"Rent-A-Site" concept - Does it still work well?

[fuzzy_corleone]

Here is an article I read about the Penguin update (not my site): http://too2web.com/web411/150-solut...hm-update-for-over-optimization-and-more.html

You might want to consider these factors when trying to rank your rent-a-site. My guess is that SEO will only become much more difficult in the future since google seems to want to combat black hat seo with their constant algorithm updates. The best time for the rent-a-site model, I believe, is now more than ever. My plan is to start offline marketing now and use the money to invest in non-IM ventures so that I won't be a slave to google.

Surviving in the IM game requires that you adapt to the constant changes that lie ahead. I'm a lazy piece of shit so I'd rather have it easy. But that's just me.

 

[SuperNoobInc]

Take a look at this: http://www.housepaintertauranga.co.nz
Not my site.

This is a good example and this is exactly what I am curious about
A layout like that probably dont impress a lot of companies (at least from my research),
i think they want something like this instead;

http://www.cunninghamduct.com/ (not my site - replace the 0 with o)

My plan is to actually create a 'corporate' layout / design, with generic images.
Rank it blah blah blah, then rent it out. After that, the images can be replaced easily, address can be change.
And the site itself CAN actually be their main website. It will look professional etc.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[knockoutlocal]

It's all about the niche and your sales pitch. I noticed some niches such as contracting can always use more business. I deal with 3 niches: plumbers, attorneys, bail bonds.

-I create a clean looking 5-7 page site with an application "above the fold."
-I set up local seo and I can usually get it ranked within 3 months
-I also market the yelp page and avvo for attorneys. A lot of customers trust these pages more than business websites especially if you have 10+ reviews.
-I use hostednumbers and I have them change the callerid to reflect the number I used for the listing so I know where each call is coming from
-Usually even before you start ranking well you'll get some calls trickling in especially if your yelp page gets pushed up.
-I call local plumbers/attorneys/bailbondsmen and say "hey this is xxxx, I own a plumbing website and I have a customer that would like some work done on his house, would you like to take this job?" (This makes is less of a sales call and they treat you like a potential customer) They'll usually say "wait what where are you from?" Then I know I got them curious and I reel them in. I just tell them about the site again and then I give them the customers phone number and say he's expecting their call. Before I hang up I say "let me know how it works goes with the customer, also if you want to setup something long term call me." Again, put yourself in their shoes- Somebody calls you with a referral, practically handing you money, you're more inclined to listen to what they have to say.
-Nearly 100% of the time they'll call me back and I usually work out either a monthly payment that varies depending on the city or a cut off the backend.
-Attorneys aren't allowed to pay per case that gets referred to them but they usually don't mind paying on the backend as long as they group it into a monthly "marketing" payment.
-I usually get more money on getting commission per client and I don't mind doing it. I have a guy that answers all the calls for me and watches the e-mails so we keep a log of everything. At the end of the month we compare our log with what the business owner gives us and if there's a discrepancy my guy will call them up and say "hi I'm from xxx and I just wanted to see how the service was with us." I haven't had any business owners screw me over on the backend commission to this day but I still check regardless just to be safe.

I know it seems like a lot of work but it's a LOT more money and it separates you from the other seo guys that call with the same sales pitch.

 

[fuzzy_corleone]

It's all about the niche and your sales pitch. I noticed some niches such as contracting can always use more business. I deal with 3 niches: plumbers, attorneys, bail bonds.

