Google Penguin/Panda, Here is Another Case Study

[Robby54]

I was emailed this a few days ago, very informative post. Dori Friend (Part Owner of SEO Link Monster) did her own case study. Thought you guys might be interested, she brings some new insight on the whole penguin/panda updates. Please forgive me if this has already been posted.

http://www.seonitro.com/easyblog/entry/pandapenguin-case-study-analysis

 

[meta62]

That was a good read... Thanks for posting it.

 

[Expertpeon]

I was emailed this a few days ago, very informative post. Dori Friend (Part Owner of SEO Link Monster) did her own case study. Thought you guys might be interested, she brings some new insight on the whole penguin/panda updates. Please forgive me if this has already been posted.

http://www.seonitro.com/easyblog/entry/pandapenguin-case-study-analysis

Why is every person insisting that a few social shares can mean the difference between #1 in a niche and Page 7 continuing in these logical fallacies?
If it works, you have to start from a site and add signals, and then check results
You cannot do some kind of superficial analysis of top ranking sites and go "wow they have more signals than me!"

Correlation =/= causation.

 

[Robby54]

I still think there is some truth to this myth. The reason why is I tested it on my Non EMD domain which is 12 years old and had 0 backlinks. After a week from ordering social signals quite a few of my keywords started moving 20+ spots and no other SEO was done. This dose not make it an exact science but it dose seem to work on some sites/niche.

Why is every person insisting that a few social shares can mean the difference between #1 in a niche and Page 7 continuing in these logical fallacies?
If it works, you have to start from a site and add signals, and then check results
You cannot do some kind of superficial analysis of top ranking sites and go "wow they have more signals than me!"

Correlation =/= causation.

 

[_Chip_]

wow. Thats the longest SEO case study I have ever seen.

 

[Expertpeon]

I still think there is some truth to this myth. The reason why is I tested it on my Non EMD domain which is 12 years old and had 0 backlinks. After a week from ordering social signals quite a few of my keywords started moving 20+ spots and no other SEO was done. This dose not make it an exact science but it dose seem to work on some sites/niche.

What's more interesting is that every "top site" she checked on basically had 80%-90% paid links.
Blogrolls, or "unknown" (which are almost always blogposts or something along those lines)

<10% allocated to EVERYTHING else... so diversity clearly doesn't matter.

 

[Quickhotels]

I am afraid that Google is going to more or less only protect huge authority sites with many many years on their back and that are actually branded for what they sell. They probably already have a white list that is in the "can do anything link wise" category.

Question is still just the braking point of things. If someone can mimic the behavior of having 10+ staff, writing quality articles, doing white hat backlinks and in general promoting on FB, Google+ and Twitter, on a regular basis, as well as making the main site very authority alike, then I dont see how they can ever stop something like that.

Which means, we can automate the process, which means their algo update does squat, but is just better at catching pre-programmed scripts that have a tendency to overdo things. I actually think that overdoing is the keyword here. More is less these days, and one links from another authority site is worth much more than it ever was.

To put it bluntly, people with money cannot fail this, especially if they can pay their way to get established press sources to write nice blogs about their website. But then we are back again to the money factor and not so much to how anyone with 5$ can make a fortune. Looks like the ecosystem online will change as it has been with any other business. Only the rich and strong can survive, the rest will simply fade away or have their 5 min of fame.

EDIT: Crap links = Dead links = De-indexing (according to this repport). So we are talking quality links. Links with traffic, on high pr sites, with actual users, and not on a stuffed Wiki in sub category 5000

 

[Expertpeon]

Question is still just the braking point of things. If someone can mimic the behavior of having 10+ staff, writing quality articles, doing white hat backlinks and in general promoting on FB, Google+ and Twitter, on a regular basis, as well as making the main site very authority alike, then I dont see how they can ever stop something like that.

Which means, we can automate the process, which means their algo update does squat, but is just better at catching pre-programmed scripts that have a tendency to overdo things. I actually think that overdoing is the keyword here. More is less these days, and one links from another authority site is worth much more than it ever was.

