Corrupt Forum Helping CPAGrip Silence People

[Roja89]

Hi everyone

I wanted to share as im told BHW is a no BS no filters kind of place.

I recently signed up at CPAGrip and wasnt crazy about their payouts. I took a look to see how people were doing and the performance was terrible for the volume that I saw as people were shout posting their results in chat.

7 different publishers with about 100-125 clicks or so combined for 1 single affiliate getting 1 lead and the others getting zero. There were complaining in chat.

So I thought ok, thats a bad first impression. I decided to look it up on forums to see what people were saying if anything and found a thread on the forum CPAElites that was all about how CPAGrip isnt the same and people were complaining about low CR, bad earnings, how its changed, lead shaving, payout issues and the like. I thought ok this makes sense on the low CR for sure since thats exactly what I just saw with my own eyes and people are complaining about bad earnings.

So I left a review without insult or attacking anyone and even showed a screenshot of my experience and offered my affiliate ID. I basically said hey its not a huge sample pool but when I test networks I usually only send about 100-150 clicks to get a feel for it and I expect more than 0. I may have been in on a bad day but over 7 people combined for a good amount of clicks and had nothing to show for it plus there were complaints there and a thread was made about it. My 2 cents.

A guy named CPAGripJohn came in and instead of addressing it he bashed me saying that I clearly dont understand anything and at night time thats how it goes on a new day. I was like ok time of day might mean more clicks or less but its still a sample pool and thats my experience. He bashed me and moved on.

Here's where it gets bad. CPAGrip told the Admin or owner named Hawk Eye who came in warned me not to leave any of those kind of reviews and added the rule is now that you have to show over 150 clicks when leaving a review LOL. So basically the rule is suddenly anything above what I showed.

Then CPAGrip went and deleted all of the posts it wrote to me, the Hawk Eye guy cleaned up all the posts and when I tried to reply and say hey guys this is kinda corrupt, I left an honest legit review, I backed it up with a screenshot and even offered my affiliate ID. I got a message saying that I was not allowed to comment on that thread anymore and all future posts would be moderated.

The CPAGrip guy never replied to me or reached out. Basically I came in with a legit honest review backed up by screenshots that were real which no one contested. CPAGrip bashed me instead of addressing it, reported me, got me kicked out, deleted all of the posts even their own on the matter and had the thread locked down.

WTF. I respect running a business but take the good with the bad. CORRUPT BS from CPAGrip and from the Elites guys. Never working with them. Not that i make any serious money

SCREENSHOTS just add all of these are at imgur and just add a .png to the end of all of them:

/USUE9Fn one of the screenshots I took in chat. Looking for the other one now but they deleted it.
/uw7e8if Showing that no one can post on it anymore without moderation from admin, conveniently after my post
/zAs9jXm Admin addressing me on the thread. The stuff about no clicks is BS. He addresses me yet all my comments and those from CPAGrip are gone? ok bud.


Thanks Blackhatworld. I hope that I can just have a voice here and not get censored if I dont kiss a company's rear end and that no company has the owners or admin in their back pocket.

Roland aka Roja

 

[Peter Ngo]

Well i have no idea what you went through in CPAelites and CPAgrip.

But to be honest, i have been working with CPAgrip for quite some time and i know some serious earner there, they are still earning big bucks.

I talk to John from time to time and i have to say, he is one of the best affiliate manager out there.

Do you mind send me the deleted URL of the post you made in CPAelites?

 

[wowhaxor]

To be fair it's very possible to not have a conversion at 100-150 clicks. Really you'd need a bigger sample to know. Another thing to keep in mind is that both publishers and networks may shave leads on low quality offers based on the amount of fraud an offer is receiving which is why it's important to test similar offers, and even the same offer on different networks, to make sure it's converting as well as it can/should.

I think your post may have gotten you removed because at a hundred users that traffic doesn't really show anything so whether you're right or wrong you can't really accuse anyone or draw conclusions from that low traffic.

 

[Roja89]

To be fair it's very possible to not have a conversion at 100-150 clicks. Really you'd need a bigger sample to know. Another thing to keep in mind is that both publishers and networks may shaved on low quality offers based on the amount of fraud an offer is receiving which is why it's important to test similar offers, and even the same offer on different networks, to make sure it's converting as well as it can/should.

