Flippa Listing Stats Current 07-01-2012

[kvmcable]

For those following the site flipping area you know I made some pretty wild claims last week about sellers having many accounts. Low Flippa sell-through rates, MLM activities and other notes. I was recently contacted by a few asking where I got my data and some even thought I was off my rocker.

After much consideration, I decided to share a one day snapshot of the Flippa data I collect and let skeptics and friends draw their own conclusions. This data was mined this morning and is in an Excel spreadsheet so you can download it and use it as you wish. Currently it's grouped by domain IPs in the far right column.

Points of interest:

1. Mulitiple sellers listing domains hosted on the same IP
2. This scrape doesn't included hidden, private or some premium listings, hence why it's 1707 listings
3. Sort by relists and you'll find 404 listings out of 1707 are relists (just under 25%) currently listed were listed before. I think the record holder is on his 10th relist. The number in that column shows the number of times the auction has been relisted.
4. Draw your own conclusions and do your own research.
5. About the MLM Group - GoGVO.com owns a group of seller's IPs in this list and Joel runs his own MLM marketing seminars showing marketers how to make money online. He has a cruise every January and no doubt at least some of his strategy is teaching Flippa marketing as my database has more than 20 high listing IDs all from one IP assigned to GoGVO's webhosting that supports GoGVO marketing strategies.

I think most legitimate Flippa sellers will be surprised to see this data and the obvious information it provides. I won't be listing my whole database or may not even update this list again but just offer it today to support what I said last week. I suspect many might draw different conclusions than I did and I have no problem with that.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkCmrZ8PKZ85dEpTb0tnWHBEOWZOYnZOOHVqYldSQ3c

Best regards,

kvmcable

 

[rendesr]

Very interesting. Have you written an automated script to pull back all that info?
Once nice enhancement could be to use something like http://www.ewhois.com/ to pull back all other associated domains with that hosting, with that adsense pub code or via a GA tracking code, would give you some extra information!

 

[jrlar]

For those following the site flipping area you know I made some pretty wild claims last week about sellers having many accounts. Low Flippa sell-through rates, MLM activities and other notes. I was recently contacted by a few asking where I got my data and some even thought I was off my rocker.

After much consideration, I decided to share a one day snapshot of the Flippa data I collect and let skeptics and friends draw their own conclusions. This data was mined this morning and is in an Excel spreadsheet so you can download it and use it as you wish. Currently it's grouped by domain IPs in the far right column.

Points of interest:

1. Mulitiple sellers listing domains hosted on the same IP
2. This scrape doesn't included hidden, private or some premium listings, hence why it's 1707 listings
3. Sort by relists and you'll find 404 listings out of 1707 are relists (just under 25%) currently listed were listed before. I think the record holder is on his 10th relist. The number in that column shows the number of times the auction has been relisted.
4. Draw your own conclusions and do your own research.
5. About the MLM Group - GoGVO.com owns a group of seller's IPs in this list and Joel runs his own MLM marketing seminars showing marketers how to make money online. He has a cruise every January and no doubt at least some of his strategy is teaching Flippa marketing as my database has more than 20 high listing IDs all from one IP assigned to GoGVO's webhosting that supports GoGVO marketing strategies.

I think most legitimate Flippa sellers will be surprised to see this data and the obvious information it provides. I won't be listing my whole database or may not even update this list again but just offer it today to support what I said last week. I suspect many might draw different conclusions than I did and I have no problem with that.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkCmrZ8PKZ85dEpTb0tnWHBEOWZOYnZOOHVqYldSQ3c

Best regards,

kvmcable

When you made those claims I knew you weren't bs'ing because I've seen many sellers have banned and suspended accounts on flippa still selling under those accounts or when you go to their profiles it shows a possible link to other profiles that are live with auctions going on. Flippa is a crock of ish but they control majority of the market share for site marketplace so everyone goes there.

 

[kvmcable]

Yes I wrote a script to pull the data.

I considered running domains through ewhois.com but wasn't sure it would provide any different conclusion that the domain IP concludes. While there are maybe cases where some sellers host on a hosting service that uses shared IPs, I believe the odds out of all those thousands if not millions of IPs available on shared hosting that even two unlinked sellers could stumble on the same host and coincidentally be assigned to the same IP have to be enormous odds.

Like I said there's plenty of research that can be done and even if you do silly things like do a multi-sort by current bid price and number of bids you'll easily spot the shill bidders. All their auctions follow the same pattern. It's a huge footprint actually and they stand out of the crowd easily when you see the data in a spreadsheet.

