, but it's just a question of time before we will.

 

[MikeyMikey13]

You do not need an exact line in the codex mentioning negative SEO as a tool. For example, if I hit you with a baseball bat with nails and cause you griveous injuries, will you say that there isn't a line in codex mentioning "baseball bat with nails"? No. You can't take every line of the codex literally.

It's enough that you have caused deliberate damage on someone else's business. Negative SEO is just a new way of doing it that courts aren't familiar with yet. Is there an action? Yes. Is there an intention? Yes. Is there a damage? Yes. Is there a causal nexus between action and damage? Yes. = Enough for civil/criminal action.

Fact that it's pretty hard to prove is another thing. But the initial question was "Is it illegal?" not "Can it be proven?". So yeh, it is illegal.

And no, I haven't heard of any case, but it's just a question of time before we will.

This is very much a moot point.

I disagree with you when you say it is illegal. I think what you mean is it is capable of being illegal.

However as a court has never established it, nor has any government around the world ever established it as being illegal, it isn't.

 

[Nargil]

No, I am saying it's straightforward illegal. Was in 1930 established anywhere, that running a plane into a building is illegal?

It does not matter how the damage is caused, it was caused and was so with the intention to cause it. Not to mention that in most cases you have a commercial benefit from it. It breaks multiple laws in any codex in the world. One of the basic law principles is - Where your personal freedom ends, the personal freedom of someone else begins.

 

[cursedbrain]

Again.. the classic thread about Google Bowling, a.k.a Negative SEO. Intentionally sabotaging a business is illegal. However, I think you guys are overestimating the power of negative link building. What happens if you take one of the top 500 urls in Alexa and blast it to 200,000 bad links? Will you ruin it's Google rankings causing millions of dollars to be lost? I don't think so. Google has no manual intervention and rankings are solely decided by the algorithm. If your website is qualitative enough or authoritative, it cannot be affected by negative seo. The algorithm does a great job to detect those bad links and just ignores them, instead of penalizing the website, or the "victim". If your site is new, there is no protection from bowling except the disavow links tool.

 

[Nargil]

Again.. the classic thread about Google Bowling, a.k.a Negative SEO. Intentionally sabotaging a business is illegal. However, I think you guys are overestimating the power of negative link build. What happens if you take one of the top 500 urls in Alexa and blast it to 200,000 bad links? Will you ruin it's Google rankings causing millions of dollars to be lost? I don't think so. Google has no manual intervention and rankings are solely decided by the algorithm. If your website is qualitative enough or authoritative, it cannot be affected by negative seo. The algorithm does a great job to detect those bad links and just ignores them, instead of penalizing the website, or the "victim". If your site is new, there is no protection from bowling except the disavow links tool.

If there is no damage, then there's nothing illegal about it in the first place. But then again, question wasn't whether neg SEO works etc.

 

[cursedbrain]

If there is no damage, then there's nothing illegal about it in the first place. But then again, question wasn't whether neg SEO works etc.

There's a lot of damage if your website is new, as it can be removed from Google completely after a negative blast. About the legal part, this practice is considered unfair competition.

 

[Nargil]

There's a lot of damage if your website is new, as it can be removed from Google completely after a negative blast. About the legal part, this practice is considered unfair competition.

However, that damage cannot be proven by any means. Not even by, not sure how you call it in english, loss of profit? Since there aren't any historical data of profit.

 

[mickyfu]

Again.. the classic thread about Google Bowling, a.k.a Negative SEO. Intentionally sabotaging a business is illegal. However, I think you guys are overestimating the power of negative link building. What happens if you take one of the top 500 urls in Alexa and blast it to 200,000 bad links? Will you ruin it's Google rankings causing millions of dollars to be lost? I don't think so. Google has no manual intervention and rankings are solely decided by the algorithm. If your website is qualitative enough or authoritative, it cannot be affected by negative seo. The algorithm does a great job to detect those bad links and just ignores them, instead of penalizing the website, or the "victim". If your site is new, there is no protection from bowling except the disavow links tool.

Again someone jumps in with link building. Link building is the very bottom of the barrel shit neg SEO. It is what clowns consider as negative SEO. It is far from it. There are several other far more effective ways of damaging a websites ranking, than firing up xrumer with "I like dicks" "porn" and various other wank.

 

[cursedbrain]

However, that damage cannot be proven by any means. Not even by, not sure how you call it in english, loss of profit? Since there aren't any historical data of profit.

The damage can be easily proved by showing how revenue dropped after your website was penalized. It's almost impossible to prove that someone did negative SEO, I agree on that though.

