Uptownbulker
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- Oct 21, 2007
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Yeah, don't get me wrong here; I'm only telling it like it is....reality and sometimes reality sucks.
F*ck Gas Prices!
- Thread starter coreygeer
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Smitty
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- Jan 31, 2008
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Touche! By the way, where is that avatar from. Meaning what movie? I've always tried to figure it out haha.
Uptownbulker
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- Oct 21, 2007
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For those of you with open minds, who want to learn and are willing to toss your Che T-shirts, here is a nice little article about who gets what from gas prices:
hXXp://money.cnn.com/2008/03/13/news/economy/gas_gallon/index.htm?cnn=yes
"Who gets rich off $3 gas - who doesn't
The guy running the service station makes just a few cents, while crude oil producers take the biggest chunk.
By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: March 13, 2008: 3:00 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Motorists may fume when forking over $3 a gallon at the local service station, but as it turns out, your local filling spot makes chump change from a gallon of gas.
So exactly who is getting rich?
Oil traders: Often blamed for pushing up prices, traders don't necessarily benefit from the high price of crude or gasoline, they profit from how much the price changes. Traders can get rich - as long as they bet correctly on whether prices will rise or fall.
An investment bank makes money when oil prices go from $95 to $100 a barrel if it bet the price will rise - or $100 to $95 if it bet the price will fall - not on the difference between production cost and trading price.
"If you wanna keep your job, you gotta be more right than wrong," said John Kilduff, an energy analyst at the trading firm MF Global in New York, explaining how traders make their money.
Gas stations: A surprisingly small amount goes to the guy who runs the station.
Most service stations are independently owned and operated and take in between 7 and 10 cents for every gallon they sell, according to the Energy Information Administration.
That 7 to 10 cents going to the gas station isn't even profit. Out of that, station owners still have to pay leases, workers, and other expenses - leaving them with a profit of just a few cents. For the service stations, most profit comes from selling coffee, cigarettes, food and other amenities.
These calculations are based off of EIA's most recent numbers, when gas was $3.04 a gallon. Gasoline hit another record nationwide average of $3.27 a gallon Thursday.
Taxes: The government takes about 40 cents right off the top, with about 18 cents going to the feds. State taxes vary widely, but the national average is about 22 cents a gallon. Most of this money is used to build and maintain roads.
Transportation: Getting the gas from refineries to service stations via trucks or pipelines - and the cost of storing it in large tanks - eats up another 23 to 26 cents per gallon.
Refining: About 24 cents a gallon goes to refining companies like Valero (VLO, Fortune 500), Sunoco (SUN, Fortune 500) or Frontier (FTO, Fortune 500) that specialize in turning crude oil into gas. Some companies like ExxonMobil (XOM, Fortune 500), Chevron (CVX, Fortune 500) and ConocoPhillips (COP, Fortune 500) produce and refine crude oil.
Profits for refiners have been squeezed lately because the price they pay for oil has risen so much faster than the price they can sell the gas for. This helps explain why Big Oil companies -like Exxon, which actually buys more crude oil than it produces - haven't seen their profits rise as much as the price of oil.
Crude oil: This is the most expensive part of a gallon of gas. $2.07 from every gallon of gas goes to producers of crude like Chevron (CVX, Fortune 500), BP (BP), and smaller outfits like Anadarko (APC, Fortune 500) and Marathon (MRO, Fortune 500), or national oil companies controlled by countries like Saudi Arabia, Mexico or Venezuela.
Crude currently trades around $110 a barrel, but breaking down the money in that barrel of oil is tough. Exploration and production costs, royalty payments - all a big part of $110 a barrel oil - vary widely country by country and project by project.
"It's difficult to generalize, there's a whole spectrum of costs," said Ron Planting, an economist with the American Petroleum Institute, an industry trade group.
