How Three Germans are Copying Startups and Making Billions

[jazzc]

@LakeForest

I think you got it all wrong.

Innovation is not required for trade or services. If I open a neighborhood coffee shop, I do not need innovation.

A site gets successful because it fills a need. Ebay filled a need and prospers. Now, if I open a local Ebay clone and compete with it, why on earth do I have to be innovative? All I have to do is compete with them - i.e. fill that need better,cheaper,whatever. Copying successful business models is how the economy works for the last 200 years...

They get bought out because that's the only legal avenue to stop them internationally

They can also compete with them, like they 're supposed to... Taking competitors down with "legal" means is not exactly boosting free market competition

 

[LakeForest]

@LakeForest

I think you got it all wrong.

Innovation is not required for trade or services. If I open a neighborhood coffee shop, I do not need innovation.

A site gets successful because it fills a need. Ebay filled a need and prospers. Now, if I open a local Ebay clone and compete with it, why on earth do I have to be innovative? All I have to do is compete with them - i.e. fill that need better,cheaper,whatever. Copying successful business models is how the economy works for the last 200 years...



They can also compete with them, like they 're supposed to... Taking competitors down with "legal" means is not exactly boosting free market competition

There are so many coffee shops, why would I choose a certain one? Marketing: A new flavor, a snazzy design, a creative way of purchasing (allowing a tab like at a bar). If every coffee shop was the same without offering anything new, most coffee shops would fail, as is natural.

but

If your coffee shop emulated a famous coffee shop from across the globe, like the bootleg 'starbucks' that are found in Japan and China, I'd be more inclined to shop there due to pretty much a brand bias/trademark recognition. Business is absolutely "to each, his own," and you can make your money however you choose, but if everyone copied everyone without adding something, we'd still be driving only black Model T Fords.

There are dozens of cellphones designed like the iPhone, but the iPhone itself was designed. It wasn't the first touch screen device, but the touch screen along with the app driven platform changed the game. Other companies add to the touchscreen design, but they have to add on to it otherwise there is no incentive to go anywhere but to the original. They change hardware, OS, app market, all to fill a need.

The profit and success is absolutely there in copying and pasting, but what I'm saying is it is disingenuous to single out those that do this as being great minds or entrepreneurial. It's a smart idea, but even the idea of copying is a copied one, and while it does bring a profit, it is not something I think most people would want to be remembered for. The businesses that changes the way the game is played are the businesses that become landmarks and are laudable. Twitter is essentially FB status updates, and it turned into nothing but a celebrity platform, a joke, and marketing tool. The money is there, but there is no soul. That isn't business to me.

Imagine if more people did this instead of research and development. Imagine if every clone site had an article written about them. Back in 04 when those "get a free iphone for completing 5 offers" were around, I helped make a forum that allowed you to trade offers. Other forums did the same thing, we copied the idea, and we were ranking beneath them. We added the ability to buy and sell the completion of offers instead of just trading, and we got on top. We had an article written about us in Wired I believe it was. My friend was ecstatic, this was his baby, but I found it uncomfortable considering what we had to do to get on top. (those offers were real btw. we shut down a ton of sites offering free products because they had to pay out so much. we had no idea we were doing incentive CPA back then and all sorts of shady statistic manipulation and marketing).

You don't need to innovate, but it does bring success. It is unwarranted to give commendation to those that copy/paste just because their ruthless business practices and distance from legal ramification made them a lot of money. Very reminiscent of the dotcom bubble.

 

[bushbabie21]

Ok, honestly i will say that on some level i agree with what sounds like your gut feeling of this not being a story of ingenuity or innovative triumph. However, i will say that even if when agreeing with your sentiment, one must acknowledge the art of actually following through with these clones. I have seen so many failed clones and have personally tried a few times to emulate existing platforms and its not an easy task. I guess this gives all the more credit to people that both come up with a new twist and create the platform without any guideposts...but there is a skill in being able to pull something like that off in the first place. Almost like being able to forge money. Although the best forgers in the world may not be coming up with a new idea, being able to replicate a painting or some currency is definitly an art form.

There are so many coffee shops, why would I choose a certain one? Marketing: A new flavor, a snazzy design, a creative way of purchasing (allowing a tab like at a bar). If every coffee shop was the same without offering anything new, most coffee shops would fail, as is natural.

but

If your coffee shop emulated a famous coffee shop from across the globe, like the bootleg 'starbucks' that are found in Japan and China, I'd be more inclined to shop there due to pretty much a brand bias/trademark recognition. Business is absolutely "to each, his own," and you can make your money however you choose, but if everyone copied everyone without adding something, we'd still be driving only black Model T Fords.

There are dozens of cellphones designed like the iPhone, but the iPhone itself was designed. It wasn't the first touch screen device, but the touch screen along with the app driven platform changed the game. Other companies add to the touchscreen design, but they have to add on to it otherwise there is no incentive to go anywhere but to the original. They change hardware, OS, app market, all to fill a need.