Best regards

 

[foreveryoung21]

Yes, I'm foreveryoung21, Im 16 years old and I started this JV with Xenix9 about 4 - 5 months ago. I worked really hard on the site and was really happy when someone bought it on Flippa for $2k, as you can see in this thread: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/making-money/449846-16-year-old-journey-success-how-i-made-2k-3-months.html

But a week or two later, I was really disappointed that the seller never paid for the site, and I was hoping to can make a few bucks when Xenix relisted the site on flippa, and now this crap ? I don't even understand what you're trying to say and i need answers.

 

[kvmcable]

Your stats are NOT accurate by any means.

Somehow you listed one of my sites - which I recently relisted, as the buyer refused to pay and I won the flippa dispute over it.

Row #984 - HIPHOPSIDE.COM - ProfitableVentures

This site was created with a JV between me & foreveryoung21 on BHW .

What do you have to say about this ?

Whoa cowboy. Nobody said anything negative about your website. That list is all websites except hidden, private and premium that were listed this morning. The data you see is the data Flippa listed on your auction. Go look it says your website has been relisted. Of course there are legitimate reasons this happens. I previously said that 1 out of 5 buyers on Flippa don't pay. So of course there will be relists. The ones to examine closely are the sellers of multiple relists or high numbers of relists.

I can name 10 sellers off the top of my head that have constant relists after listings supposedly sold 3-5 times successfully. In case you're unaware, the game is using throw away bidding accounts. Once the listing gets out of the buyer's range they place the last bid with a throw away account. File for a non-paying bidder, Flippa suspends the throw away account, seller gets a free relist and start the listing all over again for free. Like I said I've seen sellers do this 3-5 times on one listing. What are the odds a $100-$150 listing closed 5 times successfully and all 5 times the buyer didn't pay? Odds say it happens 1 in 5 not 5 in 5.

Don't get your panties in a bundle, although since you mentioned this silly listing I did look and see the listing is suspended and your account is banned. Please don't blame that on me. That is between you and Flippa. I just harvested the data. I didn't create it.

 

[kvmcable]

Your work is pointless and a waste of bandwidth, unless you can separate the scammers from the legitimate sellers.

That's all I'm saying here.


/out

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but I don't appreciate you using your Jr VIP to neg rep my account. I've asked a mod to investigate.

Example, you listed one of my sites - which I recently relisted, as the buyer refused to pay and I won the flippa dispute over it.

It looks like Flippa has issued you a Permanent Ban as soon as they reported to work today. Also you said you had a buyer that didn't pay yet your account says you lost 1 Dispute and haven't won any. When a buyer doesn't pay and you file a dispute your account says 1 dispute won. Your account doesn't say that. Care to explain?

https://flippa.com/users/469070

Maybe this has something to do with the ban???

https://flippa.com/auctions/2762016/bids

That is your recent auction that closed.

 

[nihalsad]

Excuse me kvmcable you have no right to point out who are legit and who are scammers unless you can show sufficient proof.You can't just post a list of sites and say they are all scammers!

 

[steelballs]

Excuse me kvmcable you have no right to point out who are legit and who are scammers unless you can show sufficient proof.You can't just post a list of sites and say they are all scammers!

The OP had the right to open the thread - and from what I can see the information he is gathering is very useful

Now moving on to all the folks who are squeeling because they do not like what they see in the kvmcable files - maybe it is time to 'look in the mirror' and say why did I let that happen!

As for cherry picking out kvmcable for the blame - caveat emptor maybe he is smarter than all you guys on this subject!

 

[williamk]

I know ofter buyers bid from different accounts to. I had a interest in a site which had almost no bids. But just after I bid (25$) It went to 105$ in 3 hours lol.

 

[kvmcable]

Excuse me kvmcable you have no right to point out who are legit and who are scammers unless you can show sufficient proof.You can't just post a list of sites and say they are all scammers!

There must be a language barrier here. For the THIRD TIME, this spreadsheet contains ALL THE WEBSITES AND DOMAIN listings that were actively running yesterday morning. What isn't on the list are hidden, private or premium listings because those aren't competitors to my client's listings.

This isn't a list of bad listings or suspect listings! What don't some of you understand about ALL LISTINGS? Hell all my client's listings are in that group and I know they're legitimate! Of course Meathead1234 and many other very good sellers are on that spreadsheet if they had auctions running yesterday morning. DUH, now for the FOURTH TIME, the spreadsheet is ALL LISTINGS except some hidden, private or premium listings!

