Going To Court! What would U do?

[Stupid Smurf]

UPDATE:

I sent then exerts from the contract, pretty much making them feel they will lose and pay legal fees. I provided all the evidence.

They are offering $8,000 to end the contracts.

Should I take it or push for more !

You said you offered $14,000 and they are offering $8,000 to end the contract? Don't let any emotion cloud your decision or thoughts of trying to stick it to them. You could counter with something in between or accept that amount. The one question would be is your monthly fee based on the work done per month, or do you bust ass as you mention in the beginning, then work on maintaining rank and spread the fees out evenly? If the later is true, then mention that if you counter, if the former is true, I'd say just accept it. But as mentioned, it is really up to you.

Definitely put "out clauses" in your contracts from now on.

 

[ShadeDream]

UPDATE:

I sent then exerts from the contract, pretty much making them feel they will lose and pay legal fees. I provided all the evidence.

They are offering $8,000 to end the contracts.

Should I take it or push for more !

If I were you, I definitely don't have the experience you do but I would settle it at $8K. I think that's good enough and it'll save you a lot of time and hassle.

In the end if the in-house guy screws up they may come back to you for more business. If you sue them they'll definitely avoid you in the future.

 

[futurestic06]

if you have any agreement copy then you should go to the court. but if you don't have any document then i think it would just be waste of time and money

 

[meatro]

Like others have said (oxonbeef), if you are wanting to argue over *future* revenue then just walk away. You're going to spend much more than $20,000 on legal fees, it'll easily take more than a year and there's a good chance that you will run out of money before they do. To be honest, it's a shame, but that's the American court system, buddy.

Whoever can afford to keep the case going the longest is generally going to win. This is why 'chilling effects' have been such a big deal recently.. If you write a bad review about my company online and I have a company lawyer.. I just have him threaten to sue you for tens of thousands, you get scared and remove the bad reviews. Or you fight it and I win by default because half way through the trial your attorney is going to be dismissed because you can't afford him anymore.

Now.. Another thing to take into consideration is how airtight is your contract? I know you say it's strong, but have you had an attorney check it out? Did you have an attorney write it? Otherwise, are you entirely familiar with the laws in place that govern this area? If you messed up on one key part of the contract, they may have spotted that and ended the contract because of it. An important thing to remember when you are writing a contract is that you cannot simply 'make up' your own laws. You can use the existing laws in place to protect your work/money.

Just because somebody agrees that if they violate my TOS, I can sue them for $20,000,000 doesn't mean I'm going to win a case for $20M when they violate. Because I'd sound like an idiot, citing pieces of my TOS in court instead of local/state/federal laws.

Another thing.. Are you local to them? If you are in N.Y. and they are in L.A., I hope you have a lot of money to fight this case.. Because it will be taking place in L.A. unless your contract states otherwise. A case must be heard at the local courthouse where the incident occurred. Since you are saying they breached your contract, the breach occurred in L.A. That may be another thing they are looking at.

Lastly, did you breach the contract in any way? Did you maybe promise white hat methods and unleash a SENuke X campaign or a bunch of Fiverr gigs?

 

[Kosher1]

If they're offering you money at this point you definitely SHOULDN'T go to court. As someone earlier explained this can harm your reputation and you will lose a lot of time and money pursuing this, it's not worth it.

Regarding if you should take it, you're the only one that can decide that, but if they're trying to settle you shouldn't think about court.

How can it hurt my reputation ?

Going to court is the only reason they are putting money on the table, in fear of losing more.

Thanks for the great input.

 

[ct2272]

If they are willing to settle and you haven't done any future work then I'd take it and walk. At least they are making an offer to settle.

I used to give 30 day net terms on the clients I had and that was one of the worst years of collecting invoices in my life. Now I just collect before the month starts and then I don't have to worry about extending credit or wasting my time. My clients knew (and it seemed to me like it was specific to South Florida where I lived) that anything less than $5k and it wasn't worth pursuing because that's the retainer for an attorney so in effect the lawsuit becomes a wash so they would try to run the bill up a lot which I never allowed.

