Cloudflare Server IP and other Footprints? Wincher, maybe?

[leemajors]

Hey all...

I've got a question for you, I hope somebody can help me.

I'm running multiple domains through cloudflare. I'm using a separate cloudflare account for each domain to get different random cloudflare name servers, none of the DNS records are directly pointing to the server. Still, suddenly all domains got de-indexed simultaneously.

These are the footprints I can potentially think of:
- cloudflare (that would be BAD!)
- all domains registered at the same exact time at namecheap (whois guard though). Unlikely, if you ask me.
- I'm using "Wincher" as a rank tracker. Weirdly enough only the ones (of the same batch) that I've added to Wincher to track rankings got de-indexed. There one that survived is not on Wincher. It doesn't make any sense to me either, as I would not think that Google can be aware of what domain I'm tracking unless Wincher somehow embeds it in their query when they scrape the Google results.
... What the hell is it?


Does anyone know if Cloudflare releases, submits or otherwise divulges any information to Google regarding the real Server IPs or owners (account email address for example) behind a Cloudflare account? Do you think it's possible that there is any behind-the-scenes partnership that releases information about connected accounts to Google?


Any help and information is greatly appreciated.


Thanks!!
Lee

 

[starki]

Wincher doesn't make sense, I don't know this tool, but all rank checkers simply scrape the SERPs. They don't do any "site:" or "domainname.com" queries that could look suspicious in huge numbers, they don't click any results.

Cloudflare and namecheap with the same registration date don't sound like a reliable footprint for Google, too.

De-indexing always means there is something on the site itself Google hates (site exists for linking to other sites only, site is automatically generated "pure spam" content), so if it's no PBN sites (I assume since rank tranking makes zero sense for PBN domains), there must be something else onpage these sites have in common.

Last but not least: Spam report by a competitor. If someone stumples on your sites, does a little research and presents them to Google on a silver plater, zero footprints won't save you.

 

[leemajors]

Hi starki,

I do agree on everything you said. And yes, the sites are pure spam content and Google certainly doesn't like that. But I'm experimenting with various things here and they turn out to be working fine. I had sites up that were up for months, and they were not detected. Some domains in that pool are there for longer, have survived fine. Now, the recent batch I added over a period of a couple of days got de-indexed pretty much all at once, BUT those old old sites were hit too. Makes no sense. And only the domains that were not added to the rank tracker survived. Weird, isn't it?

Wincher doesn't make sense, I don't know this tool, but all rank checkers simply scrape the SERPs. They don't do any "site:" or "domainname.com" queries that could look suspicious in huge numbers, they don't click any results.

Cloudflare and namecheap with the same registration date don't sound like a reliable footprint for Google, too.

De-indexing always means there is something on the site itself Google hates (site exists for linking to other sites only, site is automatically generated "pure spam" content), so if it's no PBN sites (I assume since rank tranking makes zero sense for PBN domains), there must be something else onpage these sites have in common.

Last but not least: Spam report by a competitor. If someone stumples on your sites, does a little research and presents them to Google on a silver plater, zero footprints won't save you.

 

[starki]

Yep, really weird. Assuming you aren't Wincher's only customer, what I would believe in good conscience after having a look at their website, it must be some strange conincidence without any causation.

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

Are the sites actually hosted on the same server/IP? That would be a major footprint.
Even if you are using CloudFlare, there are plenty of resolvers that can reveal the real IP address.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cloudflare+resolver

 

[leemajors]

Thanks for your input. But no, I tried several of them and there's no way that the IP can be revealed. Any resolver service is based on some DNS leak, like a subdomain or mail entries. These zone entries don't exist on the domains, and they never did. I make 100% sure that they're disguised from the very first second.

Are the sites actually hosted on the same server/IP? That would be a major footprint.
Even if you are using CloudFlare, there are plenty of resolvers that can reveal the real IP address.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cloudflare+resolver

 

[leemajors]

Yep, really weird. Assuming you aren't Wincher's only customer, what I would believe in good conscience after having a look at their website, it must be some strange conincidence without any causation.

"...strange conincidence without any causation", like winning the lottery. I don't buy into that.

 

[redrays]

Thanks for your input. But no, I tried several of them and there's no way that the IP can be revealed. Any resolver service is based on some DNS leak, like a subdomain or mail entries. These zone entries don't exist on the domains, and they never did. I make 100% sure that they're disguised from the very first second.

This is good, helpful information for people using Cloudflare, so thanks for sharing it.

Hey all...

I've got a question for you, I hope somebody can help me.

I'm running multiple domains through cloudflare. I'm using a separate cloudflare account for each domain to get different random cloudflare name servers, none of the DNS records are directly pointing to the server. Still, suddenly all domains got de-indexed simultaneously.

These are the footprints I can potentially think of:
- cloudflare (that would be BAD!)
- all domains registered at the same exact time at namecheap (whois guard though). Unlikely, if you ask me.
- I'm using "Wincher" as a rank tracker. Weirdly enough only the ones (of the same batch) that I've added to Wincher to track rankings got de-indexed. There one that survived is not on Wincher. It doesn't make any sense to me either, as I would not think that Google can be aware of what domain I'm tracking unless Wincher somehow embeds it in their query when they scrape the Google results.
... What the hell is it?


