Building Resilient Money Sites

I don't think Google gives much purpose to social signals. The reason being is that they can't control them. What if one day Facebook decides to block google bot from crawling and makes that ranking signal obsoleet? Google will not risk the health of its own algorithm by making it rely on something that is completely out of their control, like social signals. I just can't see them as a ranking factor at all and my experience has showed that they really don't help seo.

Uhm, go to google.com. There? Cool. Type in site:facebook.com ... done? Good. So there's like, 5.5 billion pages indexed.
Do the same for twitter. 1.75 billion pages indexed.

So, they already have the data. You're guessing they're not going to use this data they already have, because someday they might get shut off from loading them? Cool story bro.

Those google engineers are pretty clever, but I agree with you -- they're simply unable to just stop using a metric if they happen to get shut off from it, Google would crash and they'd lose billions in revenue, so yeah its a good idea they don't do that. Glad you clued me in. I'll keep doing it though, just because I'm crazy.
 
Wonderful to see you posting again phpbuilt. I love how you go step by step on your methods. Will keep following.
 
Hi phpbuilt

Awesome share. Some questions about your setup.


  1. Do you use the same persona or pen name for T1 blogs as your main blog?
  2. What about T2 and T3? I assume anything below T1 will have different personas/pen names.
  3. my social accounts are posting to my tier1 100% of the time
    What are your social accounts? Twitter and FB page only? What kind of software do you use to post from your social accounts to your tier 1 or do you do it manually? Do you use WP plugin to submit your main blog posts to your social accounts?
  4. In two occassions, you mentioned that your primary twitter account (which gets usually 40+ natural retweets) links to your main blog post and tier1 blogs. Are you refering to tweets with links to them?
  5. You install disqus on tier1. How many web 2.0 actually use disqus? You have about 25 free blogs as your tier 1. Do you use the same free blogs a few times in tier 1? Do you engage when someone leaves a comment on your free blogs?
  6. I'll quickly take a paragraph or two from their article and spin it ... about 1/5th of my tier 1...
    You take a portion of other people's article and spin it. How deep do you spin since you are posting it to all your tiers? You mentioned about "blockquoting a portion of the blog its linking to". I assume you use different portions from the one you spin, right?
  7. From tier 1 to tier 3, you use free blogs. I can see that you have about 2600+ blogs in 3 tiers. Do you create the same blog (eg wordpress) several times for the all the tiers?
 
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  1. Do you use the same persona or pen name for T1 blogs as your main blog?

Nope, only one main persona. I have 20 sub-personas, but they're not tied to a specific tier1 ... they'll link to one of my tier1's at random, which right now is around 200ish blogs. The blogs have fake personas as well, but they don't correlate to the social accounts.



  1. What are your social accounts? Twitter and FB page only? What kind of software do you use to post from your social accounts to your tier 1 or do you do it manually? Do you use WP plugin to submit your main blog posts to your social accounts?
Twitter, FB and Disqus. Software is all my own custom php scripts, with Twitter I work with the API, with facebook I just have PHP acting like a regular user ... don't think facebook has an API but I'll be getting more into that soon (I started with twitter). Disqus I do manually, not a big deal to respond to people who are commenting on my blog.

  1. In two occassions, you mentioned that your primary twitter account (which gets usually 40+ natural retweets) links to your main blog post and tier1 blogs. Are you refering to tweets with links to them?

Yep. All of my tweets have an outgoing link. Sometimes I'm linking to RT, or some other credible newspaper (with my main). I'd say out of 10 tweets, 2 will be to my main site, 3 will be to tier1 blogs, and 5 will be to credible newspapers.

My 20 lower-level accounts are nearly the same, out of 10 tweets 2 will be re-tweeting my main account, 3 will be linking to my tier1 and 5 will be to credible newspapers.

My tier2 and tier3 don't have social interaction yet. Working towards that.

  1. You install disqus on tier1. How many web 2.0 actually use disqus? You have about 25 free blogs as your tier 1. Do you use the same free blogs a few times in tier 1? Do you engage when someone leaves a comment on your free blogs?

The tier1s have disqus if its installable (some I haven't figured out how to do it yet) ... I've got 20 fake personas that each have twitter, facebook and disqus ... but disqus is manual and facebook is only automated on my main ... only twitter so far is automated on the 20. Eventually facebook will be too. The 20 disqus comment on the T1s because the T1s don't really get enough traffic to start up huge discussion threads on them naturally.



