Little help with SEO needed, please!

[Grey Hat Joe]

Hello my BHW fellows, hope some of you could help me with few advices/pointers

My website got hit by Penguin update back in September/October 2013 due to(I guess, but it is an easy guess) over spammy links/over optimised anchor text etc.
We have managed to clear majority of the links(around 4000) over the period of 9 months, the rest was disavowed(around 300 or so links). I have also delinked all the internal links(well, 99% of them, just to be sure there are no issues whatsoever), modified all anchor texts, as well as toned-down all of titles, meta descriptions etc. ie made them non-keyword spammy.
Following that, some time in October last year our website reappeared in Google results. Just to mention a very important point - it was an algorithmic penalty - no messages of manual penalty.
Following the lifting of the penalty our keywords were hovering at somewhere around 6-7-8 page with slight dancing..
I was trying to make up my mind as to how to continue with my SEO and kinda decided to try going only white hat, ie. not to engage in black hat practices unless there is no other way. I was a bit indecisive and before I have had the chance to do anything about SEO, at the beginning of May this year few of my major keywords just tumbled again - this time it happened gradually over the period of few weeks and now those keywords are around 230-250 position and some are not even showing in Serpfox tool I use, meaning they are not even in the first 250 results..
I have read in one of the forums that the latest update has something to do with content quality and that it penalises the websites with thin content. I am very puzzled because my website is not at all thin on content, especially not when is compared with other websites from the same industry.
Another thing that is mentioned along thin content is duplicate content, and as far as I know, I don't have any duplicate content at all. I might be wrong but this is to the best of my knowledge..
Having all the bad links removed and disavowed, I am practically left with only a few links which bring any juice and as such I didn't expect to be on the first page anyway, but 25[SUP]th[/SUP] page - that is simply ridiculous, especially given the fact that there are sooo many crappy websites ranking in front of me, unrelated websites, websites with really thin content etc. - it beggars belief!
Another point to make is that few keywords related to my URL are ranking in the top five so my home page hasn't been punished(or so I like to think), but those keywords are not really all that profitable - they don't bring much traffic.. The keywords for which I would really like to rank have practically been shot on to the 20-odd page of Google results and I am truly puzzled as to why???

At the moment I am scratching my head and I am at the end of my tether as to what to do, could you fellow BH-errs offer some advice/words of wisdom please, SEO is not my strong point especially since I have been out of it for a while and things have changed greatly.. :dunno:

Hope I didn't forget to mention anything that could be important... Any suggestions are very welcome and many thanks in advance for your time!!

ps. Forgot to mention that the previous spammy link building was outsourced ie. it wasn't done by myself - I am not that good with SEO, that's the reason why my website is where it is

 

[ThopHayt]

Are you de-indexed?

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

Thank you for the reply ThopHayt, it is very much appreciated!!

No, not at all atm, website might have been de-indexed when it got hit by algo penalty but don't quote me on that, I really can't remember - it either got de-indexed or my pages were nowhere.... All the same, I couldn't find them, if my memory serves me right..

At the moment, few of the keywords which are closely related to my url are pretty high in ranking -no.2-3-4 etc. but the keywords I really want to rank for have dropped significantly since 1st May this year.. As I mentioned in my previous post, for a few months after the penalty finished(from October 14 until May 15) those keywords were dancing between position 60 and 80-90 on Google UK... During that period(and before that too) have done absolutely nothing in terms of link building or website enhancing in any shape or form... Actually, that is not totally correct - I have registered my website on around 30-40 directories(good ones) for the NAT's sake, and I am now also on Google local(position 2 or 3) for a few of my keywords, but only those that are contained in my URL... Importantly, the last directory I registered on was at the end of March(or so) so that shouldn't be a factor in my decline...

I wasn't worried and thought that position 60-70-80 was quite good since I have deleted almost all of the external links and was running on practically no external link juice at all.. Actually I was very happy to see those important keywords on 6th-7th or 8th page of Google considering there was nothing but a very little on-page SEO backing them up... Again, just to mention, I have de-linked most of my internal linking when the penalty kicked im - just to be on the safe side and make sure those internal links were not playing any part in the penalty.... Ever since then, I haven't done any internal linking and website being as such, I thought being on page 6-7 was fantastic, considering how little SEO there was on the site.... Now, whilst I was contemplating how to continue and what actions to implement in my newly found penalty free world, disaster struck again and progressively(during May this year) important keywords got thrown onto the page 25 and beyond..

My home page is PR3(for what is worth) by the way... Also, at least 40 internal pages have PR2 or PR1(again, if that is any factor at all these days).. There is plenty of content on the website(especially compared to some of my competitors) and yet, it doesn't rank very well for what I want it to rank...

Again, I don't think there is any duplicate content(not to my limited knowledge, at least) so I am totally puzzled as to what hit me and why... I feel like a total novice and losing confidence in my site by the minute..

Any input will be greatly appreciated since I don't even know where to start right now....

