Withdrawing 40,000EUR..

[neilbhabuta]

It does not work like that my friend.
Most European countries (i assume OP is European) have a very strict rule against that, it doesnt matter if you live in XXX and have a company in YYY.

If you live in XXX and have company in YYY you still need to pay taxes to the XXX government.

Only on your salary. You could not pay yourself a salary and pay yourself dividends. There is no tax on these

 

[kaurr]

you will be safe if you are using payoneer in Estonia, i have cashed out alot with payoneer in Estonia even if im Estonian citizen and never had any guys asking from me "where are the taxes bro?"

 

[Divxup]

interesting thing is what ATM "see" when you withdrawing ? everything is automated , (money reservation.. ect) , or guys in another side of the cable is watching you

 

[shiva008]

The real amazing thing is people will actually sign up for a SEO forum to ask how to hide money.

For Office Space dude!

 

[Vlad D]

Use as many banks as possible , and withdraw for 1-2 months sums under 1000 euro. You should be fine , in my country they don't report ATM transactions , only entering money in your account .

 

[seoguy81]

Amazed at the amount of misinformation that goes around.

This is it , all my bitcoins are sold and all money in n26.com , i have debit card from them, and withdraws will start soon. card is issued in Germany, i live in Latvia. The thing is that i don't want to send all the money to Latvian bank account because i will have to pay tax, (income tax) (declaration) .

But what will happen when i withdrawing from Latvian bank ATM , ~3000EUR, every singe day. What ATM can "see" ?? can Latvian bank get my identity trough other country issued debit card ? How to hide that amount of money from Latvian tax ?

The moment you withdraw funds to a bank, you will be under the radar, especially if the trnx looks suspicious. EU Banks (starting 2017) have a new law to with hold any transaction they find to be suspicious and will hold the money (in your case incoming money) until you prove the legitimacy of it. In other words, if you prove the money is legit you will be forced to pay tax. No bank will tell you this on your face. They will release the funds but will inform the tax authorities. Its like a trap. A year or two later financial authorities will send a letter on this very trnx on which you failed to pay taxes.

How much is this scary tax ?

The tax depends on the money. If its LTCG (long term cap. gains) then its 15 - 13%, if it is personal income, then tax is 23% (this is the rate one would be taxed at, for example if you get adsense money).

In Latvia if you are trying to withdraw more than 7k in one month, you will get a letter from govmnt asking where did you get it and why not paying taxes. And it does not matter that you have german card.

Absolutely! But I think the limit is a lot less than that. 5k in withdrawals if i'm not mistaken. Again this depends on your bank. Most banks as part of KYC already have info on your withdrawal patterns. So anything out of the ordinary is a red flag.

I have payoneer card , and its also in MY name, so how it would be okay ?
just checked that my payoneer card is issued from wirecard solutions (UK!!)

40k is a big amount. You can get away with Payoneer or skrill card or any other pre paid MC for a small amount.

Only on your salary. You could not pay yourself a salary and pay yourself dividends. There is no tax on these

There is a tax on salary, its called personal income tax and dividends are also subject to tax.

@Divxup If your payments were legit (and they look legit if you really sold BTC), your best option is to withdraw funds, pay the bloody 23% tax and finish the story. Have proper paperwork to back up the money trail and that's it.
Alternately, you can try to make purchases online and spend that money as long as the funds are virtual and do not hit your destination bank. You can do some shopping for your friends on amazon and ebay or some UK online retailers and take cash from them instead.

Try to limit your one time spending or withdrawal to under 250/trnx and under 1000/mo max to be safe.

Btw, it doesn't matter if you go to estonia to withdraw funds. ATM's might look different but they are all linked to the same network.

Good luck

 

[islandman1010]

Can you even draw out 3000e from a cash machine now? In the UK our max is around £300 a day for most banks. Some a little more and some a little less.

 

[HoNeYBiRD]

In Latvia if you are trying to withdraw more than 7k in one month, you will get a letter from govmnt asking where did you get it and why not paying taxes. And it does not matter that you have german card.