  1. You take a portion of other people's article and spin it. How deep do you spin since you are posting it to all your tiers? You mentioned about "blockquoting a portion of the blog its linking to". I assume you use different portions from the one you spin, right?

I'm linking to an article that may be 10 to 20 paragraphs, probably 500 to 1000 words or more. My spin software will grab the paragraphs and spin it, then grab a random 2 to 4 paragraphs for each blog posting, but it will also blockquote a section exactly. The goal isn't to make the spin look like an article in-and-of itself, instead I'm trying to make it look like I'm discussing someone else's post ... sort of a lead in and then linking to their blog. I think that's an extremely natural thing for a blog to do ... in fact, when I write naturally in this niche, I'm taking current news and commenting on it, blockquoting and linking to others. The spin probably averages around 200 words, then the blockquoting pushes it to 250 to 300.

In total, the spin will go to around 20 tier-1, 60 tier-2, and 180 tier-3, so maybe a total of 260 posts on average. Its a simple 1-level spin (spun on word-level), yet because each article takes random portions from the main article, I believe the uniqueness is good enough (tier1 might grab a spun paragraph 2 and 4, tier2 grabs 3, 4 and 6, tier3 grabs 1 and 6, etc.) After a few months of using this technique and expanding on it, my impression is that it works good.

Having any particular spin only go to 20% of the entire network, however, is a key to it ... because I can guarantee you that if I only had 20 tier1, 60 tier2 and 180 tier3 blogs total, eventually that footprint would get me busted (blogs having exact same outgoing link portfolios).





  1. From tier 1 to tier 3, you use free blogs. I can see that you have about 2600+ blogs in 3 tiers. Do you create the same blog (eg wordpress) several times for the all the tiers?

I've got 50 web2.0s that I consider to be excellent (will elaborate on that in the future). My tier1 of 200 consists of 4 blogs of each type pointing to main site. However, while 15 to 25% of these blogs are randomly chosen to host a spin to a particular article, its never from the same platform (today's random blog might be blog1.wordpress.com, tomorrows might be blog4.wordpress.com) ... and that's how it is spread over angelfire, blogger, etc.

Beyond that, there's no overlaps. Tier2 is 600 blogs that only link to different platforms (wordpress never links to wordpress), same with the 1800 tier3. With 50 web2.0s, each can outlink to 49 other platforms and never need to link to others on the same platform.
 
I don't think Google gives much purpose to social signals. The reason being is that they can't control them. What if one day Facebook decides to block google bot from crawling and makes that ranking signal obsoleet? Google will not risk the health of its own algorithm by making it rely on something that is completely out of their control, like social signals. I just can't see them as a ranking factor at all and my experience has showed that they really don't help seo.


I have to agree with this, i don't know if the reason is that Google can't control the social signals but they are to easy to manipulate, i have done dozens of test with social signals and i haven't seen one site rank better with them, social signals are not a big part of the algo i am sure of that, my data that i have from my tests just simply said so.

I use social media only as a traffic source, branding a name and as (and this is a gut feeling not a proven fact) accountability for my links, if you have a 1000 incoming links and no presence on any social media that could be a red flag, but like i sad this is more a gut feeling then anything else as i have found no proof if this, the sites that have used in kmy test are still going strong with lots of links and no social signals.

But that can change in a day, you never know with google.
 
@fc-dh, were your socials faked and bought, or were they from real accounts?

Also, you just said you agreed with a guy that says socials mean nothing, next you said you socials may be proof to Google so you don't receive a red flag ... sort of contradictory don't you think?

This business about Google might not always have access to it, or that socials can be faked, doesn't have much credibility. You'd think that two billion-dollar operations in the same niche could figure out behind-the-scenes whether one is going to block the other or not. And links can be faked, the majority of this forum and the multi-billion dollar SEO industry is centered around faking links ... hasn't stopped Google from using links has it?
 
Definitely an interesting read, and I like the niche examples you provided. You certainly put some thought into developing this strategy, and it appears to have paid dividends. Thanks for sharing this illuminating post.
 
Hi phpbuilt

Thanks a lot for answering my question. I hope you don;t mind if I have more questions.

You say that your social accounts are posting to your tier1 100% of the time. I don;t understand what do you mean. You write an article for your main blog and then you create a spin and post it to all your tiers (15-20% will receive the spin). So how do your social accounts like twitter, facebook and disqus post articles to tier 1?

I have 20 sub-personas, but they're not tied to a specific tier1 ... they'll link to one of my tier1's at random, which right now is around 200ish blogs. The blogs have fake personas as well, but they don't correlate to the social accounts.
I've got 20 fake personas that each have twitter, facebook and disqus

Each of 20 sub-personas will have several blogs in tier 1. Am I right?

