Zeek Rewards- Anyone tried it.

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People like you piss me off. Posting everything you said without proof or anything other than assumption. Clearly you think this is another scam and you should warn us fools.

Truth is I know at least shelterman and I have real knowledge of business. We both have real careers and are more than capable of doing actual research. Now allow me to enlighten you.

Obviously, you don't understand how it works. First off no one can just up and decide to withdraw everything one day. Points have no actual cash value, but allow us to convert more points into daily profit which either repurchase more bids or cash out.

Once again your lack of research is wrong again in terms of bid value and functionality. I definitely prefer a secure functional site over something pretty. Next off is your bid value assessment. The bids we give customers are free bids. These are only useable in free bid auctions and beginner auctions. Not useable in premier penny, VIP, premier VIP auctions, or any other. Therefore they do not flood the market and you are wrong again.


I won't respond to your other posts because they are just plain wrong and shelterman already answered them.

Now get out noob.
 
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Yes it IS 100% true. I admit that if the daily percentage drops down to .9% or less, growth will stop and even shrink, I've mentioned that on this thread.
If the rate drops below 1.12% you cannot recover your money with a 100% cashout if you have no affiliates signed up. If you have affiliates under you who are not cashing out but are re-buying more bids, then you can survive a slightly lower rate.

Since the points expire, and there is no way to withdraw your entire balance (like if you were investing in a HYIP), you are at full mercy of whatever the company decides to give for profit share.

The people who get in early (like any HYIP) ride a good rate for as long as the cash flow is positive. When the cash flow recedes, or in this case the profits relative to affiliates result in an average rate below 1.12%, you take a haircut on your point balance. If you've already double or tripled your balance, you will still cash out a good chunk of it and be profitable, but the gravy train ends at that point.

The claim of making "daily profit" is a little misleading in that you start out with a deficit balance. The points that you buy in cannot be withdrawn except over a 90-day period, a few % points per day, and not guaranteed to be above 1.12%.

Practically speaking, it will be hard to entice others to join unless the rate stays above 1.4%. Any income projects and point balance spreadsheets (all now disallowed by company's compliance dept) will not look very impressive unless you can show an average rate above 1.4%.

Realistically, if you put on your economics cap, how can the company continue to share such a high rate, especially as everyone's point balance keeps growing? The incoming retail profit has to peak at some point and when the balance between ever-compounding affiliate balances surpasses legitimate retail profits, the rate will drop. My prediction is the rate will drop suddenly, there will be the "sky is falling" mentality and everyone will start moving to to a higher cash ratio. This will impact profits even further, the rate will drop more, and you will start seeing 0.5% rate.

Did you know that at a 0.5% daily profit-share rate, after 90-days when your points expire, you've taken a 55% haircut on your balance? If your point balance is 1000 and the rate averages 0.5% over 90-days, and you move to 100% cash, you cash out $450.

However, you are basing all your statements on the assumption that the daily percentage will go down. You state "Up until now..." and "when the daily profit share drops, the jig is up." What has changed? The new compliance rules?
Firstly, I am basing my statement on the reality that the company cannot continue to offer profit share at the same rate, when the growth of affiliate point balance is out of balance with retail bid purchase.

The scales will tip, it's just basic economics. If you can't see how compounded daily interest, plus the incoming rush of MLM affiliates, will not dilute the profit share, you perhaps are being too optimistic (no offense intended).

Think about this, why can't you purchase more than a $10k share? Because they need distributed pool so they can manage the daily profit share rate. If the opportunity was that good, why not let me buy a $100k share?

Secondly, I'm basing my assessment on the fact that it's so difficult to buy affiliate VIP bids with a credit card. They don't take credit cards direct anymore (they claim fraud but that seems like a poor excuse to me, especially when they essentially have no cost for bids compared to a retail business like Staples where they ship physical products). So they have to resort to third party processors that live in the world of online gambling, HYIP, and other high risk, sometimes scammy business ventures. AlertPay lost its ability to accept Visa and MC a couple months ago, lost it's ability to accept AMEX last week. Search for AlertPay and see how often they lose their VISA/MC merchants. SolidTrustPay takes forever to verify now (try it and see) and charges a 6.9% + $1.50 fee.

Do you know of any other affiliate or MLM business that in order to participate you had to send in a check (with SSN and drivers license), or a money order/cashier's check and sign a statement saying it's not refundable?

There is risk if you want to "invest" money. If you only want to recruit others your investment will be more time, than money. I would be reluctant to buy in for the full 10k at this point as there's no guarantee you could recoup all of it.

If that is it, I'd say you are being WAY overly pessimistic. They're JUST NOW being inforced and I personally look at it as a positive move.
The vast majority of affiliates promoted the opportunity by doing one of the following: 1) sending out spreadsheets showing how income can grow, 2) talking about compounding interest, 3) showing their backoffice as evidence of compound growth, 4) showing copies of their checks as evidence of profit, 5) showing a copy of Todd Disner's YouTube video where he had account balances between 100 to 400k (depending on which video you saw, before corporate took them down).