 

[Nargil]

The damage can be easily proved by showing how revenue dropped after your website was penalized. It's almost impossible to prove that someone did negative SEO, I agree on that though.

I presumed that if "site is new", the earnings are either minimal or non existent, thus the lack of any previous earnings to measure loss of profit from.

 

[darulez]

Hey guys, kinda noob to the SEO scene but I'm definitely learning a lot, especially thanks to this site.

I was told there's a company in Colorado that specifically focuses on negative seo. Isn't this illegal? Just curious how a company that admittedly does this could stay in business?

Dont know, but I ya somehow get caught in germany, you wont land in jail, but you can say goodbye for the next 30 years to any wealth you got and donate it to your comepitor

 

[Nargil]

There is an offence for running a plane into a building now though is there? NO.
There is many other laws it breaks, but nothing is specific in "running a plane into a building".

How can you say there is a need for damage for it to be illegal? Plenty of acts are illegal, without damage being needed. I.e Fraud in the UK, loss is not a requirement.

Well that's what I am saying all the way. You do not need anything as specific as "running a plane into a building" for it to be illegal, just like in case of negative SEO.

The damage is requirement in this particular case. And as far as I know, the same goes for fraud - Fraud by false representation. (ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

In both cases of fraud, the loss is a requirement. And with negative SEO of a brand new site, there is no gain in the first place, so there is no loss risked and thus no damage.

 

[MikeyMikey13]

Well that's what I am saying all the way. You do not need anything as specific as "running a plane into a building" for it to be illegal, just like in case of negative SEO.

The damage is requirement in this particular case. And as far as I know, the same goes for fraud - Fraud by false representation. (ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

In both cases of fraud, the loss is a requirement. And with negative SEO of a brand new site, there is no gain in the first place, so there is no loss risked and thus no damage.

Right last reply now because i've given up:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35

Section 2(1)(b)intends, by making the representation—
(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

The word intends plays a big role in that. It means damages do not have to occur.

 

[Nargil]

Right last reply now because i've given up:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35

Section 2(1)(b)intends, by making the representation—
(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

The word intends plays a big role in that. It means damages do not have to occur.

Sure, some laws require intention only, the deed doesn't have to go through. There's nothing to argue about. Still, we are talking about negative SEO, which doesn't fall within the fraud.

However, that's still not the point. Point is, that you can't cause a loss if something does not make money or has no value. If there's a new website that makes 0 and I neg SEO it, what is the loss there? How will you measure the loss? Its income is still the same. 0. Maybe if it were some specific expensive domain name, but even then, it would require some court experts to actually determine the value of the domain and how neg SEO lowered it, etc, which is something from sci-fi.

I still love you.

 

[Iam420]

You would think so right? I am under a negative seo attack and it doesn't work the way you may think.

What's happening to me is I'm getting hammered with bots to take up resources. This would be a ddos except it's only ran about once per minute and hits the website multiple times to have huge server load time spikes. Google bot doesn't like this.

Not only that but they have created multiple websites so whenever I make an article they copy it immediacy to their spam sites to get ahead of the ranking for me until that site is gone and then repeat.

I'm also being victim on facebook with spam likes to make my website have the confirm button.

I'm also being being attacked at my newsletter by automated sign ups that report my newsletter. I had had 5 or less per day for years but now it's constantly 50 plus.

I know who is doing it and reached out to google with as much evidence as I could and they basically told me we are not the police.

This is not all that is happening. There is fraud and lots of other things I see popping up.

You say it's easy for someone to stop this. Please tell me what I can do to stop this from happening!

Unless I can supena these hosts somehow and do all the investigations myself I am screwed?

Please offer any advice.

 

[MikeyMikey13]

Sure, some laws require intention only, the deed doesn't have to go through. There's nothing to argue about. Still, we are talking about negative SEO, which doesn't fall within the fraud.

However, that's still not the point. Point is, that you can't cause a loss if something does not make money or has no value. If there's a new website that makes 0 and I neg SEO it, what is the loss there? How will you measure the loss? Its income is still the same. 0. Maybe if it were some specific expensive domain name, but even then, it would require some court experts to actually determine the value of the domain and how neg SEO lowered it, etc, which is something from sci-fi.

I still love you.

Ehh I see what you mean man, but I think it is something we could sit here and have a back and forth about all day lol.

Love you too bro

 

[Nargil]

Ehh I see what you mean man, but I think it is something we could sit here and have a back and forth about all day lol.

Love you too bro

I still got half the bottle of wine here, some mead and around 10 unopened bottles of 40%+ booze ranging from vodka, to tequila, whiskey, gin...

You would think so right? I am under a negative seo attack and it doesn't work the way you may think.