They can range from $1 a barrel to produce crude in Saudi Arabia to over $70 a barrel to find, develop and pump oil in the deep water Gulf of Mexico or off the coast of Algeria, said Ann-Louise Hittle, an oil analyst with the energy consultants Wood Mackenzie.
EIA estimates it costs U.S. oil companies an average of about $24 a barrel to find, develop and produce oil worldwide, but that doesn't include costs like transportation, administration, or income taxes - which can be substantial. While Exxon made over $40 billion in 2007, a 60% increase from 2004, it paid over $100 billion in taxes and royalties.
Nonetheless, $40 billion - or any of the record profits seen by most oil companies over the last few years - is certainly a lot of money, and it has put Big Oil in lawmaker's cross hairs.
Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., has called the chief executives of the five biggest oil companies to testify on the industry's record profits on April 1st. Markey's office swears it's no April fool's joke.
First Published: March 13, 2008: 2:12 PM EDT
hXXp://money.cnn.com/2008/03/13/news/economy/gas_gallon/index.htm?cnn=yes
"Who gets rich off $3 gas - who doesn't
The guy running the service station makes just a few cents, while crude oil producers take the biggest chunk.
By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: March 13, 2008: 3:00 PM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Motorists may fume when forking over $3 a gallon at the local service station, but as it turns out, your local filling spot makes chump change from a gallon of gas.
So exactly who is getting rich?
Oil traders: Often blamed for pushing up prices, traders don't necessarily benefit from the high price of crude or gasoline, they profit from how much the price changes. Traders can get rich - as long as they bet correctly on whether prices will rise or fall.
An investment bank makes money when oil prices go from $95 to $100 a barrel if it bet the price will rise - or $100 to $95 if it bet the price will fall - not on the difference between production cost and trading price.
"If you wanna keep your job, you gotta be more right than wrong," said John Kilduff, an energy analyst at the trading firm MF Global in New York, explaining how traders make their money.
Gas stations: A surprisingly small amount goes to the guy who runs the station.
Most service stations are independently owned and operated and take in between 7 and 10 cents for every gallon they sell, according to the Energy Information Administration.
That 7 to 10 cents going to the gas station isn't even profit. Out of that, station owners still have to pay leases, workers, and other expenses - leaving them with a profit of just a few cents. For the service stations, most profit comes from selling coffee, cigarettes, food and other amenities.
These calculations are based off of EIA's most recent numbers, when gas was $3.04 a gallon. Gasoline hit another record nationwide average of $3.27 a gallon Thursday.
Taxes: The government takes about 40 cents right off the top, with about 18 cents going to the feds. State taxes vary widely, but the national average is about 22 cents a gallon. Most of this money is used to build and maintain roads.
Transportation: Getting the gas from refineries to service stations via trucks or pipelines - and the cost of storing it in large tanks - eats up another 23 to 26 cents per gallon.
Refining: About 24 cents a gallon goes to refining companies like Valero (VLO, Fortune 500), Sunoco (SUN, Fortune 500) or Frontier (FTO, Fortune 500) that specialize in turning crude oil into gas. Some companies like ExxonMobil (XOM, Fortune 500), Chevron (CVX, Fortune 500) and ConocoPhillips (COP, Fortune 500) produce and refine crude oil.
Profits for refiners have been squeezed lately because the price they pay for oil has risen so much faster than the price they can sell the gas for. This helps explain why Big Oil companies -like Exxon, which actually buys more crude oil than it produces - haven't seen their profits rise as much as the price of oil.
Crude oil: This is the most expensive part of a gallon of gas. $2.07 from every gallon of gas goes to producers of crude like Chevron (CVX, Fortune 500), BP (BP), and smaller outfits like Anadarko (APC, Fortune 500) and Marathon (MRO, Fortune 500), or national oil companies controlled by countries like Saudi Arabia, Mexico or Venezuela.
Crude currently trades around $110 a barrel, but breaking down the money in that barrel of oil is tough. Exploration and production costs, royalty payments - all a big part of $110 a barrel oil - vary widely country by country and project by project.