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

Any thoughts, someone?

 

[gwentseo]

De-indexed may be and now in the index?

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

Well, I did mention that I was hit by an algo penalty, not a manual one ie. there were no messages whatsoever in WMT..

At that time, all my keywords disappeared from the rankings, or at least disappeared from the first 25 pages on Google(I never tried looking further than that), this is why I said I am not 100% sure whether it got de-indexed. Just to add, the industry I am in and the keywords I was promoting, competition is not that great(it is fairly easy to get to page 1) so when you can't find your pages in the first 250 results you know it is something serious.
To be honest, I wouldn't know how to define "de-indexed" ie. how do you know when your website has been de-indexed?? As I mentioned already, I am not that proficient in all things SEO and knowing my limitations I always leave the "benefit of the doubt" when explaining things. Granted, with my little SEO knowledge, there is a danger of not explaining stuff very clearly and even confusing others, unless they are aware of my limitations

cheers

 

[Jobdollarr]

It's like not de index. But the name of your domain the same everywhere.

google domain condense your cause in some sub link.
Dublikat domain with many index, will be put in google the sand.

It was only in my assumption.


How to add the index, if your website is your main website, build backlinks to 900 words and unique content. It will help the traffic to your web site

 

[nikchaing]

Is getting another domain name an option for you? If you aren't dead-set on using your current domain name, then I'd drop it like it's hot. De-index the old site so that you can potentially reuse your content on the next domain.

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

It's like not de index. But the name of your domain the same everywhere.

google domain condense your cause in some sub link.
Dublikat domain with many index, will be put in google the sand.

It was only in my assumption.


How to add the index, if your website is your main website, build backlinks to 900 words and unique content. It will help the traffic to your web site

Sorry mate but I don't really understand what you are trying to say, can you please explain it in a slightly different way?

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

Is getting another domain name an option for you? If you aren't dead-set on using your current domain name, then I'd drop it like it's hot. De-index the old site so that you can potentially reuse your content on the next domain.

Thanks Nick, do you care to elaborate why I should drop my domain and get another one?
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying, my domain is not de-indexed at the moment. It was de-indexed for about a year, (until 6 months ago) due to an algo penalty, but the penalty is not there anymore/has been lifted!

At the moment, I am ranking for quite a few keywords, albeit, not for the ones I would love to rank. In May this year, about 3-4 keywords that I would like to rank for have lost ranking very badly(from position 60-70 to 200+... The worst thing is, I don't really know why, I haven't done anything to cause that ie. haven't build any bad links etc.. That's why I am puzzled....

By the way, what is the best way to de-index your content/website so that you can re-use it on some other website/domain?
It would be useful to know that, in case I need to do it any time in the future.

many thanks!

 

[nikchaing]

Just because the penalty has been lifted doesn't mean that it should rank well again. You basically have some baggage you gotta live with for a while. You will be able to rank again at some point, but it would be faster to work on another domain.

Since you have your site on WMT I think you can remove the pages from index from there.

https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/1663419?hl=en

 

[Jack Torrance]

So you are ranking and getting traffic on some pages... What I would do is change the URL on the pages which are tanked. For example if it's currently "yoursite.com/crunchy-cereal" I would change the URL to "yoursite.com/crunchiest-cereal" you get the idea... This will wipe any issues related to links pointing to that page, it's like they don't exist anymore and will no longer affect your site.

If it's a content issue (no idea what the "quality update" involved to be honest), you will need to write new content, it's hard to tell why it would be penalized if you are sure it's high quality. Perhaps over-optimization? Ads above the fold? Using tag clouds and stuff like that which creates dupes?

If your domain is tarnished by Google then don't remove all of your content. Keep the content which is ranking well and set up a second website. That way you will keep the cash you are getting from your wrecked site. Once you build up the new one you will have the cash the old site is making plus whatever the new domain makes. It's possible for your old and new site to compete for the same keywords... It's like owning all the squares on Monopoly.

Feel free to send me the page you are trying to rank and I will look. I have a Majestic subscription so I will be able to check for spammy links too.

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

Just because the penalty has been lifted doesn't mean that it should rank well again. You basically have some baggage you gotta live with for a while. You will be able to rank again at some point, but it would be faster to work on another domain.

Since you have your site on WMT I think you can remove the pages from index from there.

""""had to delete the link - it triggered some spam filter on BHW""""

Thanks Nick, I get your point, but it doesn't tie in with what's been happening...

First, the penalty was algorithmic, and I cleaned all of the links(85% deleted and 15% disavowed).. Few weeks after submitting he disavow file my main keywords were back in town. Granted, they were at silly positions like 7th or 8th page but I was happy no end. I knew they couldn't rank any higher than that simply because they didn't have any links supplying the "juice" any longer.. They were ranked on those positions(7th, 8th,9th page of Google) purely on the strength of what little "on page" SEO there was left on my website - I had wiped off just about everything "naughty" when I got penalised, to eliminate the "over-optimisation" factor and narrow down the reasons for the penalty...

