Here's a puzzle for the wizards out there ....

[T5Monkey]

Hey guys,

I'm a personal trainer trying to get some of my sites to rank for the search term 'personal trainer york'

I've done some SEO work following matthew woodwards videos using Ultimate Demon for Tier 1 links and GSA search engine ranker and GSA search engine indexer for tier two.

After a week of doing this work the rank has dropped from about 15 to 30! Is it normal to see a drop in your rankings immediately after doing some SEO work? My websites are 6 months to a year old now and fairly well on page optimized using SEO pressor and lots of reasonably unique quality content.

If you check out 'personal trainer york' on Google UK you'll see the top sites seem to rank with minimal back links and I just can't figure out why they are ranking higher than my site with seemingly less SEO juice.

Input appreciated guys! I'll give you some tips on how to bulk up in return

 

[mickyfu]

Yes, search the term "Google dance".

 

[black101]

its a google dance.

 

[Goal Line Technology]

might as well join in on this dance lol

but seriously OP it is a very competitive term,
just wait it out

 

[sn0rt]

It could be a couple of things.

May be the tango. May be low quality links you've built.

Let things settle for a few days and you'll be able to better gauge it..

 

[Techxan]

You are promoting a local business like a national IM site. You are destroying it in the process.

You do not build tiers and run links at a local site. Local businesses do not behave that way.

It's not a dance, its death throes.

 

[SocialMediaManager]

 

[T5Monkey]

You are promoting a local business like a national IM site. You are destroying it in the process.

You do not build tiers and run links at a local site. Local businesses do not behave that way.

It's not a dance, its death throes.

I have several sites I'm trying out different strategies with - identifying the issue is one thing, how about you add something constructive about the correct way of doing in in your view?

 

[Techxan]

I have several sites I'm trying out different strategies with - identifying the issue is one thing, how about you add something constructive about the correct way of doing in in your view?

Sure.

Use only one site for your business.
Get citations and maintain NAP consistency across all citations.
Get in all the maps.
Get backlinks that are only related to your business.
Advertise locally.
Get your on page nailed down to target only one keyword unless the keywords are semantic to each other.
Get social, locally.

 

[T5Monkey]

Sure.

Use only one site for your business.
Get citations and maintain NAP consistency across all citations.
Get in all the maps.
Get backlinks that are only related to your business.
Advertise locally.
Get your on page nailed down to target only one keyword unless the keywords are semantic to each other.
Get social, locally.

Thankyou - that's extremely useful.

I have one main site I use for personal training and one for pilates classes.

I've listed in Google maps and done my best to submit to the other local directories - although I'll review this and I do try to make sure the citations are identical, I didn't realize a citation without a web address would still have value so that's a good learn from you.

I'm using adwords in my specific area and have pages targeting each of the specific 44 areas of my city.

In terms of the keyword I'm going after 'personal trainer york' I use symantic variations such as 'personal trainers york' 'personal trainer in york' etc... so I think that's what you mean about symantic variance ?

In terms of 'all the maps'

Can you pin that down, do you mean yahoo, bing etc ?

In terms of related back links - would the fitness area of an articles site work for this? I've gotten DMOZ for my sites and backlinks from other local businesses where I can.

I have some legacy links from previous paid services - would it be a good idea to disown them in google webmaster tools (I read this can be done?)

thanks

 

[Techxan]

A citation is when your name, address, and phone appears online. We refer to this "NAP". A citation is whenever your NAP is listed, with or without a link.

If you use the same NAP for both sites, you will hurt your local SEO. Build out the site that is most lucrative as your main site.

For the second site, buy a magic jack to get a second phone number for the second site, and add a suite number or department to your address line. This is enough for Google to consider it different.

Then you will have different NAP for the second site.

Go to Brightlocal.com, and sign up for a plan. It is free for 30 days, and you do not need to give them a CC. Go into the citation tracker module, set it with your information, and run a citation report. This report will give you a list of citations, including the ones you have and the ones you do not have. Do this for all your sites that you have a unique NAP for. Right before the trial ends, run another report.

Before doing anymore link building, go into the citation report and and get all the citations that are ranked above 25 first.

Make your citations as close to identical as possible, same information, same pictures, same everything. Your goal here is to make Google see the same information everywhere so there can be no doubt you are the company it thinks you are.. Do not use different descriptions for each citation in an attempt to broaden your services coverage. Decide on your description (about 200 words or so), and list them all the same.

Do not disavow any links yet, wait and see if the citations can overpower them.

For maps, include google, bing, yahoo, and mapquest.

BONUS TIDBIT:

Decide on the way you want our phone number to be, and use it exactly that way all the time. By this I mean in the US all of these are correct for phone numbers (to a human):

713-888-8888
(713) 888-8888
713 888 8888
713 888-8888

To Google, these are different numbers as far as citation consistency is concerned. Pick one style and stick with it.

Same for the address. Use Road or Rd, Street or St, don't mix them up.

If you abbreviate your city or state, do it the same way each time.

Some sites will allow you to put in long and short descriptions. Use your Google description for all citations, when a longer description is available, use the same Google description and add more information to the end. This way, the description will still be the same, but longer ones will simply add more info.

If you use Firefox with the "informenter" plugin, you can set all this up so most citations can be filled in by simply clicking. This plugin will also help you maintain consistency.

 

[Nigel Farage]

I have several sites I'm trying out different strategies with - identifying the issue is one thing, how about you add something constructive about the correct way of doing in in your view?

There's not "his" view. There's the right way, and he's telling you what that is. Everyone else in this thread is completely clueless and will get your site deindexed so you'd better figure out who to pay attention to and who to ignore. It's possible the damage you've done to your site is irreparable, and you might have to start all over again.