@xenix9 QUIT ALREADY! You got more damn excuses for all your actions than anyone I know. You PM'd me and told me you had 3 selling IDs on shared hosting so of course you'll have 3 seller accounts on one IP. It's a violation to have more than one Flippa account per PERSON. Go read the damn rules and quit blaming me for anything! I never said you were a scammer or even mentioned your listing. You brought all this out. There is a big difference between Permanent Ban and Suspended Seller accounts. Good luck getting that account back and by your own admission you're breaking the rules.

You're on here where Andrew from Flippa is a member saying what account you have, why you were banned and that you have at least 2 more accounts. No coincidence there are two accounts linked to your banned account so now you're telling Flippa to ban your other accounts? They would have every right by your own admission! No legitimate seller has a need for more than one account and Flippa can and will issue perm bans to anyone they find using more than one account.

I contacted flippa already - and I know why I got banned - it has nothing to do with multiple accounts. I used my paypal to pay for another person's flippa credit 3 days ago ( a member here as well) - and my account got linked to his; and he was involved in shill bidding.

AND HE WAS ACTIVELY BIDDING ON TWO OF YOUR LISTINGS? I think you just said another member here, that must be a friend if you're paying his bill, was bidding on your listings. Ummm, that's called shill bidding to have friends bid up your listings. Stop while you're ahead.

 

[Karlos]

As for cherry picking out kvmcable for the blame - caveat emptor maybe he is smarter than all you guys on this subject!

He has already demonstrated that...in style! He has exposed the connections and people can make of those connection whatever they want.

Question his data if it's wrong e.g. if he claims you have listed a site when you didn't, but only the scammers, shill bidders and anyone engaging in illegal activity has cause to complain at the publication of those stats. And Flippa

The experienced-people.net forum has also been working on stats. Here's a graph of the extent of non-paying bidders in Flippa, for example. There's also a spreadsheet of the prices paid for private listings (which is usually hidden from view in Flippa). The owner has a full database of all Flippa's listings from the day they started. kvmcable, you should hitch up with him. He asks for suggestions in this thread as to what data would be useful to buyers and sellers and what he should be extracting from his database. Anybody wanting the true picture on Flippa stats, rather than relying on what Flippa feeds the public, should be congratulating the likes of kvmcable. There's a lot of fraud that goes on in Flippa and it appears Flippa is party to at least some of it by not taking even the most basic steps to weed out shill bidders.

 

[Karlos]

There must be a language barrier here. For the THIRD TIME, this spreadsheet contains ALL THE WEBSITES AND DOMAIN listings that were actively running yesterday morning. What isn't on the list are hidden, private or premium listings because those aren't competitors to my client's listings.

Mate, I suggest you ignore those who doth protest too much

 

[meathead1234]

Some solid data there, Kvmcable. Can confirm there is no bias or anything - one of my listings is in that list of current live listings. I think people are misunderstanding the data, though. It was made clear people should make their own conclusions from the data provided as well.

For all those arguing and attacking the OP for providing this data, maybe you will learn to cover your tracks better in future.

 

[Karlos]

@karlos - Right now I have 70+ sites with a single IP. All of them are listed at HostGator, along with plenty of other sites not owned by me. This is called "Shared Hosting" and there is nothing wrong with it - my own computer's iP has nothing to do with this. If I listed these 70 sites on flippa; and 40 of them sold; then I get a partner to relist the 30 that's not sold - I'd show up on the list in the wrong way wouldn't I?

Absolutely, and deservedly so. Why use a "partner" to list your sites using a different account? Brokers who have several employees and list multiple sites make do with one account.

@kvmcable : I had over 20 accounts on Flippa when it was a hot market for sellers. and there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of ebay sellers have multiple accounts, even when it violates their ToS. That is not the point here, I am not here to discuss violation of website's TOS - I do it on a daily basis; and so do a lot of members here; this is a Blackhat IM forum.

I don't care about you violating Flippa's ToS but the fact that you had 20 accounts is evidence that you're the shady sort who indulges in a bit of shill bidding to drive up the price of sites he's selling thus cheating buyers. You might think you're very smart but things are going to get a lot more difficult for your type.

 

[AndrewAU]

kvmcable : I had over 20 accounts on Flippa when it was a hot market for sellers. and there is nothing wrong with that ... I do it on a daily basis; and so do a lot of members here; this is a Blackhat IM forum.