Before an attorney I would try to go through a collections agency. Those guys are relentless and are good to have on your side. That being said, the $8k settlement would probably be the amount you would get since they try to settle as well and you'd end up less after they take their fees which is usually 30-50%.

Don't push it, take their counter offer and walk while they still want to talk with you. Non responsive clients will only deal with lawsuits at that point.

 

[ryannull]

UPDATE:

I sent then exerts from the contract, pretty much making them feel they will lose and pay legal fees. I provided all the evidence.

They are offering $8,000 to end the contracts.

Should I take it or push for more !

I would personally settle for $8,000. You can always counter and say give me $10,000.

Don't get greedy. ANYTHING can happen in court. You could end up with nothing.

Yeah yeah. Everyone will say, you have the contract and blah blah blah. You may have enough to win the case, but all it is going to take is one shadey thing in your past to be used against you, and it's over.

Any good lawyer will tell you to settle before trial.

 

[Kosher1]

You said you offered $14,000 and they are offering $8,000 to end the contract? Don't let any emotion cloud your decision or thoughts of trying to stick it to them. You could counter with something in between or accept that amount. The one question would be is your monthly fee based on the work done per month, or do you bust ass as you mention in the beginning, then work on maintaining rank and spread the fees out evenly? If the later is true, then mention that if you counter, if the former is true, I'd say just accept it. But as mentioned, it is really up to you.

Definitely put "out clauses" in your contracts from now on.

Yup. Thnx. I'm going to have a strong out clause for the future. Great advice.

 

[Kosher1]

Like others have said (oxonbeef), if you are wanting to argue over *future* revenue then just walk away. You're going to spend much more than $20,000 on legal fees, it'll easily take more than a year and there's a good chance that you will run out of money before they do. To be honest, it's a shame, but that's the American court system, buddy.

Whoever can afford to keep the case going the longest is generally going to win. This is why 'chilling effects' have been such a big deal recently.. If you write a bad review about my company online and I have a company lawyer.. I just have him threaten to sue you for tens of thousands, you get scared and remove the bad reviews. Or you fight it and I win by default because half way through the trial your attorney is going to be dismissed because you can't afford him anymore.

Now.. Another thing to take into consideration is how airtight is your contract? I know you say it's strong, but have you had an attorney check it out? Did you have an attorney write it? Otherwise, are you entirely familiar with the laws in place that govern this area? If you messed up on one key part of the contract, they may have spotted that and ended the contract because of it. An important thing to remember when you are writing a contract is that you cannot simply 'make up' your own laws. You can use the existing laws in place to protect your work/money.

Just because somebody agrees that if they violate my TOS, I can sue them for $20,000,000 doesn't mean I'm going to win a case for $20M when they violate. Because I'd sound like an idiot, citing pieces of my TOS in court instead of local/state/federal laws.

Another thing.. Are you local to them? If you are in N.Y. and they are in L.A., I hope you have a lot of money to fight this case.. Because it will be taking place in L.A. unless your contract states otherwise. A case must be heard at the local courthouse where the incident occurred. Since you are saying they breached your contract, the breach occurred in L.A. That may be another thing they are looking at.

Lastly, did you breach the contract in any way? Did you maybe promise white hat methods and unleash a SENuke X campaign or a bunch of Fiverr gigs?

Thank you very much for all the details. We are in the same city and state for arguments sake. I did the work of busting my ass the first four months knowing I will be on cruise control for the remainder of the contract but they don't seem to understand that and feel they paid me monthly for the monthly work I have done for them. They can't seem to understand the concept of SEO and the work involved in getting a site ranked.

I agree and will try to avoid going to court or arbitration, but you know sometimes these jerks and just gets to you. I hear you loud and clear about keeping my emotion out of it!! Easily said than done.

My contract was written by an attorney. It is very strong and valid.

Thanks for the great information you have provided and the time you have taken out of your valuable day to post this message. I will take a lot of information and utilize it.

Cheers!

 

[Kosher1]

If they are willing to settle and you haven't done any future work then I'd take it and walk. At least they are making an offer to settle.