To put it bluntly, people with money cannot fail this, especially if they can pay their way to get established press sources to write nice blogs about their website. But then we are back again to the money factor and not so much to how anyone with 5$ can make a fortune. Looks like the ecosystem online will change as it has been with any other business. Only the rich and strong can survive, the rest will simply fade away or have their 5 min of fame.

I think that is the solution the person should have come to, rather than "SOCIAL SOCIAL BUY OUR NETWORK LINKS"
Big firms are doing black hat techniques, building networks, and selling space on them (as well as buying links and doing guest posts they outsource).

Google cannot stop people from emulating anything... but what is clear is "buying your way to the top" is stronger than ever...
As long as you don't mind shelling out $30k on links to lose it all on a Penguin refresh.

 

[ficfroc]

I think that is the solution the person should have come to, rather than "SOCIAL SOCIAL BUY OUR NETWORK LINKS"
Big firms are doing black hat techniques, building networks, and selling space on them (as well as buying links and doing guest posts they outsource).

Google cannot stop people from emulating anything... but what is clear is "buying your way to the top" is stronger than ever...
As long as you don't mind shelling out $30k on links to lose it all on a Penguin refresh.

Absolutely fantastic , For those who aren't convinced with what expertpeon is saying you can google for iaquire scandal

 

[meneers]

It is naive to say "add social signals" and think your SEO woes are over. Remember, Google has a large team of smart people working on these problems, so let's all accept the Google SE has moved on a little bit since 2003. But I agree it could work under some conditions, but it's almost impossible to figure out what those conditions are.

Second, ask yourself: why would rank signals from a competitive business (Twitter, FB) so highly? They wouldn't. They can't control how Twitter or FB ranks things, so this would leave them exposed as a business.

Just my opinion, though, so take it on face value. Thanks for the link, OP.

 

[Robby54]

You have to keep in mind all google cares about is the user experience. Look at any major website and tell me do they not have a twitter and facebook account? Indeed they do, not only that but they have actual likes and retweets from real users. It would be rare to find a major site that dose not have a twitter or facebook profile. Also ask yourself, how many people do you know in real life who DO NOT have a twttier, facebook, or at least uses google +1.

Dont get me wrong, you can still rank without these, but why make life harder for yourself?

Matt Cutts said himself in this video that social siganls will play a factor and that it always did but he specifically pointed out that over time, google might be implementing it more. This video was made in 2010 and 2 years have passed. If people are seeing results from social signals that means what he said in the video is true. Google is giving more weight to sites with more social signals. It dose not mean you can rank on the first page just buy using them, but if you are stuck in the -100s or even -50 (or any position for that matter) in the search results and you have been diversifying your linking strategy, etc.. and still are not ranking where you think you should be then this should tell you one thing, you are missing a peace of the puzzle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofhwPC-5Ub4&feature=player_embedded

That is all this is, one big ass puzzle google put together and the more parts of the puzzle you have implemented in your sites, the better the picture (rankings) will be.

 

[Dresden14]

dont agree with their case study, read about 2k words so far. I got an emd that ranks 2. So their theory on emd's being history, incorrect...

 

[Robby54]

I still would not put all my domains in one basket (buy only purchasing emds only). Even though this is "Black Hat World" and its all about whats working now and not really the long term (at least for most people perspective) Just like with blog network, blog comments, etc.. All it takes is one update and you'll will be back scratching your head, trying to see what works again.

For example if you had a real brand like:

ooVoo.com : Instead of making a site like: video-conference-online.com

Tumbler.com : Instead of making a site like: easy-to-share-your-stuff.com

Once your sites reaches a level of authority you can rank for terms like: "video conference online" & "easy to share your stuff" without needing an IM. Only quality links and Good On Page SEO.

If you take a look at alexa all the big boys don't use EMD, They made their company a brand. The more your sites look and fell like a real company site, the more likely it will survive future updates.

Even though I hate to agree with Matt Cutts he dose have a point: "Don't worry about whats working today, Focus on sites that will last the test of time". So emd might be working today, but as soon as BH'ers start using this as a safe haven and begin abusing it like everything else, its back to square one again.

The pattern is kinda obvious, every time BH'er's all start using a method to the point where it get outta control, google always updates there algorithm. Most EMD I've seen also have some type of affiliate link (Not all of them). I really do think its just a matter of time though.