I would LOVE to promote this if I could use the above tools. Now you can't do any of the above. It is all illegal.

Plus, now, all online material has to go through compliance. So if I create a blog network to promote this using BHW marketing methods, I have to send all of them through for compliance review first?

Nothing in business is a for sure thing, if one believes differently they are living in a dream world. This is exactly why I recommend to my recuits to always cash out their seed money (unless you don't mind the possibility of loosing it).
Agree with you here, completely. Unfortunately, this opportunity is being promoted as "daily profit" or "guaranteed profits" which is only true if the rate remains high. What's often not talked about is that your points expire in 90-days and that the rate has to remain high to become profitable.

Cashing out your seed money makes complete sense. The problem is you need to build a balance first. So if you join the program, you are betting on it being profitable for at least a few months so you can grow your balance high enough such that you can then switch to an 80/20 or 70/30 withdrawal and recover your money.

Now you could just wait until you hit some level, like 2-3x your initial balance, and then do 100% cashout. The problem there is while you will recover your seed money, your account balance will be so low it will take awhile to grow it back up. But at that point it is "house money", other than your monthly premium subscription which takes 150-days to recover (60-days to convert bonus points to VIP points, then 90-days to withdraw it).

You are posting here like you are saving us or "enlightening us". You're not telling us anything that we don't already know.
Far from it. I'm raising issues that few have mentioned, or haven't mentioned in great detail. For example, in your own reply you mentioned 0.9%. I would hope that as involved as you have been with the program, you've run Excel simulations and knew that the break-even rate based on 90-day points expiration is 1.12%.

I think I brought some value to the discussion. If the rate stays high for a year you guys will all kick butt. If it comes crashing down in a month or lack of credit card processing stifles growth, I've raised some good points. At minimum, any new affiliate joining should at least know about the credit card issues.
 
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If the rate drops below 1.12% you cannot recover your money with a 100% cashout if you have no affiliates signed up. If you have affiliates under you who are not cashing out but are re-buying more bids, then you can survive a slightly lower rate.

Since the points expire, and there is no way to withdraw your entire balance (like if you were investing in a HYIP), you are at full mercy of whatever the company decides to give for profit share.

The people who get in early (like any HYIP) ride a good rate for as long as the cash flow is positive. When the cash flow recedes, or in this case the profits relative to affiliates result in an average rate below 1.12%, you take a haircut on your point balance. If you've already double or tripled your balance, you will still cash out a good chunk of it and be profitable, but the gravy train ends at that point.

The claim of making "daily profit" is a little misleading in that you start out with a deficit balance. The points that you buy in cannot be withdrawn except over a 90-day period, a few % points per day, and not guaranteed to be above 1.12%.

Practically speaking, it will be hard to entice others to join unless the rate stays above 1.4%. Any income projects and point balance spreadsheets (all now disallowed by company's compliance dept) will not look very impressive unless you can show an average rate above 1.4%.

Realistically, if you put on your economics cap, how can the company continue to share such a high rate, especially as everyone's point balance keeps growing? The incoming retail profit has to peak at some point and when the balance between ever-compounding affiliate balances surpasses legitimate retail profits, the rate will drop. My prediction is the rate will drop suddenly, there will be the "sky is falling" mentality and everyone will start moving to to a higher cash ratio. This will impact profits even further, the rate will drop more, and you will start seeing 0.5% rate.

Did you know that at a 0.5% daily profit-share rate, after 90-days when your points expire, you've taken a 55% haircut on your balance? If your point balance is 1000 and the rate averages 0.5% over 90-days, and you move to 100% cash, you cash out $450.


Firstly, I am basing my statement on the reality that the company cannot continue to offer profit share at the same rate, when the growth of affiliate point balance is out of balance with retail bid purchase.

The scales will tip, it's just basic economics. If you can't see how compounded daily interest, plus the incoming rush of MLM affiliates, will not dilute the profit share, you perhaps are being too optimistic (no offense intended).

Think about this, why can't you purchase more than a $10k share? Because they need distributed pool so they can manage the daily profit share rate. If the opportunity was that good, why not let me buy a $100k share?

Secondly, I'm basing my assessment on the fact that it's so difficult to buy affiliate VIP bids with a credit card. They don't take credit cards direct anymore (they claim fraud but that seems like a poor excuse to me, especially when they essentially have no cost for bids compared to a retail business like Staples where they ship physical products). So they have to resort to third party processors that live in the world of online gambling, HYIP, and other high risk, sometimes scammy business ventures. AlertPay lost its ability to accept Visa and MC a couple months ago, lost it's ability to accept AMEX last week. Search for AlertPay and see how often they lose their VISA/MC merchants. SolidTrustPay takes forever to verify now (try it and see) and charges a 6.9% + $1.50 fee.

Do you know of any other affiliate or MLM business that in order to participate you had to send in a check (with SSN and drivers license), or a money order/cashier's check and sign a statement saying it's not refundable?

There is risk if you want to "invest" money. If you only want to recruit others your investment will be more time, than money. I would be reluctant to buy in for the full 10k at this point as there's no guarantee you could recoup all of it.