I think your post may have gotten you removed because at a hundred users that traffic doesn't really show anything so whether you're right or wrong you can't really accuse anyone or draw conclusions from that low traffic.

Oh that would make sense but a few things

1) Other people were posting with absolutely no evidence of clicks and nothing happened.
2) Added all up there were hundreds of clicks. I get it and it doesnt mean that there needs to be a conversion but a bunch of publishers all with a bunch of clicks and bad stats. Its fair to say its bad.
3) Then why delete a network just bashing me? Thats just the guy being a jerkoff. Its like I get it its a biz but not everything is going to be sunshine all the time and you cant just be like oh love everyone who says good things but ban, delete, block and insult someone who says something not positive.

Its not like i was rude. Its not like I didnt provide support. It would have been a perfect discussion to explain something to me! But CPAGrip basically calls me stupid for not saying something they like then they report me and everything gets deleted and shut down? If im so stupid then why delete everything you say to me? Just make me look stupid and move on! Id have respected that. I wanted an explanation or discussion...

The bad CR and results with CPAGrip arent really my issue. I didnt like their payouts and thats ok I dont have to use them. My issue is how no other network gets special treatment and I got slammed by CPAGrip for even having an opinion then the owner who i now understand is hawk eye came in and deleted everything and locked the thread down.

^ Absolute BS. Thats a business paying someone and controlling them to get special treatment. What are forums for if not fair discussion and honest chat about things? like wtf.

 

[wowhaxor]

Oh I certainly agree that they were rude and that's a bad way to treat affiliates, especially since affiliates talk to each other, I'm just saying the forum itself may not be up to anything evil just removing your post because they didn't see evidence of your fraud claim against the network which is a fairly serious accusation.

If they are in fact somehow in control of a forum though that's something to watch out for and then treat it like their business forum and discuss them over here more frankly and impartially. Kind of is shady to have a forum that seems unrelated to the company but controlled by then though I agree on that if that is in fact what's going on here.

 

[Peter Ngo]

I found hawk Eye's response to you and i think it makes a lot of sense.

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[TD="class: trow2 post_content"]Right, I'll just throw this out there real quick to save any confusion. 

Roja, the review you left on here was flawed based on the fact that you have no clicks, your statistics are WAY to low to compare or leave negative reviews. Furthermore I'm seeing a lot of these types of reviews left without what is expected based on the rules of this section: *ext link to another forum*

Example: 

Non Network Owners:

- Have you contacted the network in question in an attempt to resolve your issue?
- Can you prove that you are in fact a user on their network?
- Have you responded to them in regards to this matter?
- Do you have over 150-500 clicks and have posted a screen shot of the statistics. Do NOT post negative reviews about bad CR/EPC if you have next to zero clicks, you're only wasting your time by doing this and will end up looking stupid.

PS

I just added this into the mix too: - [COLOR=#FF0000][B]Do you have over 150-500 clicks and have posted a screen shot of the statistics. Do NOT post negative reviews about bad CR/EPC if you have next to zero clicks, you're only wasting your time by doing this and will end up looking stupid.[/B][/COLOR]

I expect all users leaving negative reviews to follow these rules![/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="class: trow1 post_buttons"][/TD]
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[Roja89]

Oh I certainly agree that they were rude and that's a bad way to treat affiliates, especially since affiliates talk to each other,


I'm just saying the forum itself may not be up to anything evil just removing your post because they didn't see evidence of your fraud claim against the network which is a fairly serious accusation

Thank you and I see where youre coming from but its possible im not articulating it properly. Sorry about that. Im not the best at articulating myself.

So the forum suddenly implemented new rules the moment something was unfavorable to CPAGrip. There are many other networks that have had worse written about them with 0 support.
They allowed hearsay on that very same thread but when I came in with evidence they hit the panic button. If you look at the thread there are positive and negative. None of them were deleted but mine contained screenshots.