"It's difficult to generalize, there's a whole spectrum of costs," said Ron Planting, an economist with the American Petroleum Institute, an industry trade group.
They can range from $1 a barrel to produce crude in Saudi Arabia to over $70 a barrel to find, develop and pump oil in the deep water Gulf of Mexico or off the coast of Algeria, said Ann-Louise Hittle, an oil analyst with the energy consultants Wood Mackenzie.
EIA estimates it costs U.S. oil companies an average of about $24 a barrel to find, develop and produce oil worldwide, but that doesn't include costs like transportation, administration, or income taxes - which can be substantial. While Exxon made over $40 billion in 2007, a 60% increase from 2004, it paid over $100 billion in taxes and royalties.
Nonetheless, $40 billion - or any of the record profits seen by most oil companies over the last few years - is certainly a lot of money, and it has put Big Oil in lawmaker's cross hairs.
Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., has called the chief executives of the five biggest oil companies to testify on the industry's record profits on April 1st. Markey's office swears it's no April fool's joke.
First Published: March 13, 2008: 2:12 PM EDT
Essential Clix
Supreme Member
- Jul 30, 2007
- 1,407
- 3,165
It's De Niro in Taxi Driver (1976)
Smitty
BANNED
- Jan 31, 2008
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Haha, nice dude nice.
Hey, I think I agree with a lot of what is being said here, BUT does any of this put more gas in our tanks for less money? How about extending what we put in our tanks?
If you are interested, try putting about 3 oz of acetone per tank of gas. I have gotten up to about ten percent more and if you really want a wallop, try changing that worn out old o2 sensor. I got about 30% on one vehicle doing that. Since I do not own a lot of vehicles, I cannot give you data on a bunch of them. i did see a chart at AutoZone that showed the same savings.
Give it ago if you feel so inclined. Keep the Acetone off of the paint and do not put it in plastic.
You are welcome.
If you are interested, try putting about 3 oz of acetone per tank of gas. I have gotten up to about ten percent more and if you really want a wallop, try changing that worn out old o2 sensor. I got about 30% on one vehicle doing that. Since I do not own a lot of vehicles, I cannot give you data on a bunch of them. i did see a chart at AutoZone that showed the same savings.
Give it ago if you feel so inclined. Keep the Acetone off of the paint and do not put it in plastic.
You are welcome.
justmeron
Power Member
- Sep 16, 2007
- 652
- 412
I agree with what a lot of people here are saying. But onething to point out is the oil is used for more than just gas. Oil is used in many fabrics, plastic and so forth. I work in a hospital and a dr. was saying his brother owns some type of fabric plant in middle east and the oil prices have greatly affected the company, that oil is a essential ingrediant. So I kinda see why people want to blame Bush and I have BLamed him as well, cause he has power to affect groups and countries and his family owns oil wells and oil ships etc. But also look at all the other industries that depend on oil in their manufactureing, not just gas.
I kinda see both sides of the discussion and do not want to blame anyone person, as I am not big into polatics and such, but I do think it is politically driven. You know the good ole boy network. Donesn't the world as a whole operate like that, meaning people doing things to help each other out. Hence the good ole boy network.
I kinda see both sides of the discussion and do not want to blame anyone person, as I am not big into polatics and such, but I do think it is politically driven. You know the good ole boy network. Donesn't the world as a whole operate like that, meaning people doing things to help each other out. Hence the good ole boy network.
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There's a lot of great input in this thread but nobody seems to understand that this is not really about oil, gas, supply, demand, who has how much or any of that. It is about a President in many ways though...one who has further alienated the world towards the US and set this country into a downward spiral that was due to happen anyway...he just accelerated it.
Underneath it all, this is about DOLLARS. If you'll notice, the price of oil is directly tied to US DOLLARS. The value of dollars is, has and will continue to fall and that's where the President and his cronies come in.