The profit and success is absolutely there in copying and pasting, but what I'm saying is it is disingenuous to single out those that do this as being great minds or entrepreneurial. It's a smart idea, but even the idea of copying is a copied one, and while it does bring a profit, it is not something I think most people would want to be remembered for. The businesses that changes the way the game is played are the businesses that become landmarks and are laudable. Twitter is essentially FB status updates, and it turned into nothing but a celebrity platform, a joke, and marketing tool. The money is there, but there is no soul. That isn't business to me.

Imagine if more people did this instead of research and development. Imagine if every clone site had an article written about them. Back in 04 when those "get a free iphone for completing 5 offers" were around, I helped make a forum that allowed you to trade offers. Other forums did the same thing, we copied the idea, and we were ranking beneath them. We added the ability to buy and sell the completion of offers instead of just trading, and we got on top. We had an article written about us in Wired I believe it was. My friend was ecstatic, this was his baby, but I found it uncomfortable considering what we had to do to get on top. (those offers were real btw. we shut down a ton of sites offering free products because they had to pay out so much. we had no idea we were doing incentive CPA back then and all sorts of shady statistic manipulation and marketing).

You don't need to innovate, but it does bring success. It is unwarranted to give commendation to those that copy/paste just because their ruthless business practices and distance from legal ramification made them a lot of money. Very reminiscent of the dotcom bubble.

 

[phlex]

Sure, morally thats not very cool. But lets face it, the actual point is not the copying... its making the copied site a success. Building up such a big market share that your company eventually gets bought by the original is not easy - and they have done it over and over again. That shows deep knowledge of marketing, the market and maintaining an huge extremely high quality business network. I think, that's quite impressive. Just by copying a site you don't generate millions of users/customers. That's the problem most guys here are actually facing - a lot of people can build a website... but getting loads of traffic / users on it is the harder part, isn't it?

 

[CoolAmp]

Yeah..."genius," and pretty much everything that's wrong with the business culture today.

Copy a working idea = success. Duh. This isn't new, it just takes a special kind of person with abysmally little integrity to do this.

If they actually innovated, there could be an argument for their ingenuity. Facebook copied other social network and ad platforms. Google copied search engines. But they made their respective enterprises better than what was out there already (myspace and yahoo).

These German shills are backstabbers and cowards that don't want to speak on record (read the article).

Sociopaths dude. Civilization needs less of these kinds of people.

well, that settles it then. there's those 3 brothers who have made billions copying other businesses. and then there's you with your..... scrapebox?

 

[LakeForest]

The brothers deserved to have gotten paid for generating the focused market they did, and if that was the theme of the article, it would have made for a much more interesting piece.

Honestly, I don't know if I'm bothered more by what the brothers did, or how it was reported by businessweek.

If any of your clones failed, it's because at some point you remembered your conscience and didn't believe in the authenticity of what you were doing. These guys didn't, and they succeeded. They pushed and pushed to ride coattails. That's business? We know that managers and executives get psychologically screened to see which are functional psychopaths. Is this what's needed these days? Doesn't seem healthy, and explains the status of our world currently.

People who use scrapebox like everyone else does who use cookie-cutter methods get slapped for being obvious and leaving easily accessible footprints when breaking the rules, so that was a bit of a moot point. Behind every great fortune is...you know how it goes. At least Vanderbilt connected a nation. Again, this story is just uninspiring and reads like a "you can be a popstar too! just follow these steps.."

Do we really need people thinking, "I'm money hungry, I'll develop a clone?" Do we really need more Fiverrs instead of a job site that does something different, something better?

I think pride, not labeling success in terms of dollars, and fear of the law is getting in my way of making $$$$$$$$$$. If only I lived in Germany :\

 

[bushbabie21]

@lakeforest...are you strictly into IM? Do you create any apps or companies? Just curious because obviously i dont know you but i assume you are the creative type.

 

[jon_xx_x]

Brilliant article.
That's what separates them from a) people who don't make money and b) people who make decent money. They find something that works, and push it to the limit and scale it 10000%.

 

[Isis]

Yes, you can replicate a masterpiece painting for the purpose of studying the artist's technique. You just can't sign your name to it.

I still say it is a fascinating article.

 

[NotTheDude]

AT LEAST since the first man observed other animals in the wild to learn successful means of survival, has this been a way of being more successful than a hit-or-miss-and-learn approach to problem solving.

I, for one, applaud and am in awe of these guys.

They may or may not be truly happy with themselves and are for sure making some enemies, but they are successful for a reason.

 

[Isis]

I can't wish them well, since they received part of their education in the USA, interned in Silicon Valley, then proceeded to go home to Germany and rip off American companies before The Americans could establish companies there...like eBay. Some might say they are modern day thieves.

Oh well...it will all work out. It always does. ja?

 

[smg930]

I agree! These guys made things happen...there are alot of clones out there, but not many make there way to the top...for that I have to tip my hat!