Now the screenshots added up to whatever a few hundred clicks at most. But I was honest and said hey this is what I see. To not let people make their own decisions and delete everything is crazy.
Whats more is that anyone was able to leave any type of review on that very same thread but when you got to mine which was a fair position with support and a screenshot the CPAGripJohn guy hit the panick button and everything got shut down and only I among everyone in that thread got things deleted then called out by the Admin and warned. So the idea that my sample pool isnt quite big enough is fine but most people had 0 zero sample pool and 0 clicks to draw on. Also like I said if I said anything wrong why doesn't CPAGrip just deny or explain what was wrong? To delete their own posts is also insane.

I can immediately tell this is a different type of forum!

 

[Roja89]

I found hawk Eye's response to you and i think it makes a lot of sense.

[TABLE="class: tborder, width: 1219"]
[TR]
[TD="class: trow2 post_content"]Right, I'll just throw this out there real quick to save any confusion. 

Roja, the review you left on here was flawed based on the fact that you have no clicks, your statistics are WAY to low to compare or leave negative reviews. Furthermore I'm seeing a lot of these types of reviews left without what is expected based on the rules of this section: *ext link to another forum*

Example: 

Non Network Owners:

- Have you contacted the network in question in an attempt to resolve your issue?
- Can you prove that you are in fact a user on their network?
- Have you responded to them in regards to this matter?
- Do you have over 150-500 clicks and have posted a screen shot of the statistics. Do NOT post negative reviews about bad CR/EPC if you have next to zero clicks, you're only wasting your time by doing this and will end up looking stupid.

PS

I just added this into the mix too: - [COLOR=#FF0000][B]Do you have over 150-500 clicks and have posted a screen shot of the statistics. Do NOT post negative reviews about bad CR/EPC if you have next to zero clicks, you're only wasting your time by doing this and will end up looking stupid.[/B][/COLOR]

I expect all users leaving negative reviews to follow these rules!
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: trow1 post_buttons"][/TD]
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It doesn't.

Nobody else on that thread had any kind of clicks or screenshots or support.

Mine did show over 150-500 when added up

So if you agree with what he said then you actually agree with me since I met that criteria. I also offered my Affiliate IDand even noted what time I took screenshots at in case anyone tried to say I was lying...

 

[Roja89]

you cant see my ID or screenshots from the thread though since they all got deleted...people yelling in caps calling each other out with no support but mine gets shut down cause it doesnt favor CPAGrip but it meets all the criteria of a review and everything was 100% legit. No fake screenshots no anything. I wasnt even rude or anything at all. I said hey just my 2 cents on what I see. I hate getting pushed around. Ya im not a "baller" and I dont make a ton of money but if I engage and have a fair honest take on things where I support myself then wth. Why shut me down and erase my voice?

The only thing my review didnt have was something positive for the CPAGrip or something that could easily be refuted.

 

[wowhaxor]

Sorry but I have to agree with the mod over there. You don't have even 125 clicks you have 125 visitors to your page and not even one click to the offer. That has nothing to do with the offer, you couldn't possibly know if it converts if you haven't even sent it any traffic. I'm sorry but your claim was unfounded you can't possibly know anything about the offer with just a few visits to your site and none to the offer.

 

[Peter Ngo]

It doesn't.

Nobody else on that thread had any kind of clicks or screenshots or support.

Mine did show over 150-500 when added up

So if you agree with what he said then you actually agree with me since I met that criteria. I also offered my Affiliate IDand even noted what time I took screenshots at in case anyone tried to say I was lying...

Mate look, i am not trying to say you are lying or anything, i dont even bother to defend cpaelites, i am not even active there.

BUt as i said, i have been working with CPAgrip for quite a long time, and i also knew many serious earners there.

If you can elaborate more in term of your traffic and landing, maybe we can help you more though.

 

[icomaki]

The only real solution to your problem OP is to get better traffic

 

[Roja89]

Sorry but I have to agree with the mod over there. You don't have even 125 clicks you have 125 visitors to your page and not even one click to the offer. That has nothing to do with the offer, you couldn't possibly know if it converts if you haven't even sent it any traffic. I'm sorry but your claim was unfounded you can't possibly know anything about the offer with just a few visits to your site and none to the offer.

Wowhaxor

The sample pool was over 125 clicks and it was from multiple users. I posted multiple screenshots.
I didnt go saving each one of them because I wasnt preparing for a law and order debate.