I used to give 30 day net terms on the clients I had and that was one of the worst years of collecting invoices in my life. Now I just collect before the month starts and then I don't have to worry about extending credit or wasting my time. My clients knew (and it seemed to me like it was specific to South Florida where I lived) that anything less than $5k and it wasn't worth pursuing because that's the retainer for an attorney so in effect the lawsuit becomes a wash so they would try to run the bill up a lot which I never allowed.

Before an attorney I would try to go through a collections agency. Those guys are relentless and are good to have on your side. That being said, the $8k settlement would probably be the amount you would get since they try to settle as well and you'd end up less after they take their fees which is usually 30-50%.

Don't push it, take their counter offer and walk while they still want to talk with you. Non responsive clients will only deal with lawsuits at that point.

Excellent points thank you very much, I am not greedy and I do want to settle I am just trying to get the most I can out of it, naturally.

Yes I also take payment upfront no more of these games chasing for money that is the worst. They most I extend is two months and then I go crazy.

Cheers!

 

[Kosher1]

I would personally settle for $8,000. You can always counter and say give me $10,000.

Don't get greedy. ANYTHING can happen in court. You could end up with nothing.

Yeah yeah. Everyone will say, you have the contract and blah blah blah. You may have enough to win the case, but all it is going to take is one shadey thing in your past to be used against you, and it's over.

Any good lawyer will tell you to settle before trial.

Thank you for the great advice I will definitely consider it and it is the direction I am going in.

I just wish the contract never canceled like anyone else but life goes on. There are many clients out there that can appreciate hard work unlike these imbeciles.

Cheers!!

 

[ajithrocksca]

Well.... there are many lawyers who get paid a percentage (if and only if they win the case), and you can sue them if you are willing to go that extra mile.

The reason is, instead of working your ass off for them, you could have tried to get another client had the contract was not for 12 months. What is the purpose of having a contract if one party is not honoring it.

However I don't know anything about the termination clause in your contract. You take the contract to a lawyer, and get his advise. It is not going to cost a penny, because most lawyers don't charge for initial consultation.

 

[Kosher1]

Well.... there are many lawyers who get paid a percentage (if and only if they win the case), and you can sue them if you are willing to go that extra mile.

The reason is, instead of working your ass off for them, you could have tried to get another client had the contract was not for 12 months. What is the purpose of having a contract if one party is not honoring it.

However I don't know anything about the termination clause in your contract. You take the contract to a lawyer, and get his advise. It is not going to cost a penny, because most lawyers don't charge for initial consultation.

Thanks for the time you have taken to Mark on this comment. I will see this week if we can settle and if not I am definitely taking your advice and showing the contractor an attorney.

Thnx!!

 

[meatro]

For sure collect any settlement they're willing to make that is acceptable/fair to you. $8,000 seems acceptable as there's what, $12,000 left on the contract? They're willing to pay you 75% of that, that isn't shabby considering it's for work you'll never have to do.

But also definitely start collecting up front. I learned this the hard way, too with website design. When I first started offering freelance, I would bill people once the work was completed. It took once for me to get burned that I started charging 50% up front and once I got burnt for that, too.. I will not start a project unless I am paid in full up front.

 

[Kosher1]

You know what pisses me off the most here is that this company fired 2 old SEO people before me I am the third one........

Can't make them happy eh?




Life is too short for anger!

 

[manny521]

UPDATE:

I sent then exerts from the contract, pretty much making them feel they will lose and pay legal fees. I provided all the evidence.

They are offering $8,000 to end the contracts.

Should I take it or push for more !

You might be able to get a little bit more, but this is a very fair offer and you should strongly consider it...

If you can get them up to ten, then take it and move on...

 

[xxtoni]

How can it hurt my reputation ?

Going to court is the only reason they are putting money on the table, in fear of losing more.

Thanks for the great input.

Your future clients, knowing that you are sue-happy might not want to work with someone like you. I am in the print industry and if I told you how many people owe me money it would make your head spin. In your case the clients are just douchebags but you can have work with people who genuinely want to pay but just can't for one reason or another. This is part of doing business and you can't sue clients like that, it is bad business.

 

[starcity83]

Yes, you can sue for the remainder.