What's happening to me is I'm getting hammered with bots to take up resources. This would be a ddos except it's only ran about once per minute and hits the website multiple times to have huge server load time spikes. Google bot doesn't like this.

Not only that but they have created multiple websites so whenever I make an article they copy it immediacy to their spam sites to get ahead of the ranking for me until that site is gone and then repeat.

I'm also being victim on facebook with spam likes to make my website have the confirm button.

I'm also being being attacked at my newsletter by automated sign ups that report my newsletter. I had had 5 or less per day for years but now it's constantly 50 plus.

I know who is doing it and reached out to google with as much evidence as I could and they basically told me we are not the police.

This is not all that is happening. There is fraud and lots of other things I see popping up.

You say it's easy for someone to stop this. Please tell me what I can do to stop this from happening!

Unless I can supena these hosts somehow and do all the investigations myself I am screwed?

Please offer any advice.

And this is exactly the problem. How do you prove that it is your competitor that does that? I would definitely at least try to go to the police and explain the situation. I still have no idea how exactly would they even begin to investigate who is behind it, but I guess there might be some ways. Give it a shot.

 

[MikeyMikey13]

I still got half the bottle of wine here, some mead and around 10 unopened bottles of 40%+ booze ranging from vodka, to tequila, whiskey, gin...

I'm sippin my JD

 

[validseo]

I keep a growing knowledge base of all the Negative SEO attacks I've encountered or read about and these are just the section headings from the document. I agree with the claims that there is a lot more going on with negative SEO than just spammy backlinks. I'm not sharing the meat of the document... so don't ask...

1. Search Result Hijacking
2. Getting the website banned from search results.
3. Getting a page demoted in the rankings.
4. Stealing a website’s customers.
5. Stealing a website’s content.
6. Steal a website’s viewers or contributors.
7. Changing the topics a webpage ranks for.
8. Trying to hurt the reputation of the website.
9. Trying to hurt the reputation of the author.
10. Hurting the reputation of a product.
11. Squandering a website’s ad spend.
12. Ruining a website’s content or data.
13. Disrupting the operation of the website.
14. Causing financial harm to a website.
15. Causing confusion
16. Slander and false claims
17. Harassment
18. Check for spammy links
19. Check for fake ratings and reviews (worst product ever)
20. Check for rating and review spam (this is ok but my product over here is Check for GoogleBot interruption
21. Check for false canonicalization
22. Check for false authorship
23. Check for toxic domain redirection
24. Check for denial of service
25. Catalog of attacks
26. Check for crippling the site’s speed
27. Check for fraudulent DMCA takedown
28. Check for Cross site scripting
29. Check for Hacking the site
30. Check for Keyword bombing posts and comments
31. Check for Website or Social Identity Theft
32. Check for Fake complaints
33. Check for CTR and other false signal bots
34. Fake spam email.
35. Fake bots
36. Alternative URLs
37. New Keyword Context
38. Right Keywords, Wrong Page
39. Form Spam
40. Adult content
41. Adult Links
42. Misuse of Disavow
43. Check for misuse of Google’s spam report form
44. Bad writing
45. Unwanted bots and directories
46. Domain name bot activity
47. Check for Negative and false Press
48. Shady sources of backlinks
49. Content overflow
50. Topic flooding
51. Bad Post Bumping
52. Fake Link Removal Requests
53. Flooding junk traffic
54. Check for Domain squatting and hijacking
55. Check Google Search Console Messages for penalties
56. Check Google Search Console Messages for outages
57. Check Google Search Console Messages for crawl errors
58. Desktop versus mobile server errors
59. Desktop versus mobile not found errors
60. Archive suspicious errors
61. Linking Domains
62. Traffic Origins
63. Duplicate titles and descriptions
64. Check Server Logs: SQL injection
65. Check Server Logs: Vulnerability Testing
66. Check Server Logs: 500-503 Errors
67. Check Server Logs: Outrageous requests per second
68. Check Server Logs: Bad Bots
69. 404 Errors
70. Check search results for bizarre URLs
71. Check search results for domains matching your content
72. Check search results for unusual sub-domains
73. Check search results for odd URL parameters and URL anchors
74. Check search results for negative mentions of domain or products
75. Check website for unnatural ratings and reviews
76. Check website for comment or post spam
77. Topic Spam
78. Check website for profile spam
79. Unpatched servers
80. Outdated web platform and plugins
81. Missing Wordpress Security Plugins
82. Admin Accounts
83. Use strong passwords for website accounts
84. Don't share accounts or email credentials
85. Use a version control system and check the update status of deployed code Don't let your domain registration lapse
86. Check for fraud order events and credit card testing
87. Check for customer service spikes