But yes there were hundreds of clicks from multiple users.

is it possible that its not quite enough to form a final opinion? Sure. Is it good enough to decide hey maybe this isn't the right place? Yes. Is it fair enough to share an opinion? Yes if you support it and prove it.
I did all that.

To suggest that I cant know anything from a sample pool that large is a bit extreme.

Moreover the point being that CPAGrip freaked out when they saw I put up an intelligent or at least semi intelligent lol post that didnt look good.
They told the owner and he went to down. Does he do that on other threads? Nope. Do people even have to post a single screenshot or any proof? Nope.
All of a sudden things change when you say something bad about 1 company and only 1 company. ya that means the company has their ins and its corrupt.

Please explain otherwise. Has to be apples to apples for all users. If theres rules then np! moderate on the rules. Dont just apply some rules to 1 post that happens to not support CPAGrip.

If im a mod I'm not interfering. Why interfere on a good honest thread and opinion. It was a thread about low CR and i posted my take. Completely relevant of me, completely accurate, on topic and clear.

This isnt about whether CPAGrip sucks. Its just that whole own the forum and get help to shut down anyone who doesnt say what you like. Thats BS.

 

[Roja89]

The only real solution to your problem OP is to get better traffic

Ummm it was based on the traffic of multiple people. Guess everyones traffic sucks? Then there was a thread about how CRs suck on the network. I guess everyone on that thread who complained about low CR is lying and I guess I just happened to take screenshots of a bunch of poeple with low CRs.

All coincidence. Not a chance that it adds up... yaaaaa. Still not the point. Forums need filters for extreme stuff but not to help networks curate things to look good. If your gonna do that then say its a sponsored thread.

 

[icomaki]

multiple people is everyone? I see one person in this thread alone who says he converts every 13-18 landings. Im sure he/she counts. Im not gonna argue with you, nor do I really care in the end. Ive never used CPAGRIP. From what I see, is a bunch of newbies expecting there traffic to convert instantly on a few hundred clicks. Oh well, seriously good luck on ur sales.

 

[wowhaxor]

You really can't know though, depending on the quality of the traffic being sent and the complexity of the offer it can take a few hundred visits to get a lead - and that's on average when you are sending thousands you may go more than that from time to time. At the same time if you are running really good traffic, like ppc with a refined and good campaign, you could be converting at every 10 clicks. It's going to depend on the quality of your traffic.

The only way to really verify if the network is shaving is if your conversions drop off with the same traffic, over a much larger traffic/sample size. Or if your comparing to the same or a very similar, in terms of complexity to complete and appeal, offer on a different network. And even then you're not going to be able to tell anything with 125 visitors so I still have to say your post was probably remove because it's unfounded with the info you provided.

 

[Roja89]

at peterngo

thanks and i may take you up on it, I can use help and learn from people. Im doing ok these days but i know people do thousands a day.

Still not the point of this thread though right? Maybe we can PM or skype about other stuff. I cant bring a ton of value but im making 90 on good days so theres potential.

Either way as far as this thread goes. CPAElite basically gets bought by CPAGrip. He had the owners ear and action in 2 seconds on a post that was 100% fair.
I looked all over the forum and can show a million similar reviews for other networks where people had even less to stand on but nothing happened. They even deleted what CPAGrip said.
Thats telling.

feel free to hit me up Peter and thanks

 

[Roja89]

multiple people is everyone? I see one person in this thread alone who says he converts every 13-18 landings. Im sure he/she counts. Im not gonna argue with you, nor do I really care in the end. Ive never used CPAGRIP. From what I see, is a bunch of newbies expecting there traffic to convert instantly on a few hundred clicks. Oh well, seriously good luck on ur sales.

Theres actually an entire thread with a lot of senior users from that network CPAGrip. Thats not everyone. But its a good amount when combined with what I saw.

Not the point of the thread. thanks though man.

You really can't know though, depending on the quality of the traffic being sent and the complexity of the offer it can take a few hundred visits to get a lead - and that's on average when you are sending thousands you may go more than that from time to time. At the same time if you are running really good traffic, like ppc with a refined and good campaign, you could be converting at every 10 clicks. It's going to depend on the quality of your traffic.