-I create a clean looking 5-7 page site with an application "above the fold."
-I set up local seo and I can usually get it ranked within 3 months
-I also market the yelp page and avvo for attorneys. A lot of customers trust these pages more than business websites especially if you have 10+ reviews.
-I use hostednumbers and I have them change the callerid to reflect the number I used for the listing so I know where each call is coming from
-Usually even before you start ranking well you'll get some calls trickling in especially if your yelp page gets pushed up.
-I call local plumbers/attorneys/bailbondsmen and say "hey this is xxxx, I own a plumbing website and I have a customer that would like some work done on his house, would you like to take this job?" (This makes is less of a sales call and they treat you like a potential customer) They'll usually say "wait what where are you from?" Then I know I got them curious and I reel them in. I just tell them about the site again and then I give them the customers phone number and say he's expecting their call. Before I hang up I say "let me know how it works goes with the customer, also if you want to setup something long term call me." Again, put yourself in their shoes- Somebody calls you with a referral, practically handing you money, you're more inclined to listen to what they have to say.
-Nearly 100% of the time they'll call me back and I usually work out either a monthly payment that varies depending on the city or a cut off the backend.
-Attorneys aren't allowed to pay per case that gets referred to them but they usually don't mind paying on the backend as long as they group it into a monthly "marketing" payment.
-I usually get more money on getting commission per client and I don't mind doing it. I have a guy that answers all the calls for me and watches the e-mails so we keep a log of everything. At the end of the month we compare our log with what the business owner gives us and if there's a discrepancy my guy will call them up and say "hi I'm from xxx and I just wanted to see how the service was with us." I haven't had any business owners screw me over on the backend commission to this day but I still check regardless just to be safe.

I know it seems like a lot of work but it's a LOT more money and it separates you from the other seo guys that call with the same sales pitch.

How exactly does capturing the lead work though? Someone calls the number on your site and you're like, "Hey I'm not an actual dentist just some random internet marketer. However I can forward your call to a real dentist". My apologies if this is a dumb question I haven't given lead-gen any serious thought (way too focused on the easier rent-a-side model).


When the dentist acquires a new client through your service I'd imagine you get a percentage. What percentage would be considered 'normal' or reasonable? What if the dentist underreports the client's worth (patient comes in for a $5,000 procedure but the dentist lied to you and says he's worth $1,000)?


Lots of things could go wrong here.

 

[knockoutlocal]

How exactly does capturing the lead work though? Someone calls the number on your site and you're like, "Hey I'm not an actual dentist just some random internet marketer. However I can forward your call to a real dentist". My apologies if this is a dumb question I haven't given lead-gen any serious thought (way too focused on the easier rent-a-side model).


When the dentist acquires a new client through your service I'd imagine you get a percentage. What percentage would be considered 'normal' or reasonable? What if the dentist underreports the client's worth (patient comes in for a $5,000 procedure but the dentist lied to you and says he's worth $1,000)?


Lots of things could go wrong here.

We're given a list of questions to ask the customer so we represent the biz owner.

When we do our QA calls at the end of the month we ask the customer what type of service they received.

The percentages range for each niche. I have a good idea of what the costs are for each niche and what they're used to spending on marketing so I adjust accordingly. For bail bondsmen I usually ask for 15%. If they write 10 bail bonds in a month at 20k each that's 200k in bail. They get 10% commission = 20k. Out of that 10% goes to the surety company so 18k is left. Another 20-30% of that is eaten up by an escrow account for bad bonds so they're down to 15k. They pay me out 15% and now they're down to 11,500 to cover expenses and the rest they keep.

For attorneys I charge 10% usually but the volume is pretty low. A typical dui attorney will charge 1,500-2,500 for a dui. With a good ranking spot on local they can get about 3+ cases a month. Again it depends on the city and how the attorney represents himself. I try to pick attorneys that have about 3-7 years of experience. Usually they're a few years removed from law school and know their way around a courtroom but they're not so established that they don't need internet marketing. I have another site that just does legal filings county wide and I do a 40% split. The attorney literally fills out a sheet of paper and mails it out and makes about $150 each time so it makes a lot of sense for him and me.

I really feel like selling a business owner is the easy part because you already have the website. Usually they're the ones that are on your nuts so it's actually up to you who you want to send leads to. For most business owners, the hardest part isn't actually doing the work- it's trying to pick up business. With your service, that's a huge load off their shoulders. The reason why a lot of business owners don't like seo marketers is because it's always the same old pitch- monthly payment up front.. we can't guarantee results... etc.

There's a company in my state that ran this same model referring business to solar contractors a few years back. They made so much money they ended up hiring their own installers and now they're one of the biggest names in the solar contracting business... by the way that's not a bad niche to hit too as it's not too saturated.

 

[SuperNoobInc]

We're given a list of questions to ask the customer so we represent the biz owner.

When we do our QA calls at the end of the month we ask the customer what type of service they received.