The dollar's value against world currencies has eroded for a number of reasons recently. The cost of the war in Iraq may be part of it...although I bet that without this war the US economy would be in even worse shape at present.
That money that's being spent on the war is keeping a hell of a lot of people in the US employed right now that otherwise may not be and revenue flowing into predominately US companies in the military-industrial complex that otherwise may not be doing so well. Not to mention the fact there's more contractors involved in the war than there is military. And of course a great majority of those contractors are tied right back to the bottom line profits of guess who and his pals.
Since 2001, almost 45% of all jobs created in the US were directly associated with the housing booom. The administration, along with the Fed, created the incentives for lenders that caused the "mortgage crisis" we currently have. And we haven't begun to see the real meltdown it will result in.
Every one of those bogus mortgages was packaged up and sold to Wall St. and labeled as "attractive and secure" mortgage backed securities. Big smelly shitpiles is what they really are and they now sit in damn near every 401K and under funded pension plan in the country.
Not only that, but these were also sold heavily to foreign investors and financial institutions. People who can never get their money back...thus the recent money printing frenzy and personal guarantees offered by the Fed.
Most US citizens don't even realize the Fed isn't a government institution. If you like conspiracy theory and want to trace the real source of evil and greed in the US...do some reading about the origins of the Fed and observe where that fun little trail will lead you.
Compared to the market meltdown in '87 with junk bonds, the S&L crisis and bail out in '89 and the dot com boom and bust of the late 90's-2001 this crisis is many times worse. Nearly EVERYBODY has a house or mortgage (the highest percentage of homeowners ever) but with those other things not eveyone had tech stocks, investments related to S&Ls or junk bonds, etc. This is different and much more widespread.
The gap between rich and poor hasn't been greater in the US since just before the great Depression in 29. These oil and mortgage "crises" have been created by folks who want to see that gap widen even more. These created crisis are about a semi covert transfer of wealth...the largest such transfer in US history.
And here's an interesting tidbit to go along with that....
Did you know that the source of almost exactly 50% of all people's income in the US is the US government? Yep, either through social programs, military, government employment directly or through contractors paid by the government...it's true. There are some who believe that this has been a goal/aganda for a long time. What's the easiest way to control people? Control their access to money and the basic necessities it provides them.
Gas prices won't be coming down anytime soon, if ever. I just read that supply and reserves here are at several year high levels. This is about dollars and the fact OPEC is going to get it's cut regardless. The entire fiat money system worldwide is tied to dollars in one way or another.
When China or India go to buy oil from OPEC, they do it with a system that is based on dollars. China even lobbied hard to change this in recent years...to no avail. If dollars are worth shit, guess what...the dollar price goes up to compensate (or production goes down...however you want to look at it). OPEC is going to get their share regardless and it isn't ever likely that share will ever again be less than $52/barrel.
Traders and investors don't really determine these things...they only react to the circumstances and market conditions.
If you're living in the US, it's time to consider that the way things have been your whole life is about to change dramatically over the next 2-5 years. And who becomes the next President won't matter a bit. Talk to your grandparents and learn what you can about the depression era....there's something similar, and possibly worse, lining up to happen right now.
But also realize...some of the greatest fortunes ever made in this country were made before, during and immediately following the last depressions...as they will be again....for those who are prepared.
There's 3 cents worth that ought to spark some more discussion ;-)
Underneath it all, this is about DOLLARS. If you'll notice, the price of oil is directly tied to US DOLLARS. The value of dollars is, has and will continue to fall and that's where the President and his cronies come in.
The dollar's value against world currencies has eroded for a number of reasons recently. The cost of the war in Iraq may be part of it...although I bet that without this war the US economy would be in even worse shape at present.