There is everything wrong with this which is why we invest in identifying and removing these duplicates - especially when we have irrefutable evidence of shill bidding as we do here (by your own admission). As per Karlos's comment, there is no legitimate use-case for having more than one account. We wish you well with your endeavours elsewhere ...

 

[AndrewAU]

kvmcable - I'm afraid there is a giant leap between data and wisdom here. As much as users can "draw their own conclusions", there is not a lot here not already accessible from our advanced search function, and nothing here offers a solution to the notion of shill bidding beyond what we already have in place.

Yes, we do have multiple sellers listing on the same IP. This is simply the nature of shared hosting. We're the world's largest website marketplace so this is going to happen. Anybody currently running a site on shared hosting can check who is alongside them at my-ip-neighbors (dot-com). Not quite sure on how we might use this information to stop any shill bidding as the total overlap between buyers and sellers in already incredibly low. Note that the bulk of sellers on the same IP in our data are for godaddy domains rather than websites. I'm not grasping how this qualifies as a point of interest.

As others have stated, a site can be relisted for one of two reasons: either the original listing did not attract a buyer, or the sale unfortunately fell through. Both can happen for a range of reasons - unrealistic pricing expectations (common given the nuances of website valuations), key information missing from the listing, an unqualified buyer, sub-optimal listing content. We work hard to address each of these and the degree that this results in 25% relists is pretty well how auction marketplaces work. Again, hardly a point of interest given it is better than what is suggested by our published sales rate.

Finally, we take any reports of fraud seriously. We're happy to look further into the clams relating to GoGVO but need more than them hosting a cruise that might mention Flippa. Note that there is arguably a conflict of interest in the statements made by kvmcable in this regard if kvmcable and GoGVO compete by both providing services to Flippa sellers.

When a buyer doesn't pay and you file a dispute your account says 1 dispute won.

This is wrong. We've never done this.

 

[jrlar]

kvmcable - I'm afraid there is a giant leap between data and wisdom here. As much as users can "draw their own conclusions", there is not a lot here not already accessible from our advanced search function, and nothing here offers a solution to the notion of shill bidding beyond what we already have in place.

Yes, we do have multiple sellers listing on the same IP. This is simply the nature of shared hosting. We're the world's largest website marketplace so this is going to happen. Anybody currently running a site on shared hosting can check who is alongside them at my-ip-neighbors (dot-com). Not quite sure on how we might use this information to stop any shill bidding as the total overlap between buyers and sellers in already incredibly low. Note that the bulk of sellers on the same IP in our data are for godaddy domains rather than websites. I'm not grasping how this qualifies as a point of interest.

As others have stated, a site can be relisted for one of two reasons: either the original listing did not attract a buyer, or the sale unfortunately fell through. Both can happen for a range of reasons - unrealistic pricing expectations (common given the nuances of website valuations), key information missing from the listing, an unqualified buyer, sub-optimal listing content. We work hard to address each of these and the degree that this results in 25% relists is pretty well how auction marketplaces work. Again, hardly a point of interest given it is better than what is suggested by our published sales rate.

Finally, we take any reports of fraud seriously. We're happy to look further into the clams relating to GoGVO but need more than them hosting a cruise that might mention Flippa. Note that there is arguably a conflict of interest in the statements made by kvmcable in this regard if kvmcable and GoGVO compete by both providing services to Flippa sellers.


This is wrong. We've never done this.

Andrew, I appreciate you addressing kvmcable's thread here however one thing that I see a lot of is the use of multiple accounts especially suspended and banned accounts. I had a recent domain listing on flippa that had banned member place a bid on and when I mistakenly accepted their bid (because I didn't notice the ban) flippa allowed me to do so even though this member was banned. If you would like the listing info let me know and I'll get it to you but I found that interesting. In fact banned/suspended members seem to have the same access as members who haven't been banned such as they are able to bid on listings, comment on listings, etc.

 

[AndrewAU]

banned/suspended members seem to have the same access as members who haven't been banned such as they are able to bid on listings, comment on listings, etc.

The split between banned and suspended is that suspended can still log into Flippa while Banned cannot. Neither are able to comments, sell or bid. Feel free to PM me your listing and I can look into further for you if you like.

 

[jrlar]

The split between banned and suspended is that suspended can still log into Flippa while Banned cannot. Neither are able to comments, sell or bid. Feel free to PM me your listing and I can look into further for you if you like.

See that's what you're saying and that's what most believe it should be but that's not what's happening on the site. Banned members are submitting bids and commenting on listings despite what you're saying. Now maybe it's isolated incidents I'm seeing but it is happening nonetheless and it something that needs to be resolved.