The percentages range for each niche. I have a good idea of what the costs are for each niche and what they're used to spending on marketing so I adjust accordingly. For bail bondsmen I usually ask for 15%. If they write 10 bail bonds in a month at 20k each that's 200k in bail. They get 10% commission = 20k. Out of that 10% goes to the surety company so 18k is left. Another 20-30% of that is eaten up by an escrow account for bad bonds so they're down to 15k. They pay me out 15% and now they're down to 11,500 to cover expenses and the rest they keep.

For attorneys I charge 10% usually but the volume is pretty low. A typical dui attorney will charge 1,500-2,500 for a dui. With a good ranking spot on local they can get about 3+ cases a month. Again it depends on the city and how the attorney represents himself. I try to pick attorneys that have about 3-7 years of experience. Usually they're a few years removed from law school and know their way around a courtroom but they're not so established that they don't need internet marketing. I have another site that just does legal filings county wide and I do a 40% split. The attorney literally fills out a sheet of paper and mails it out and makes about $150 each time so it makes a lot of sense for him and me.

I really feel like selling a business owner is the easy part because you already have the website. Usually they're the ones that are on your nuts so it's actually up to you who you want to send leads to. For most business owners, the hardest part isn't actually doing the work- it's trying to pick up business. With your service, that's a huge load off their shoulders. The reason why a lot of business owners don't like seo marketers is because it's always the same old pitch- monthly payment up front.. we can't guarantee results... etc.

There's a company in my state that ran this same model referring business to solar contractors a few years back. They made so much money they ended up hiring their own installers and now they're one of the biggest names in the solar contracting business... by the way that's not a bad niche to hit too as it's not too saturated.

Thanks for the info.
I am wondering how big your 'rent-a-site' network is? (ie: how many sites do you have?)
and how long does it usually take for you to rent them out?

Thx again

 

[knockoutlocal]

Usually within a month or two. I build them in batches usually 10 at a time. I have an imacros script that installs all domains/wordpress on cpanel. I recently discovered managewp so I built another imacros script to install managewp on all the domains (today was the first time using managewp so it's still a bit new to me). I was able to setup 10 websites at once today. Much easier than before. I have 40 sites but some of them are directory sites for the niche. I install Google rich snippets on there and it helps add another pages to the SERPS because they rank easily. So if I have a plumbing site I promote the site, yelp page, insiderpage, and directory site page. That way I have 4+ pages on the 1st page of google with Gold stars. I have one finance site that covers a bunch of cities and I spent a lot of money developing it and doing seo on it. The lender covers 15 states so I can use the one site to hit up all the big cities. Only problem is... I got hit with an unnatural link penalty on February and that broke my heart. I was able to maintain some good traffic because I had local listings in every city I was hitting but after the recent google+ local change they each dropped 3-4 spots in the local pack (maybe related to penalty but not sure).

Anyways I'm rambling now... but I hope that answered the questions.

 

[Raevinn]

I deal with 3 niches: plumbers, attorneys, bail bonds.

Any specific reason why you use those specific niches?

 

[Psychobilly1]

Knockoutlocal, how are you getting Google Places/+ Local listings? What addresses are you using? I'm doing something similar to you, but just organically ranking sites. I have not had much luck with fake listings.

 

[SuperNoobInc]

Usually within a month or two. I build them in batches usually 10 at a time. I have an imacros script that installs all domains/wordpress on cpanel. I recently discovered managewp so I built another imacros script to install managewp on all the domains (today was the first time using managewp so it's still a bit new to me). I was able to setup 10 websites at once today. Much easier than before. I have 40 sites but some of them are directory sites for the niche. I install Google rich snippets on there and it helps add another pages to the SERPS because they rank easily. So if I have a plumbing site I promote the site, yelp page, insiderpage, and directory site page. That way I have 4+ pages on the 1st page of google with Gold stars. I have one finance site that covers a bunch of cities and I spent a lot of money developing it and doing seo on it. The lender covers 15 states so I can use the one site to hit up all the big cities. Only problem is... I got hit with an unnatural link penalty on February and that broke my heart. I was able to maintain some good traffic because I had local listings in every city I was hitting but after the recent google+ local change they each dropped 3-4 spots in the local pack (maybe related to penalty but not sure).