That money that's being spent on the war is keeping a hell of a lot of people in the US employed right now that otherwise may not be and revenue flowing into predominately US companies in the military-industrial complex that otherwise may not be doing so well. Not to mention the fact there's more contractors involved in the war than there is military. And of course a great majority of those contractors are tied right back to the bottom line profits of guess who and his pals.
Since 2001, almost 45% of all jobs created in the US were directly associated with the housing booom. The administration, along with the Fed, created the incentives for lenders that caused the "mortgage crisis" we currently have. And we haven't begun to see the real meltdown it will result in.
Every one of those bogus mortgages was packaged up and sold to Wall St. and labeled as "attractive and secure" mortgage backed securities. Big smelly shitpiles is what they really are and they now sit in damn near every 401K and under funded pension plan in the country.
Not only that, but these were also sold heavily to foreign investors and financial institutions. People who can never get their money back...thus the recent money printing frenzy and personal guarantees offered by the Fed.
Most US citizens don't even realize the Fed isn't a government institution. If you like conspiracy theory and want to trace the real source of evil and greed in the US...do some reading about the origins of the Fed and observe where that fun little trail will lead you.
Compared to the market meltdown in '87 with junk bonds, the S&L crisis and bail out in '89 and the dot com boom and bust of the late 90's-2001 this crisis is many times worse. Nearly EVERYBODY has a house or mortgage (the highest percentage of homeowners ever) but with those other things not eveyone had tech stocks, investments related to S&Ls or junk bonds, etc. This is different and much more widespread.
The gap between rich and poor hasn't been greater in the US since just before the great Depression in 29. These oil and mortgage "crises" have been created by folks who want to see that gap widen even more. These created crisis are about a semi covert transfer of wealth...the largest such transfer in US history.
And here's an interesting tidbit to go along with that....
Did you know that the source of almost exactly 50% of all people's income in the US is the US government? Yep, either through social programs, military, government employment directly or through contractors paid by the government...it's true. There are some who believe that this has been a goal/aganda for a long time. What's the easiest way to control people? Control their access to money and the basic necessities it provides them.
Gas prices won't be coming down anytime soon, if ever. I just read that supply and reserves here are at several year high levels. This is about dollars and the fact OPEC is going to get it's cut regardless. The entire fiat money system worldwide is tied to dollars in one way or another.
When China or India go to buy oil from OPEC, they do it with a system that is based on dollars. China even lobbied hard to change this in recent years...to no avail. If dollars are worth shit, guess what...the dollar price goes up to compensate (or production goes down...however you want to look at it). OPEC is going to get their share regardless and it isn't ever likely that share will ever again be less than $52/barrel.
Traders and investors don't really determine these things...they only react to the circumstances and market conditions.
If you're living in the US, it's time to consider that the way things have been your whole life is about to change dramatically over the next 2-5 years. And who becomes the next President won't matter a bit. Talk to your grandparents and learn what you can about the depression era....there's something similar, and possibly worse, lining up to happen right now.
But also realize...some of the greatest fortunes ever made in this country were made before, during and immediately following the last depressions...as they will be again....for those who are prepared.
There's 3 cents worth that ought to spark some more discussion ;-)
Uptownbulker
BANNED
- Oct 21, 2007
- 682
- 516
You got that right and this time, I AM ready!
Whisker
Senior Member
- Dec 26, 2007
- 841
- 1,335
Insightful thought.
Loan sharks, mortgage brokers, and all the cronies are making their money now, and I feel we are certainly in the beginning of a depression.
The people in the US are weak to stand up or are ignorant/indifferent to what's going on but we are being robbed out of our pockets and our countrymen are dying for cronies to get rich from private bids and a corrupt infrastructure.
I've taken some precaution, already have some guns and ammo cause who knows if they will put bans on that and totally abolish the 2nd amendment.
