Getting my Marketing and IT guys on board?

[JackThee]

The i.t. and marketing folks at my company are terrified I'm going to use a bunch of seo tools and get our domain blasted and black listed/banned/whatever.

1) Is there a good way to start doing what I need to be doing WITHOUT spending a wad on virtual machines? I've tended to the usual stuff and have site speed, meta, alt tags, titles tended to and in good order, fwiw.

2) What kind of intelligent reassurances would YOU need to hear from a low-pay-grade noob like me to get the ball rolling? (money pages < tier 1 < tier 2 buffering is where our conversation's at right now)

I know we need to be doing this. 3) Are private proxies the effective hedge I hear them to be or should I be thinking in a different direction?

 

[c4rtel]

Your company should consider setting aside $20,000 / year for SEO.

 

[JackThee]

c4rtel Appreciate the set aside suggestion. I'm looking to have an intelligent conversation with these guys. SEO is a blackbox to them. A mystery with lots of sharp pokey danger signs on it. They don't understand. To say, "OK Mr. Marketing Man... set aside $20K and we can get started." *might* be met with a raised eyebrow expecting a bit more followup.

I'd expect some kind of snark from Mr. Marketing Man or Mr. IT Man along the lines of... "Do you prefer that in small unmarked bills?" and then they high 5 each other and go get a something-or-other latte down the hall chuckling at their witty retort.

No, I'm going to need more to bring them over to the BlackHatWays. I seriously need to either just route around these clowns and ask forgiveness later. (A real possibility) Or get them onboard and lending some real help to the cause (budget, tools, etc).

 

[Ventio]

try showing them some examples of what your competitors are doing in terms of seo. show how the tool can help them get an advantage and bring in money. every time they talk cost you should be talking the return they'll be able to see. if you can prepare some concrete examples and show how tools or seo in general can help them gain leverage then im sure they'll start to come around

 

[jakesnke]

If you are in an inhouse position, you need to be insanely careful with your tactics. Inhouse positions are about long term growth, taking low risk strategies that stand the test of ti If you fuck up and get the site penalized, you will hurt the companies bottom line for a long time, and possibly force cutbacks of jobs within the company.

If you are a low pay noob, I would not suggest going anything but whitehat, until you can prove your tactics are safe on a smaller scale.

 

[iMakeRacks]

Simply put, If I'm looking to buy product, I search google for it, and if the product is not on the first page of google, I don't buy. Tell their asses the company needs SEO because if you're not on the first page of google, you don't exist.

 

[c4rtel]

Your marketing team is probably exhausting other areas, direct mail, billboards, where only a certain segment of the population is drawn to.

You might be sparking the need in your target market but are losing them because of a sketchy online presence.

 

[JackThee]

try showing them some examples of what your competitors are doing in terms of seo. show how the tool can help them get an advantage and bring in money. every time they talk cost you should be talking the return they'll be able to see. if you can prepare some concrete examples and show how tools or seo in general can help them gain leverage then im sure they'll start to come around

We have decent position on lots of keywords. Some are page 1 (most aren't but could be). Some are even top 3. But, I can point to plenty of our product that has no page 1 rank at all PLUS we have no presence for in CPC. The latter is easily addressed. The former (organic) is, in some cases, a total blow out. We're getting skunked. They "get it" they understand we're not ranking for some of the core product offering.

Seems to me they're more skittish of the "Oh God you're going to wreck the whole house to get to page 1!" mentality.

 

[JackThee]

You know, I'd be inclined to believe that Jake. Time's just not our friend any more. Jobs come and go. People come and go. Companies rise and fall. My whitehat has worked pretty darned well. I've earned their trust (they're at least listening). I simply want to goose the heck outta things and get on with it. The way I look at it, if I *DON'T* do this cutbacks could be a real possibility. I'm not doing it solely to rank on page 1, I'm getting aggressive so as to be in position to convert like a madman.

 

[Zwielicht]

Explain the differences between white hat and black hat SEO and how you will only be doing white hat SEO on their website. Also show them that some of the marketing tools that you will be using are created by search engines that have the power to sandbox their website (Google Keyword planner is a good example). Do you have any certifications offered by Google or Bing such as a Bing Ads certification or a Google Adwords certification(I know these certifications are for PPC, but they're just examples)? If not, go get them and show them that "Google trusts you".