So.. my home page main keywords were ranking on 70th, 80th or 90th position and that was cool. All under control, I thought it was fair play to Google.. They were "dancing" in those positions for about 4-5 months(From November 2014 until May 2015) without major fluctuations - few positions up or down, but no big deal. All fine and dandy, or so I thought. During those few months I was hesitant as to how to continue - be "naughty" again or play it straight.

It must be said, during that time of idle, I didn't do a thing regarding SEO other than registering my website/NAT on about 30 or so well respected directories, for my Google places' sake. I have finished with directories by roughly end of March this year. That helped a little with rankings but nothing major. Added bonus was that my website started to feature on Google places for those keywords that are contained in my URL(not the keywords that I was promoting though, they were still standing on 7-8-9th page).. So, no bad links to crash the rankings again.. Then a month later, in May this year, those keywords that were idling for months on 7-8-9th page all of a sudden started diving and in the space of a month they were on positions 200+.. This is why I am puzzled, I haven't built any links that could have brought this upon the website's ranking, my content is pretty good(even excellent compared to my competition) so what might that be - "That is the question"

The only thing I am not sure about it this "duplicate content" - I am not very good with SEO and its tools and wouldn't know how to check for it - other than going page by page, but even doing that, nothing looked like "duplicate" to me ?? I might be wrong though, but simply don't know how to check for it and be 100% sure

Btw, my main keywords are all related/coming from the home page ie. my home page is supposed to(and was in the past) be ranked for them. I wasn't talking about different pages, only my home page's keywords..

Many thanks

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

Thanks very much for your input Jack!

The trouble is, those keywords that are tanked are related/generated by my home page, so changing url is not an option They used to be in top 5 results before the algo penalty.. Granted, they were supported by 1000's of spammy links, none of which are there any longer.. Again, being on page 8 is bad enough, but being on page 20 is a disaster - my industry is not that competitive and there is not much quality around, anything you find past page 10 is very, very low quality(page 20+ is almost non-industry related), which is why I was puzzled, my homepage definitely doesn't belong there, links or no links..

To be honest, I don't even know what is "Ads above the fold", "tag clouds" or "dupes".. That is all new to me but I am fairly sure I don't have any of that.. or shouldn't have, shall I say

My inner pages(and less profitable keywords) are ranking ok all considered - my home page, although PR3 doesn't have the juice it once had to push them where they once were.. Quite a few of them rank on 10-15 position which gives me hope(before they were in top 5 too)

Perhaps I need few good links which will kick start it all, difficult to tell without doing it first

Btw, what features does Majestic do/have, ie. what sort of website overview are you able to achieve with it, only back links or something else too?

Cheers

 

[wtgabc]

I read others comments and almost all agree that you should get a new domain/URL. Here is what I suggest -

1 - If its your real business website with lots of brand value, you keep the domain and do a deep analysis on the current links, Get rid of any spam leftovers and start to build real good quality links at very small scale. Since you already spend 9 months, few more wont hurt. Keep linking slow but steady and it should work since you said the penalty seems to be removed now.

2. If the domain does not have that great brand value, does not have any sentiments attached and is not printed everywhere in your business communications (offline) + You see potential if you actually rank - that would be worth the game I would believe.
So in that case , Deindex your entire site, buy a new domain , move the content over to this one. Put a non server side redirect from old domain to this one and start link building after few weeks. Slow and steady high quality links with social sharing. And the term high quality is relative and i will leave it to you to figure out

 

[Grey Hat Joe]

I read others comments and almost all agree that you should get a new domain/URL. Here is what I suggest -

1 - If its your real business website with lots of brand value, you keep the domain and do a deep analysis on the current links, Get rid of any spam leftovers and start to build real good quality links at very small scale. Since you already spend 9 months, few more wont hurt. Keep linking slow but steady and it should work since you said the penalty seems to be removed now.

2. If the domain does not have that great brand value, does not have any sentiments attached and is not printed everywhere in your business communications (offline) + You see potential if you actually rank - that would be worth the game I would believe.
So in that case , Deindex your entire site, buy a new domain , move the content over to this one. Put a non server side redirect from old domain to this one and start link building after few weeks. Slow and steady high quality links with social sharing. And the term high quality is relative and i will leave it to you to figure out

Thanks very much for your input wtgabc, the first option will have to be - there is the brand value plus sentiments involved so I will deffo keep the domain(there is no reason not to) and try building "quality" links.

Couple of questions for you, the answer would be very much appreciated(it went way over my head):

1) What is a "non-server side redirect" and how does it work
2) What do you mean by social sharing? ok, I gather it is something to do with Twitter, Facebook etc. but what do you mean "sharing" ie. sharing what - my content or something entirely different? I am not very much into this whole social thing... I know it benefits SEO but I don't exactly know how to go about it..

Many thanks!