It is not just one pawn, it is an initiative seeded deep from generations that stem off the british royal family. Prescott Bush, George Bush's grandfather, was involved in funding and profiting from the Nazis.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
George Bush Sr. is a senior advisor in the Carlyle Group, which was is notorious for mingling with middle eastern leaders and racketeering in the oil market. Strange enough the "Carlyle Capital Corp(CCC)" organization has just corroded it was all over the news yesterday. The Carlyle Group said CCC is a separate legal and business entity, and CCC's defaults did not trigger cross-defaults for any Carlyle borrowings.
The corruption and illegitimacy of this world is staggering, it is enough for me to go apeshit as an individual by himself is ineffectual to the establishment that is in place. The ironic part of all of this is that they paint us out to be the bad people of the world, doing "unethical" things but we at least are not profiting from the deaths of ignorance and naivety.
I wish the best to everyone here, hopefully we will all come out of this debacle unscathed.
caretaker2007
Regular Member
- Dec 20, 2007
- 454
- 464
justmeron has a great point. I forgot vegetable oil requires one of the 'zenes from oil refining. Dry ice, paper, even pizza requires oil products to lube the equipment.
Save oil, don't eat pizza!
Save oil, don't eat pizza!
Uptownbulker
BANNED
- Oct 21, 2007
- 682
- 516
Whisker, Dude!
IBM, General Motors, Ford Motor Company, ATT, Standard Oil, Remington, Chrysler Corporation, MGM, Republic, NBC, CBS, General Electric, RCA, Briggs And Stratton; the lawn mower guys, Sear And Roebuck, Montgomery Ward, Proctor and Gamble and many other companies had European affiliates in Germany, so would you please get off that tired old conspiratorial shit?
All of these companies and many others were global by the time of WWII.
I notice that you you not decry Mitsubishi which built aircraft which did a Hell of a job on the USA at a place called "Pearl Harbor".
What about Toyota, which built trucks, etc, for the Japanese war machine?
You should be further reminded that the "pure scientist", Wernher von Braun, formerly of the Nazi Vengeance Weapons program; see: V-1; "Buzzbomb" and V-2; Ballistic Missile, took the USA to space and the moon.
Further, when you get into WWII, you should be very certain that you know what you are talking about because I will challenge you if I believe you to be wrong and claim some authority in such matters.
(1) Personal acquaintance with this guy from Independence, Missouri, named Harry Truman.(I own one of his cars, to boot!)
(2) 57 hours of history; Modern European and US.
(3) 23 hours of Pre-Columbian history.
(4) PERSONAL interviews with:
(5)President Harry S. Truman.
(6)Grand Admiral Karl Doenitz.
(7) Personal interview with Otto Strasser.(Documented via early video tape.)
(8) Personal interviews with myriad US soldiers, German soldiers, three camp guards, THREE German U-Boot 'Kaleuns, FIVE US submarine commanders, one Korean War BAR Man, a couple of SS Men, one of the first batch of British SAS, one woman who was BORN in a camp and much more than you would ever care to know.
Cut the "liberal", socialist, revisionist, America Hating crap.
I will now exit this thread because I told the Mods that I would be a nice guy, even in the face of idiots.
IBM, General Motors, Ford Motor Company, ATT, Standard Oil, Remington, Chrysler Corporation, MGM, Republic, NBC, CBS, General Electric, RCA, Briggs And Stratton; the lawn mower guys, Sear And Roebuck, Montgomery Ward, Proctor and Gamble and many other companies had European affiliates in Germany, so would you please get off that tired old conspiratorial shit?
All of these companies and many others were global by the time of WWII.
I notice that you you not decry Mitsubishi which built aircraft which did a Hell of a job on the USA at a place called "Pearl Harbor".
What about Toyota, which built trucks, etc, for the Japanese war machine?
You should be further reminded that the "pure scientist", Wernher von Braun, formerly of the Nazi Vengeance Weapons program; see: V-1; "Buzzbomb" and V-2; Ballistic Missile, took the USA to space and the moon.