The 20 sub personas on tier 1 blogs are totally different from 20 fake personas of twitter, facebook and disqus, right?

How do you manage to post the spin to all the tiers that randomly choose 15 to 25% of the blogs? Custom software?
With 50 web2.0s, each can outlink to 49 other platforms and never need to link to others on the same platform.
I have not seen any software that does what you say.
 
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Have you thought about hosting your blogs in subfolders instead of subdomains?

example:
www.site.com/hidden_category/yourblog
instead of:
yourblog.site.com

Maybe in a future update the subdomains will not get any juice from the main domain at all.
 
Have you thought about hosting your blogs in subfolders instead of subdomains?

example:
http://www.site.com/hidden_category/yourblog
instead of:
yourblog.site.com

Maybe in a future update the subdomains will not get any juice from the main domain at all.

That's exactly what he said he does and no, subdomains are already sans link juice.
 
Hi phpbuilt

Thanks a lot for answering my question. I hope you don;t mind if I have more questions.

You say that your social accounts are posting to your tier1 100% of the time. I don;t understand what do you mean. You write an article for your main blog and then you create a spin and post it to all your tiers (15-20% will receive the spin). So how do your social accounts like twitter, facebook and disqus post articles to tier 1?

Four things are going on here ... my blogs and my social accounts, and promotions to the content that everyone is interested in, and promotions to my inner pages, so yeah I can see how it can be confusing. I'll try to clear that up.

My social accounts only promote the content everyone is interested in, and never the stuff I'm promoting.

My main social account promote's other people's stuff 100% of the time, 50% of which are direct links to CNN or BBC or RT or other credible news sources ... 50% are pointing to my blog where I did a write-up which then links to other people's stuff, so 100% of it is promoting other people's stuff. This makes the website popular, gains it natural backlinks, and the social profile would be more trusted by Google.

Let me stop here and talk about social links that people are saying in this thread that are worthless. Those people would probably agree that link trade scripts are worthless, that comment spam is worthless or harmful, that (when it comes to websites) there are links out there that are not beneficial ... and yet with a single swoop they discount ALL social media links, as though getting a twitter link from CNN isn't going to do something for your SEO. Followerwonk analyzes twitter accounts and assigns them authority scores ... are we to believe that Google as a company worth some 370 billion dollars isn't capable of outdoing Moz? Maybe your social media links are worthless because the social media accounts you got them from are worthless? Why would Google turn down the ability to assign authority scores to social media accounts, and provide an escalating level of benefit (or penalty) based on that account's authority? Sure, social media is easy to spam ... but so are link types, and Google can figure out the difference.

Ok back to my social accounts ... main account links to other people's stuff 100% of the time, directly to CNN/BBC/RT etc 50%, to my main money site 20%, and to tier1's 30%.

Now we're still talking socials, but the lower 20 accounts. They link directly to CNN/BBC/RT etc. 50% of the time. 20% of the time they're retweeting my main account. 30% of the time, they're linking to tier1 accounts, so they're functioning almost exactly the same as my main twitter account.

When I said my 20 link to my tier1 100% of the time, what I meant is every post on my tier1 will get a link from my 20 socials 100% of the time (I see how that can be confusing) ... but they still directly link out to authority sites simply to diversify outgoing links, because I believe that linking to credible websites boosts the authority of the social accounts.

My socials are never promoting money stuff. Now talking about my money site and blogs (forget about socials now).

On my money site, it's all about beefing up the root domain's authority, and brand. I want people searching for my brand. In fact, sometimes when I tweet, my link will be to a Google query search containing my brand + topic, so the thing I want to link to will be ranking #1 in Google. For instance, if I'm writing about how the patriot act just expired, my tweet would be like this "The patriot act just expired, NSA has til midnight to stop snooping on you! [link] ... where the link is to Google, and the query is {brand} patriot act expired. This forces them to search Google for you, and they click through to your result, and this shows Google that people actually search for your brand (making your site's brand more popular in Google's eyes). I do this for every article I write ... so during the day, my account will tweet once as a direct link to the site, later on it'll tweet again trying to pass people through Google.

Lastly, my tier1 blogs. These will link to other people's stuff 90% of the time (credible news sources), it'll also link to my main site around 10% ... but one out of every 3 blog posts will have a link to main site (a blog post might have 3 outgoing links per post, and 1 out of 3 posts links to money site, so around 90%/10%). Tier 2 blogs have a link to tier1 100% of the time every blog post, with a couple links to other credible sources.