 

[JackThee]

Your marketing team is probably exhausting other areas, direct mail, billboards, where only a certain segment of the population is drawn to.

You might be sparking the need in your target market but are losing them because of a sketchy online presence.

You're absolutely right c4rtel. We have a healthy direct mail marketing budget (catalogs + postcards), opt in email, etc. The online presence is actually pretty strong (market space wise anyway). We're the 8,000 lb gorilla. We're on a growth footing and expectations are high.

 

[JackThee]

Explain the differences between white hat and black hat SEO and how you will only be doing white hat SEO on their website. Also show them that some of the marketing tools that you will be using are created by search engines that have the power to sandbox their website (Google Keyword planner is a good example). Do you have any certifications offered by Google or Bing such as a Bing Ads certification or a Google Adwords certification(I know these certifications are for PPC, but they're just examples)? If not, go get them and show them that "Google trusts you".

Good suggestions Zwielicht. We have a really healthy AdWords budget. Last month was over $10K. So, budget's not the issue. It really comes down to method and any kind of adverse impact I might unintentionally inflict on ourselves.

So, there's my dilemma. How do I persuade these guys we can continue to plod along and be content with playing the title tags and alt tags and minimized css/jscript game -OR- we could go big and get agressive?

 

[Ventio]

If your trying to convince them to do white hat seo then maybe selling them on content marketing would work better. You can explain how social interaction & signals, press releases and content all effect seo positively and they dont have to worry about breaking any rules. Personally i think its the best way to approach seo, especially when supplemented with some "grey hat" techniques

 

[tony_d]

Just build a second site, and unleash your high-risk tactics on it. There's no other way to be 'safe'.

 

[Zwielicht]

Good suggestions Zwielicht. We have a really healthy AdWords budget. Last month was over $10K. So, budget's not the issue. It really comes down to method and any kind of adverse impact I might unintentionally inflict on ourselves.

So, there's my dilemma. How do I persuade these guys we can continue to plod along and be content with playing the title tags and alt tags and minimized css/jscript game -OR- we could go big and get agressive?

Entrepreneurs playing it safe; that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Anyway, here are some other suggestions:

• Use analytics to determine how much of their traffic is coming from Google. If it's not a lot, just explain to them that even if something happened, their website wouldn't be useless.
• Tony_d mentioned building a second website and using your methods there. After you've built the second website, you can show them that it's "safe".
• Write a paper showing them proof of what white hat SEO can do for their website and how they can increase profits substantially.

I'll make more suggestions if I think of any.

 

[c4rtel]

You might want to make more future decisions with SEO in mind.

Letting your competitors own SEO makes it easy for them to knock you off the ladder.

 

[keadams26]

Just build a second site, and unleash your high-risk tactics on it. There's no other way to be 'safe'.

OP, you will not get a better or more accurate response than this.

 

[JackThee]

If your trying to convince them to do white hat seo then maybe selling them on content marketing would work better. You can explain how social interaction & signals, press releases and content all effect seo positively and they dont have to worry about breaking any rules. Personally i think its the best way to approach seo, especially when supplemented with some "grey hat" techniques

Thanks Ventio. They're already cool with what we've done in the realm of white hat tactics. It's been a validating and encouraging experience and one I'm sure they're going to green light for some of our other product sites. I've been gentle and encouraging even when it comes to addressing sitemaps and GWT and htaccess, yada yada (you guys know the drill). They're just spooked as all get out though when I start bringing in the topic of automating this and automating that.... "OOOOH NOOOO! Sky is falling!"

So, as someone suggested last night in this thread, I'll probably pour the effort into a new'ish direction. More on that below. I have some thoughts along those lines and could use additional insight.

 

[JackThee]

Just build a second site, and unleash your high-risk tactics on it. There's no other way to be 'safe'.

Along those lines Tony_D (and I really do believe this may be the hole in the fence I needed to be attuned to) what if that second site was one of our social sites? Something that already has some age and authority to it (Tw, Fb, G+). Would any of those/all of those suffice to be the "second site"? Or, are those too high value (akin to the actual money site)?

Sincerely appreciate the aha moment you brought to the conversation.