Further, when you get into WWII, you should be very certain that you know what you are talking about because I will challenge you if I believe you to be wrong and claim some authority in such matters.
(1) Personal acquaintance with this guy from Independence, Missouri, named Harry Truman.(I own one of his cars, to boot!)
(2) 57 hours of history; Modern European and US.
(3) 23 hours of Pre-Columbian history.
(4) PERSONAL interviews with:
(5)President Harry S. Truman.
(6)Grand Admiral Karl Doenitz.
(7) Personal interview with Otto Strasser.(Documented via early video tape.)
(8) Personal interviews with myriad US soldiers, German soldiers, three camp guards, THREE German U-Boot 'Kaleuns, FIVE US submarine commanders, one Korean War BAR Man, a couple of SS Men, one of the first batch of British SAS, one woman who was BORN in a camp and much more than you would ever care to know.
Cut the "liberal", socialist, revisionist, America Hating crap.
I will now exit this thread because I told the Mods that I would be a nice guy, even in the face of idiots.
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Uptownbulker
BANNED
- Oct 21, 2007
- 682
- 516
Oh, I'm sorry...I lied but didn't mean to.
I forgot the 23 hours of Anthropology, most of which were earned under the tutelage of Dr. William Bass: See "Body Farm".
Yeah; that is called in some circles a "Triple Major".
I'm a bit of a learner.
I forgot the 23 hours of Anthropology, most of which were earned under the tutelage of Dr. William Bass: See "Body Farm".
Yeah; that is called in some circles a "Triple Major".
I'm a bit of a learner.
Whisker
Senior Member
- Dec 26, 2007
- 841
- 1,335
I love America. I am a capitalist, and I believe everyone should have the opportunities that we do, within limits.
I do not think it is "socialist" to disagree with cronyism and special interests. It is not american hating crap in making connections to certain individuals/corporations and their profit from institutions that they have installed.
Your main objection was over Prescott Bush's affiliation with Nazi Germany. Everything you said made sense to me(and i never made a personal attack on your knowledge), but the Bush family has lied, cheated, and stolen from a lot of people in the US and the world, and just because I state this does not make me socialist, anti-american, or a liberal.
This is in George Bush Sr.'s own words
"the continuous consolidation of money and power into higher, tighter and righter hands."
-in respect to Iran-Contra
"if the American people really knew what we had done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched."
If my post came off as anti-american, socialist, liberal, or any of the other crap devil's advocates love to label me as, that's because you misunderstood my perspective. I was clearly trying to say that cronyism and deep seeded agendas are garbage, and if you disagree with that, may the proverbial god of whoever you worship have mercy on you.
What is a conspiracy exactly? I would defend my country in a second on honest terms, but what our government is doing in the world right now(foreign policy) is not only insulting to it's own citizens, it is ruining our relations with a ton of powerful countries.
I do not think it is "socialist" to disagree with cronyism and special interests. It is not american hating crap in making connections to certain individuals/corporations and their profit from institutions that they have installed.
Your main objection was over Prescott Bush's affiliation with Nazi Germany. Everything you said made sense to me(and i never made a personal attack on your knowledge), but the Bush family has lied, cheated, and stolen from a lot of people in the US and the world, and just because I state this does not make me socialist, anti-american, or a liberal.
This is in George Bush Sr.'s own words
"the continuous consolidation of money and power into higher, tighter and righter hands."
-in respect to Iran-Contra
"if the American people really knew what we had done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched."
If my post came off as anti-american, socialist, liberal, or any of the other crap devil's advocates love to label me as, that's because you misunderstood my perspective. I was clearly trying to say that cronyism and deep seeded agendas are garbage, and if you disagree with that, may the proverbial god of whoever you worship have mercy on you.
What is a conspiracy exactly? I would defend my country in a second on honest terms, but what our government is doing in the world right now(foreign policy) is not only insulting to it's own citizens, it is ruining our relations with a ton of powerful countries.