This doesn't make too much sense. He has a foreign card meaning his government can't possibly have a clue about it even if the countries are inside the EU, there's no such monetary cooperation between countries.

What you're saying only makes sense, if you have a domestic card with a domestic bank account, that's what governments can check, but not banks of other countries (especially when they can't possibly have a clue as to what check and where) unless its a criminal matter and even then they might not get anything.

If he's the paranoid type, he can just do what he suggested: drive to Estonia a few times to make the withdrawals and his government will be non the wiser for sure.

You will pay almost the same amount of money every day for a withdrawing fee than just paying tax.

This is pure BS. It would make Latvia a tax heaven, which is not. I just checked, the income tax in Latvia is 23%, while a withdrawal costs at most 3% of the withdrawn amount with any credit card (plus a low flat rate like $3/withdrawal), when used outside of the country of its origin.

So in his case, if he can withdraw 3k EUR in a go, it would mean 14x$3 + at most 3% of the withdrawn amount, which is roughly 1.2k EUR (at most) opposed to 9.2k EUR, if he would actually choose to pay the taxes. You just costed at least 8k EUR for the OP or even more if he doesn't have to pay any percentage, because he's withdrawing EURs after all.

One thing is sure, i wouldn't like you to be neither my tax adviser nor my accountant. lol

I say fuck paying taxes on internet income, the government doesn't do shit to help me make that money. We already pay taxes on the electricity, on the machines and on internet we use. Governments can fuck off when it comes to the taxation of internet income. Everyone who's in the position to play tricks is playing tricks even offline when it comes to paying taxes, why wouldn't we do the same? Cover your tracks and enjoy your money, you earned it.

@Divxup: tl;dr Latvia is not that big of a country, just make the trip or trips to Estonia, if it gives you a piece of mind, but it's the same as if you were withdrawing in Latvia, your government won't know about your German bank account/card. Maybe go with smaller withdrawals and use ATMs belonging to different banks. Also use the card for purchases whenever you can.

@seoguy81: I think you're overlooked one detail, the account/card in question is of foreign origin. The things you said can be true in a domestic situation. In addition this N26 OP's talking about looks a lot like Payoneer and not a real bank, so i can imagine they aren't that well-regulated (yet).

 

[islandman1010]

This doesn't make too much sense. He has a foreign card meaning his government can't possibly have a clue about it even if the countries are inside the EU, there's no such monetary cooperation between countries.

What you're saying only makes sense, if you have a domestic card with a domestic bank account, that's what governments can check, but not banks of other countries (especially when they can't possibly have a clue as to what check and where) unless its a criminal matter and even then they might not get anything.

If he's the paranoid type, he can just do what he suggested: drive to Estonia a few times to make the withdrawals and his government will be non the wiser for sure.

I dont think that's correct in general. I think he should read this for better clarification. Basically Estonia and Latvia do share financial information as well as Germany inside the EU. I would imagine that drawing out 40,000 E in s short time is going to raise some flags.

Just checked and N26 does have a German banking license. That's probably one of the strongest banking systems in Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...3/51-countries-sign-up-to-share-tax-data.html

 

[HoNeYBiRD]

I dont think that's correct in general. I think he should read this for better clarification. Basically Estonia and Latvia do share financial information as well as Germany inside the EU. I would imagine that drawing out 40,000 E in s short time is going to raise some flags.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...3/51-countries-sign-up-to-share-tax-data.html

Thanks for this. I looked into it. I'm not sure if N26 falls into the same category as a real bank, but in any case the intended first information exchange date for Latvia is September 2017. So OP, hurry the fuck up with the withdrawal , it will be soon in past tense what i wrote above. And maybe close the account after that.

 

[WizGizmo]

Thread moved to the Business & Tax Advice section.

 

[Frederik Kim]

Thanks for this. I looked into it. I'm not sure if N26 falls into the same category as a real bank, but in any case the http://www.oecd.org/tax/exchange-of-tax-information/mcaa-signatories.pdf. So OP, hurry the fuck up with the withdrawal , it will be soon in past tense what i wrote above. And maybe close the account after that.