Anyways I'm rambling now... but I hope that answered the questions.

Sounds like an amazing setup and structure.
I havent used managewp before, but when you said building 10 websites at once using script, does that mean you're cloning each site etc.?
Same template, same plugins on same cpanel etc?

If so, wouldnt that rise the flag somehow?
Have you ever thought about building these sites on different hosting, using different layouts, different plugins etc.
So eventually, you will end up with a small-private-local network at the same time?

Its like killing 2 birds in 1 stone?

 

[12inchpianist]

I have 72 dentists that I sell products to so I know what am talking about when I say dentists are hard to deal with

How do you pitch them? I have a few martial arts sites and a couple of dentist sites and I've been doing it the hard way and calling them. Do you have a better way than face to face or a phone call? Thanks in advance.

 

[12inchpianist]

Sorry about the double post. It's been awhile since I've been back and I'm having trouble getting acquainted with the new look.

I got hit with an unnatural link penalty on February and that broke my heart.

How did you find out about the unnatural link penalty? I'm still a noob at a lot of things. Did Google send you an email?

I have a few home improvement oriented websites and after reading your post I decided to make some calls. The very first call I made looks like it's going to turn into some real money. I started with the commission model and towards the end he was leaning towards the lease model. I'd rather do the commission based on the money potential.

 

[SuperNoobInc]

Sorry about the double post. It's been awhile since I've been back and I'm having trouble getting acquainted with the new look.



How did you find out about the unnatural link penalty? I'm still a noob at a lot of things. Did Google send you an email?

I have a few home improvement oriented websites and after reading your post I decided to make some calls. The very first call I made looks like it's going to turn into some real money. I started with the commission model and towards the end he was leaning towards the lease model. I'd rather do the commission based on the money potential.

Congratz on landing a potential client.
If you dont mind, can you elaborate your process a little?

How did you find those clients? Scraped from yellowpages? Google Places etc.?
and whats your pricing model?

Thanks

 

[12inchpianist]

Congratz on landing a potential client.
If you dont mind, can you elaborate your process a little?

How did you find those clients? Scraped from yellowpages? Google Places etc.?
and whats your pricing model?

Thanks

I made a total of 2 calls.

I googled "energy efficient windows". Then I looked at the adwords listings and found what appeared to be a local, family owned operation. When I went to their website it looked kind of like something I would build and lease so when I called I asked the owner if he was leasing the website. He said no, so we continued. Talking to the owner is key here because I don't want to deal with a company who has to have a board meeting to make a decision.

I quickly asked him this question: If I could send you leads for your business would you pay me a commission? If he answers no to that question then I know I'm speaking to an idiot or I'm speaking to someone who has way too much business (and I found a great niche).

Next question: What is your average ticket?

Then: What would you pay me for each job? I liked every answer. He told me Service Magic was charging him $61 a lead. I told him if I charged per lead then it would be quite a bit more than that because he would be exclusive. Then I shifted the conversation away from per lead and went back to commission.

Here's the deal. I have windows, roofing, and a few other related websites that are sitting around collecting digital dust because I've been involved in other projects. I decided to take knockoutlocal's advice and try the commission per lead model because the reward is higher. In the past I didn't want to screw around with that because I didn't want to have to track everything. I just set sites up and charged a monthly fee.

Frank (the owner) and I talked about a 10-15% commission for ever closed deal. I don't do any closing, I just send him the leads. Then we will get together once a month to go over leads vs deals closed. I get paid when the contract is signed. Avg jobs are about $30,000. Even if I get him a fence lead (which is very low ticket size) and it turns into a siding deal I get paid on the entire job.

If I ever catch him screwing me, which I don't think will happen with this guy, then he knows I can take my sites and point them elsewhere. I hit the jackpot with this guy. He was local, he's involved in every job he does, and he has sales reps. So, he's not too big, and he's not too small. Plus, he doesn't market on Craigslist or Facebook...

Then I called a roofer that I went to school with and he's going to pay me 20% of the profit which is normally $5,000 to $8,000.