Smitty
BANNED
- Jan 31, 2008
- 633
- 374
You are so right on with everything you've said in this thread. I believe what you are getting at is you aren't anti-american, you are anti-robber barrons that are running this country into the ground. I think I'm on with that statement and if so I'm in total agreement with you.
This country is so fucked now due to the absolute corruption of the higher powers. The idea is to bankrupt our dollar which can usher in the Amero and bring about the NAU. This will make it easier for people to accept open boarders n what not because they think it will help the economy.
The idea the elites have isn't a secret. They want one centralized power to basically rule the world. So that the Bush's, Rockefeller's, Fords, Carnegie's, Rothschild's, and a few other elite families can have dominance over everyone in the world. This isn't some conspiracy, we see this happening more and more everyday.
Plus the fucking elections are always stacked in favor of these fuckin people. Ron Paul and maybe Kucinich were the only candidates running that didn't have some sort of ties to these families.
The only what these things will change is if these families are simply wiped out. But I guess then it would probably just start to happen with other families.
This country is so fucked now due to the absolute corruption of the higher powers. The idea is to bankrupt our dollar which can usher in the Amero and bring about the NAU. This will make it easier for people to accept open boarders n what not because they think it will help the economy.
The idea the elites have isn't a secret. They want one centralized power to basically rule the world. So that the Bush's, Rockefeller's, Fords, Carnegie's, Rothschild's, and a few other elite families can have dominance over everyone in the world. This isn't some conspiracy, we see this happening more and more everyday.
Plus the fucking elections are always stacked in favor of these fuckin people. Ron Paul and maybe Kucinich were the only candidates running that didn't have some sort of ties to these families.
The only what these things will change is if these families are simply wiped out. But I guess then it would probably just start to happen with other families.
celestmark
Registered Member
- Feb 20, 2008
- 56
- 39
Anyone ever wonder why the Arabs (Saudis) were buying METRIC TONS of gold 9 years back, when it was at a all time low?! I think it was around $212 an ounce. Now, do the math for what it's worth!
They have the gold and the oil. Now they can buy our American good at an all time bargine -- we did this to ourselves!
Now, isn't it amazing how the automobile industry can pull 35-50 mpg cars out of their @sses and people are forced to dump the Suv's and other gas guzzlers!
Yea, real freaking amazing! :twitch:
As far as Water4Gas goes... I made a bundle off of it UNTIL all the DayJobKiller/Affiliate Den cronies flooded the PPC market with their direct links. Still, tells me there is an open wide market for such affiliate products and reports!
PM if you want a list of good Water4GAs alternatives (real products)... :spy:
They have the gold and the oil. Now they can buy our American good at an all time bargine -- we did this to ourselves!
Now, isn't it amazing how the automobile industry can pull 35-50 mpg cars out of their @sses and people are forced to dump the Suv's and other gas guzzlers!
Yea, real freaking amazing! :twitch:
As far as Water4Gas goes... I made a bundle off of it UNTIL all the DayJobKiller/Affiliate Den cronies flooded the PPC market with their direct links. Still, tells me there is an open wide market for such affiliate products and reports!
PM if you want a list of good Water4GAs alternatives (real products)... :spy:
coreygeer
BANNED
- Oct 30, 2007
- 526
- 955
This "Water4Gas" thing.. I do hope no moron has put H2O in their gas tank..
I mean grats to the dude who came up with the idea.. Gas prices are rising so why not make a product giving relief to hopefuls who are suffering from high gas prices, and hell.. why not make it a basic common substance.. water.. but I am going to laugh if any one seriously does put H2O in their tank.
I mean grats to the dude who came up with the idea.. Gas prices are rising so why not make a product giving relief to hopefuls who are suffering from high gas prices, and hell.. why not make it a basic common substance.. water.. but I am going to laugh if any one seriously does put H2O in their tank.
- Status