Why do you think they won't be able to share information about past transactions?

The best solution for EU residents is to receive money from sales (e.g. bitcoin sales) to a USD card. USD card is by definition attached to an US account, which is not subject to EU regulations in most cases. Additionally, the best way to cash out is to get a yearly visa to some neighboring non-EU country and use ATMs there. You can bring up to 10k euros through the border without declaring.

 

[islandman1010]

Thanks for this. I looked into it. I'm not sure if N26 falls into the same category as a real bank, but in any case the intended first information exchange date for Latvia is September 2017. So OP, hurry the fuck up with the withdrawal , it will be soon in past tense what i wrote above. And maybe close the account after that.

They have a German and an EU banking license. They are a bank. They have to follow the same rules and regs as Barclays, HSBC etc. The 2017 date is the date of exchanging the data under the new scheme. There was already the existing EU scheme for this. The 2017 will see the data they hold sent over. Drawing out now and closing the account doesnt lose the data. I think the OP needs to go to a fincancial advisor in Latvia. It is the safest way.

 

[SkyrocketSEO]

Why would anyone report you for withdrawing your money from ATM. You know, there are a LOT of people with a LOT of money that regularly withdraw thousands of EUR/$ from ATMs worldwide. Do you really think banks will scramble to report all those people to authorities? And for what? For withdrawing their money?

 

[HoNeYBiRD]

They have a German and an EU banking license. They are a bank. They have to follow the same rules and regs as Barclays, HSBC etc. The 2017 date is the date of exchanging the data under the new scheme. There was already the existing EU scheme for this. The 2017 will see the data they hold sent over. Drawing out now and closing the account doesnt lose the data. I think the OP needs to go to a fincancial advisor in Latvia. It is the safest way.

Latvian banking is not overregulated to say the least, there was a big money laundering scandal last year: https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/5358-latvian-banks-promote-money-laundering-companies

"Documents leaked to the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) from Latvian banks appear to offer instructions to clients on how to use fake offshore companies associated with the bank to launder money or evade taxes."

Now looking at this and i know it's a different situation, but i still don't think that as of now a too deep level of cooperation could realistically exist between an online/mobile financial service (which just got its banking license a few months back) and a foreign government (practically a hotbed of institutionalized money laundering) be it in or outside the EU.

But yea, better be safe than sorry, so OP, go to a financial advisor.

 

[Dragneell]

If you latvian citizen just pay your tax, be a good citizen.

Nice one mate,he wants to avoid tax that is how bad citizens thinks.

 

[Dragneell]

If you latvian citizen just pay your tax, be a good citizen.

Nice one mate,he wants to avoid tax that is how bad citizens thinks.

 

[Jeepy]

Latvian banking is not overregulated to say the least, there was a big money laundering scandal last year: https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/5358-latvian-banks-promote-money-laundering-companies

"Documents leaked to the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) from Latvian banks appear to offer instructions to clients on how to use fake offshore companies associated with the bank to launder money or evade taxes."

Now looking at this and i know it's a different situation, but i still don't think that as of now a too deep level of cooperation could realistically exist between an online/mobile financial service (which just got its banking license a few months back) and a foreign government (practically a hotbed of institutionalized money laundering) be it in or outside the EU.

But yea, better be safe than sorry, so OP, go to a financial advisor.

Yea man, they are not watching very high amount of money transaction, but they are watching small ones like hungry dog bones. Really, I know this shit. Everything under 100k is under radar and even the smallest mistake and you are fcked.

 

[Heisenberg]

Nice one mate,he wants to avoid tax that is how bad citizens thinks.

I'd never pay taxes either, if I was going to I would have to pay roughly 40-45% to my country.
I said the day they make clear laws regarding internet income and sane tax % I'll do it, untill then I'll be finding loopholes how to evade it like I did so far.

 

[LionMK]

Go to Russia (non-EU) country and withdraw smaller amounts from different ATMs. But, you will have to do this for a few days. In addition, check what's the amount of money you have to report to your authorities when you are crossing the border. In my country you have to report over 10,000 EUR when you are leaving the country.