Does anyone know if Cloudflare releases, submits or otherwise divulges any information to Google regarding the real Server IPs or owners (account email address for example) behind a Cloudflare account? Do you think it's possible that there is any behind-the-scenes partnership that releases information about connected accounts to Google?


Any help and information is greatly appreciated.


Thanks!!
Lee

No, Cloudflare is not releasing this information to Google. I host 100+ domains on the same server, all of them running through Cloudflare. I had deindexing problems back when I had Cloudflare set up incorrectly (the leaks you mentioned), and I also had deindexing problems when I did not run the domains through Cloudflare (LOL I'm dumb). Since correcting my setup, everything has been fine.

Can you provide more specifics about the domains and what you were doing with them?

 

[Aatrox]

I can just say that Cloudflare is working great for me. Been using it for a long time and never god de-indexed.

 

[UptonGoodwin]

I think you just aren't looking deep enough. Something was the same on all these sites that linked them altogether and you got busted. What you've given us isn't enough to really figure out what happened, you're gonna have to think harder on what you did on these pure spam sites.

Edit - I guess wincher has a WordPress plugin, hope you didn't have that on all your sites.

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

Thanks for your input. But no, I tried several of them and there's no way that the IP can be revealed. Any resolver service is based on some DNS leak, like a subdomain or mail entries. These zone entries don't exist on the domains, and they never did. I make 100% sure that they're disguised from the very first second.

The footprint is if ALL your sites are using CloudFlare, even if the host IP isn't leaking.
Everybody is using cloudflare for PBN's, Google knows this.
Every PBN guide out there suggest using CloudFlare because of the numbers of sites they host.
If you have a few sites on CloudFlare, a few on Amazon, +use other CDN's then that is fine.
If all your sites are on CloudFlare it WILL be a footprint, especially if your other linkbuilding is low quality.
Having said that your problem could be a number of issues including the registration date, even though you have WHOIS protection.
Having all your sites on CloudFlare and all sites registered the same day then yes, that is a Massive footprint.

 

[leemajors]

I think you just aren't looking deep enough. Something was the same on all these sites that linked them altogether and you got busted. What you've given us isn't enough to really figure out what happened, you're gonna have to think harder on what you did on these pure spam sites.

Edit - I guess wincher has a WordPress plugin, hope you didn't have that on all your sites.

Even if I left a footprint by using ?wordpress? or by using a certain plugin (No, I?m not using the Wincher plugin) that cannot be the reason how Google is able to connect the sites to one person, there are simply too many others who would leave the same footprint and Google would risk to de-index sites that are not related or connected at all for no reason.

The footprint is if ALL your sites are using CloudFlare, even if the host IP isn't leaking.
Everybody is using cloudflare for PBN's, Google knows this.
Every PBN guide out there suggest using CloudFlare because of the numbers of sites they host.
If you have a few sites on CloudFlare, a few on Amazon, +use other CDN's then that is fine.
If all your sites are on CloudFlare it WILL be a footprint, especially if your other linkbuilding is low quality.
Having said that your problem could be a number of issues including the registration date, even though you have WHOIS protection.
Having all your sites on CloudFlare and all sites registered the same day then yes, that is a Massive footprint.

Well, thanks for your feedback Asif. I will have to give you some more information though.
- These sites are NOT a PBNs.
- There are zero backlinks to the sites.
- The sites do NOT link out to any sites that are in any way connected.
- All sites are in different niches / have different content.
- The host IP is NOT leaking and never has.


So even if cloudflare is a footprint, there are millions of sites that use cloudflare. Google cannot possibly know that these sites are created by the same person just by the fact that they?re using cloudflare.

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

...

Well, thanks for your feedback Asif. I will have to give you some more information though.
- These sites are NOT a PBNs.
- There are zero backlinks to the sites.
- The sites do NOT link out to any sites that are in any way connected.
- All sites are in different niches / have different content.
- The host IP is NOT leaking and never has.


So even if cloudflare is a footprint, there are millions of sites that use cloudflare. Google cannot possibly know that these sites are created by the same person just by the fact that they're using cloudflare.

Sorry, for some reason I got it into my head we were talking about a PBN.

 

[leemajors]

No need to be sorry man.
This is indeed driving me nuts, I can't figure out how Google is connecting the dots, there are none.

Sorry, for some reason I got it into my head we were talking about a PBN.

BTW, I confirmed with Cloudflare... might be useful information for others too.

Here's an excerpt of my conversation:
Me: "Does Cloudflare release, submit or otherwise divulge any information to Google regarding the real Server IPs behind a Cloudflare account? Is there any behind-the-scenes partnership that releases connected accounts to a third party, be it Google or any other search engine?"
Them: "No, we do not release any private information on your zone and origin server details to anyone. We will only release this information to law enforcement if they have the proper court issued paperwork."

In other words, Cloudflare does NOT leak the server IP, if set up properly of course.

To get a little deeper into the topic, I hope somebody can follow me.
Google obviously indexed content, and most likely somehow 'fingerprints' the structure of a website to find similarities among sites across the web. So, if the IP is different and the sites have nothing in common aside from standard things that can be found on thousands of other sites out there (i.e. use wordpress, a specific wordpress theme etc...), that wouldn't make them subject to de-indexing at all, right?

But let's say the 'structural fingerprint' would somehow be accurate enough to find a small enough amount of websites out there to run them through manual reviews, how could one potentially avoid that? ..meaning, what randomization in terms of html structure would be necessary to trick google?
Thoughts?