I never liked this model in the past but after talking to a kitchen and bath cabinet guy last month (he offered me 9% per job, avg job $30,000) and reading knockoutlocal's post I thought I'd give it a try. Since I finished my last project I'll have more time on my hands to devote to this stuff.

 

[44proseries]

Of course it works. The question should be: Do you have the sales skills to sell the concept?

Most failure is due to the lack of ability to sell. IMO.

 

[brainstorm1]

Absolutely correct. The hardest part about this is selling to offline clients. Otherwise it's easy.

 

[SuperNoobInc]

Of course it works. The question should be: Do you have the sales skills to sell the concept?

Most failure is due to the lack of ability to sell. IMO.

Absolutely correct. The hardest part about this is selling to offline clients. Otherwise it's easy.

I appreciate your input, but man..
thats like saying ANYTHING in the world works, as look as you are dedicated, motivated, able to smooth talk etc.

What you said is absolutely correct and i do agree, but I think its everyone's best interest to read more about successful / failure stories etc.
You know.. share your experience and more.

Thanks anyways

 

[Typlo]

Rent of Site Works.

One of the simple ways for people with patience...get a site up, let it age, get it to #1 casually, then rent it.

Keys I've found.

1) Generic Service businesses (no retail)
2) Higher dollar
3) Transfer phones for a while to show potential renter it works (risk reversal).

Make sure to have contract that you own the site, not them, keep the contract simple, but cover all the basics.

 

[dantob]

I made a total of 2 calls.

I googled "energy efficient windows". Then I looked at the adwords listings and found what appeared to be a local, family owned operation. When I went to their website it looked kind of like something I would build and lease so when I called I asked the owner if he was leasing the website. He said no, so we continued. Talking to the owner is key here because I don't want to deal with a company who has to have a board meeting to make a decision.

I quickly asked him this question: If I could send you leads for your business would you pay me a commission? If he answers no to that question then I know I'm speaking to an idiot or I'm speaking to someone who has way too much business (and I found a great niche).

Next question: What is your average ticket?

Then: What would you pay me for each job? I liked every answer. He told me Service Magic was charging him $61 a lead. I told him if I charged per lead then it would be quite a bit more than that because he would be exclusive. Then I shifted the conversation away from per lead and went back to commission.

Here's the deal. I have windows, roofing, and a few other related websites that are sitting around collecting digital dust because I've been involved in other projects. I decided to take knockoutlocal's advice and try the commission per lead model because the reward is higher. In the past I didn't want to screw around with that because I didn't want to have to track everything. I just set sites up and charged a monthly fee.

Frank (the owner) and I talked about a 10-15% commission for ever closed deal. I don't do any closing, I just send him the leads. Then we will get together once a month to go over leads vs deals closed. I get paid when the contract is signed. Avg jobs are about $30,000. Even if I get him a fence lead (which is very low ticket size) and it turns into a siding deal I get paid on the entire job.

If I ever catch him screwing me, which I don't think will happen with this guy, then he knows I can take my sites and point them elsewhere. I hit the jackpot with this guy. He was local, he's involved in every job he does, and he has sales reps. So, he's not too big, and he's not too small. Plus, he doesn't market on Craigslist or Facebook...

Then I called a roofer that I went to school with and he's going to pay me 20% of the profit which is normally $5,000 to $8,000.

I never liked this model in the past but after talking to a kitchen and bath cabinet guy last month (he offered me 9% per job, avg job $30,000) and reading knockoutlocal's post I thought I'd give it a try. Since I finished my last project I'll have more time on my hands to devote to this stuff.

Great job!

So on these sites that you have up were these just standard WP sites with a call to action (CTA) message at the top and a forwarding phone number on each site that you then forward to whichever business that leases your site? Can you give some more insight on how you have your sites setup for the rent a site model?

 

[12inchpianist]

Great job!

So on these sites that you have up were these just standard WP sites with a call to action (CTA) message at the top and a forwarding phone number on each site that you then forward to whichever business that leases your site? Can you give some more insight on how you have your sites setup for the rent a site model?

Look up "J@ck Mize".

I popped up a wp site with my phone number and a simple video. I'm going to tweak them a little for this new client. Meeting with him tomorrow.