Your problem is that you are wrong, and you have a track record of believing in wrong, told to you by people that are wrong, and being wrong has inertia; it has momentum. When trying to correct someone that is wrong, the 1st thing you need to do is stop that momentum; bring them to a full and complete stop. Then get them to understand and admit that they don't know anything; worse they know a whole lot of wrongness that needs to be erased and rewritten by that which is right.

It's harder to teach someone that has already gone down the path of wrong. The desire that sent them in the wrong direction in the first place will remain with them forever. People that teach wrong play on a person's desire to believe that the world is a certain way, and it is extremely difficult to deprogram them once they have been wired for wrong.

When I attempt to save a person that is wrong, and is going in the wrong direction, I closely monitor how much they resist course correction. If they are determined to remain wrong, and going in the wrong direction, I let them go and move on. You cannot save some people, as they do not want to be saved. They just want you to drown with them.

 

[T5Monkey]

Thanks that's superb advice.

Nigel - I have literally no idea the point you're pushing at, I'm here to learn from those who know more than me, am taking on board the advice - and if necessary, happy to start from scratch.

A Couple of follow on questions:

- I have some aged domains for 'glasgow personal trainer' that always ranked top 10 ish and are about 6 years old. Is it worth turning them into money sites for personal training in York?... or am I better picking a new domain with the keyword I'm going after in?

- If I delete the other local businesses from Google will it correct itself with regards to the local SEO?

- In terms of the linking - Is there any value in running some links to any new page constructed along your guidelines? I'm thinking of high quality stuff like linking back from my previous pages (I have about 4-5 websites based on fitness which give a link authority of about 25-45)

- Also - would good quality quality custom content submitted to article websites, squidoo and hubpages be beneficial ?

I'm also running some locals pages on some of my sites - that's 25 to 45 pages of hand spun content targeting specific long-tail areas of the city - is this a good idea when optimizing for local or should I have a main money site that Does NOT do this?

- In terms of high quality links, are there any paid resources/services to build very high quality links from fitness related blogs and websites?

Many thanks - Ben

 

[T5Monkey]

Sure.

Use only one site for your business.
Get citations and maintain NAP consistency across all citations.
Get in all the maps.
Get backlinks that are only related to your business.
Advertise locally.
Get your on page nailed down to target only one keyword unless the keywords are semantic to each other.
Get social, locally.

Thanks for the superb advice - may I ask are you a pro SEO guy and/or for hire?

Thanks - Ben

 

[Techxan]

Following up: follow on questions:

- I have some aged domains for 'glasgow personal trainer' that always ranked top 10 ish and are about 6 years old. Is it worth turning them into money sites for personal training in York?... or am I better picking a new domain with the keyword I'm going after in?

Depends on how far Glascow is from York. The site is probably more valuable to turn into a tier one site.

- If I delete the other local businesses from Google will it correct itself with regards to the local SEO?

It will correct Google. Depending on how many peopel scraped these business details, the local SEO situation might be a nighmare.

- In terms of the linking - Is there any value in running some links to any new page constructed along your guidelines? I'm thinking of high quality stuff like linking back from my previous pages (I have about 4-5 websites based on fitness which give a link authority of about 25-45)

Linking these sites to yours will help a litte unless you have left no footprints and these sites are completely separate from one another. If they are fully separate, you essentially have a small private blog network. The links will be much more valuable in this case. However, after getting 3 or so links from a single site, google will discount many of the subsequent links.

- Also - would good quality quality custom content submitted to article websites, squidoo and hubpages be beneficial ?

Not to article websites, no. Squiddoo and hub pages are great, if the content is crafted carefully.

I'm also running some locals pages on some of my sites - that's 25 to 45 pages of hand spun content targeting specific long-tail areas of the city - is this a good idea when optimizing for local or should I have a main money site that Does NOT do this?

You are getting into a fuzzy area here. You are asking questions like you are promoting an IM product, but you seem to be promoting a local business that provides a service. When you refer to your money site, do you mean your small business site, or one of the other properties that you own?

For a small business using spun content is a no-no. A real customer may go to that page, and unless your stuff is completely readable you credibility is ruined. You need pages for the services you offer and the things you want to tell you customers, not to just target keywords. Quality matters here, too.

As a local small business, almost none of this is even required. Get the citations, get the NAP consistency, get a few great backlinks, and promote your service thru social media by joining groups that cater to your area. keep adding good content, and you will float to the top.

You get a special algorithm when you are a local business, as long as you act like a local business.

- In terms of high quality links, are there any paid resources/services to build very high quality links from fitness related blogs and websites?

Yes, and I am not sharing them. There are some very good paid citation sources too.

Thanks for the superb advice - may I ask are you a pro SEO guy and/or for hire?

You're welcome, and yes I am, and yes I am.

 

[cryptons]

The other sites u told must be having 301 so they ranking with a very less links!

 

[Parrotfish2005]

Techxan, very good advice. I don't think I can add much to your thoughts.

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

The other sites u told must be having 301 so they ranking with a very less links!

Dude, you are back!

Do you ever read the whole thread?

 

[Rebecca Astley]

google dance?

 

[YouMadBro]

its a google dance.

Will you noobs stop it with the "Google dance"? There is NO Google Dance, even Matt Cutts debunked this myth in his blog back in 2007, for god's sake. The Google Dance was the effect of Google updating its SERPs once a month and this only occurred in the first years of Google. Nowadays Google updates its SERPS daily and more than once; ergo the only dance you'd do would be during a couple of hours.

Repeat after me: there is no Google dance and I will not mention it again so that the rest of noobs don't spread this myth.

To the OP, your Tier 1's suck. Only do manual sites to serve your Tier 1 and treat them as if they were your money site.

Cheers