Each of 20 sub-personas will have several blogs in tier 1. Am I right?

The 20 sub personas on tier 1 blogs are totally different from 20 fake personas of twitter, facebook and disqus, right?

Tier1 personas and social personas are not matched up. Over time, every one of the 20 twitter accounts will have linked to every one of the tier1. The 20 socials and 20 disqus (and 20 facebook) all match up though.

How do you manage to post the spin to all the tiers that randomly choose 15 to 25% of the blogs? Custom software? I have not seen any software that does what you say.

It's all custom, I use PHP for 95% of what I do ... if can be done in PHP that's where I do it. In a few cases where I haven't been able to do it in PHP, I'll use PHP to control an imacros browser only so long enough to get past the thing I couldn't do in PHP, then I return full control to PHP again (like if Javascript/ajax is assembling difficult post vars that I can't duplicate, I'll run imacros only so long enough to read the data and extract the post vars, then close it and use PHP for the posting).

EDIT: and oh yeah, my tier1 will post to my money pages occasionally too ... but usually if I'm not promoting that particular post via socials.
 
Hi phpbuilt

Gees! That's a detailed answer. It is a lot clearer now.

Thanks mate.
 
I don't think Google gives much purpose to social signals. The reason being is that they can't control them. What if one day Facebook decides to block google bot from crawling and makes that ranking signal obsoleet? Google will not risk the health of its own algorithm by making it rely on something that is completely out of their control, like social signals. I just can't see them as a ranking factor at all and my experience has showed that they really don't help seo.

My experience with social signals has been kind of similar. I rather use contextual, branded links on high-DA, high authority sites to give my site enough 'credibility' for it to be 'considered worthy' of having all those targeted PBN / Grey Hat links and finally ranked. The high DA links alone won't rank the site, nor will the PBN links alone. You need a bit of both.

I used to test this on popular sites where I guest blogged in the past (pure white hat stuff for serious sites). I tested by building a few mediocre PBN links (from BHW) to posts that didn't have much social shares on DA70-90 sites. All of them jumped on the first page and straight into #1. So, this sort of proves my point.
 
My experience with social signals has been kind of similar. I rather use contextual, branded links on high-DA, high authority sites to give my site enough 'credibility' for it to be 'considered worthy' of having all those targeted PBN / Grey Hat links and finally ranked. The high DA links alone won't rank the site, nor will the PBN links alone. You need a bit of both.

Again I ask, what kind of socials? Credible, legitimate, non-spammy socials coming from real accounts, or retweets from a retweet seller with questionable outgoing link practices?

I used to test this on popular sites where I guest blogged in the past (pure white hat stuff for serious sites). I tested by building a few mediocre PBN links (from BHW) to posts that didn't have much social shares on DA70-90 sites. All of them jumped on the first page and straight into #1. So, this sort of proves my point.

You proved that a DA70 to DA90 site can rank without many socials, therefore socials are unimportant? Well, you keep on going without socials then and good luck.
 
Again I ask, what kind of socials? Credible, legitimate, non-spammy socials coming from real accounts, or retweets from a retweet seller with questionable outgoing link practices?
I've tried everything ranging from Fiverr, to Costly oDesk guys, to bribing legit people with high followers, to naturally reaching out to people and getting social shares.


You proved that a DA70 to DA90 site can rank without many socials, therefore socials are unimportant? Well, you keep on going without socials then and good luck.

No, my point was more like, socials don't affect rankings directly when you already have enough legit, HQ, branded and other relevant links. So, I prefer to replicate some of those easy-to-replicate links instead for new sites instead of going after social signals.
 
3 questions:

1. Why do you build a completely new site in the subdirectory for your niche vs following the same theme as the news site?

2. How many niches are you comfortable loading up in various subdirectories? ( ie. /skiing /sextoys /gadgets... etc)

3. I assume that in the niche directories, you're still writing review articles etc - vs building a store without articles? I ask this because I always assumed that review articles were mainly to get longtail links and pick up rankings for buyer keywords, but if your news site is ranking the niche stuff for you is it still necessary?
 
I'm replicating your Twitter program in Python, what's the situation with IP addresses and API access for your 20 accounts, are you having to rotate or don't they care? Plus if you have any pointers, your input would be much appreciated PM'd or here.
 
This is a great implementation of domain authority hacking.

If you apply this concept enough, eventually you can rank for anything (e.g. wikipedia, amazon, etc showing up on SERPs all over the place).
 
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