The only way to really verify if the network is shaving is if your conversions drop off with the same traffic, over a much larger traffic/sample size. Or if your comparing to the same or a very similar, in terms of complexity to complete and appeal, offer on a different network. And even then you're not going to be able to tell anything with 125 visitors so I still have to say your post was probably remove because it's unfounded with the info you provided.

Well the difference WowHaxor is that on other incentive networks which I have a lot more experience with. I have converted quite a bit with that amount of traffic.
I also compared their offer payouts to other incentive networks that Ive used.

So its rather founded both in a fair, if not large, sample pool and a direct comparison to other networks in the same business. I made note that I had converted on other networks in the thread as well. How much further can I go? Screenshots, explanations, seeing what I see in chat amongst their user earnings, seeing it in threads, having other networks to compare to. LMFAO it wasn't some official super review thread. So the idea that it was ok to blast me and burn the thread is garbage, no offense. Im also pointing out that the standard on that forum is not to do anything neeearrr what I did.

The issue is that when there is a big huge forum thats been around a few years and theres one clear standard for all the dozens or hundreds of networks then another standard for 1 individual network. Thats a problem. CPAElite has a special standard for CPAGrip and only CPAGrip. I actually went way above and beyond what everyone else leaves in their 'reviews'. but mine was shut down.

Id love for you to defend that. Its actually becoming strange that youre digging this deep man. Im not being unreasonable or crazy. Theres thousands of reviews and 1 standard in place. I leave a review of higher quality meeting higher standards for CPAGrip but it isnt positive and all of a sudden everything goes nuts? Sure. Ok. Please tell me how that makes sense to you.

Night

 

[wowhaxor]

I'm not saying it was ok for him to talk to you like that or smart, cause look now you tell people here, but whether you believe me or not you cannot make any inferences about that offer, or especially the network at whole, based on that traffic size. Even if you've converted in the past with the exact same traffic and offer you'd still need a lot more traffic not converting before you know there's an issue because you could easily end up with a few hundred people that aren't interested from time to time. I'm sorry and again not saying it's right for them to be rude to you but you don't have proof of anything and I see why they would remove your accusation it can be damaging to a business and it's not a valid accusation.

 

[Roja89]

Youre missing the point entirely.

What is a review? Its a person sharing their view and experience. Thats exactly what I did.

How do you share a review on a forum? You do it based on the standards and procedures of the forum. I actually went above and beyond the standards of the forum.

To say a review has no merit because it can be damaging is ill thought out. That's life. So long as the review is legitimate, fair and honest where the person provides support then yes, sometimes it wont go your way. Can it be debated that a larger sample would be better? Sure. Can it be debated that my sample pool was just fine for CPA? Certainly. Thats why its a personal review. Results my vary. There's no need to go in circles here but what you're saying is false and misleading. You're suggesting that I left a review that was without merit and deserving of moderation yet you're ignoring the standards of the forum. I did exactly what was required for a reivew.

The only thing different was my review was not positive to CPAGrip and pointed out what I felt were some CR issues and that echo'd the sentiments of many others.

Please focus in on this next part so as not to mix issues:

In looking at coutnless other threads, this was allowed for other networks. So does that mean that they deserved to be "damaged"? What's concerning and the reason for my thread here is that everyone else can be damaged by meritless reviews without screenshots with fewer clicks. Yet a review of far greater quality, more clicks, support and more was immediately taken down. Only 1 thread gets moderated? Only negatives to 1 network? Thus I believe there is corruption.

Imagine of blackhatworld would let you say anything about anyone then suddenly if you spoke about network A they shut you down. That, my friend, is CORRUPT and thats the purpose of this thread. CPAGrip has corrupt help from CPAElites. Go explore their forum, it will take 5 minutes. Look at other threads and find the endless poor reviews which as you said are "damaging" yet somehow OK when its not CPAgrip, extreme cases aside.

CPAGripJohn works with Hawk Eye and gets special treatment. Bad reviews on CPAGrip get deleted. Its plain. That was my complaint. We can talk about bad CR on GPAGrip or anywhere else all day long and debate the numbers. But perhaps a different thread as its completely aside the point.