The vast majority of affiliates promoted the opportunity by doing one of the following: 1) sending out spreadsheets showing how income can grow, 2) talking about compounding interest, 3) showing their backoffice as evidence of compound growth, 4) showing copies of their checks as evidence of profit, 5) showing a copy of Todd Disner's YouTube video where he had account balances between 100 to 400k (depending on which video you saw, before corporate took them down).

I would LOVE to promote this if I could use the above tools. Now you can't do any of the above. It is all illegal.

Plus, now, all online material has to go through compliance. So if I create a blog network to promote this using BHW marketing methods, I have to send all of them through for compliance review first?


Agree with you here, completely. Unfortunately, this opportunity is being promoted as "daily profit" or "guaranteed profits" which is only true if the rate remains high. What's often not talked about is that your points expire in 90-days and that the rate has to remain high to become profitable.

Cashing out your seed money makes complete sense. The problem is you need to build a balance first. So if you join the program, you are betting on it being profitable for at least a few months so you can grow your balance high enough such that you can then switch to an 80/20 or 70/30 withdrawal and recover your money.

Now you could just wait until you hit some level, like 2-3x your initial balance, and then do 100% cashout. The problem there is while you will recover your seed money, your account balance will be so low it will take awhile to grow it back up. But at that point it is "house money", other than your monthly premium subscription which takes 150-days to recover (60-days to convert bonus points to VIP points, then 90-days to withdraw it).


Far from it. I'm raising issues that few have mentioned, or haven't mentioned in great detail. For example, in your own reply you mentioned 0.9%. I would hope that as involved as you have been with the program, you've run Excel simulations and knew that the break-even rate based on 90-day points expiration is 1.12%.

No where in any promotional material or discussion I see about this is there a discussion as to the risk of profit share dropping causing loss of initial investment. I only see promotion of the profit share and compound rate. And you have to dig really hard to discover that your points expire in 90-days.

I think I brought a fair amount of value to the discussion.


I think someone took an economics class in college! Honestly, you bring valid points to the table, but you are applying everything to this company as if it is destined to fail. They just made over $120,000 profit on the one $5000 auction yesterday. Somehow though, you don't seem to apply your basic math skills to that logic.

Now I completely agree with your statements being possible. Customer retention and profit margins are both things I brought up earlier in this thread. However, as of now the current business model is sound. When it reaches a so called tipping point as you think it will I'll be the first to say so.

Other than that do you ever think about why that are doing all of this work. Hiring new legal staff, service, and department members. Clearly expansion is on there mind.

Sadly, you once again do some fearmongering and pull up statistics that have no proof. Yes your percentages are right, but I don't think you are their business manager. You don't know how much they are making. Also, daily avg % has been going up indicative of success. They have also addressed the higher level members having extreme points and will be implementing some sort of capping system in the future.

Everything you brought up was right, but very wrong in this case. Join the company you might be surprised.


Edit:I take your insult on payment processors being offensive since you attack online poker and gambling. That's a whole other argument though. point is neither of these companies process payments to casino, sportsbook, or poker sites. I do agree the credit card thing is an issue. However, I find solidtrustpay to be decent enough. Slow yes.
 
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One thing i noticed when i look around in the backoffice , is that there are 3 days lower % than the other 4 . Isnt it only two days in a weekend or have i missed something ?
 
I think someone took an economics class in college! Honestly, you bring valid points to the table, but you are applying everything to this company as if it is destined to fail. They just made over $120,000 profit on the one $5000 auction yesterday. Somehow though, you don't seem to apply your basic math skills to that logic.

First of all, the company did not make $120,000 profit. You assume that all 120,000 bids resulted in $120,000 in purchases. How many of those bids were a result of BOGO offer (inflated 4x), or were part of the daily compounding. Let me give you an example to be clear. We both buy in for $1,000 and do nothing for 6-months. Ignoring monthly subscription for now, since you get that back in bonus points every 60-days, the company made $2,000 on us, and gave us 2000 VIP bids. If we do nothing but compound that for 6-months, at 1.48% average rate, we now have 5400 VIP bids each, or 10,800 total. If now they introduce a $3,000 giveaway, and let's say we are the only 2 customers and bid all our bids against each other. At the end of the auction, the price will be $108.00 for a $2,000 cash award. Someone coming along will look at that and say "wow, the company just took in $10,800 worth of bids for a $2,000 prize". But did they? If no new money gets put into the system, and we are using compounded bids, the company didn't make any money on us. In this example, they lost $1,000. Obviously the example is hypothetical but it goes to show that the value of a VIP bid is inflated.

Secondly, what does the company profit have to do with what I said about risk? Just because a company is profitable does not mean you as an affiliate promoting it are not taking risk (okay, obviously, I think we agree on that). For example, HYIP programs make the creator a TON of profit, and they make most who enter early a ton of profit. The risk belongs to those who join... join early enough you are fine, join later and you might get the short stick.

In this case, the company will be guaranteed to profit because they control the profit share.

That's all I'm saying folks. The profit share rate is not guaranteed, just like they aren't with HYIP. Just because the profit share is "linked" to the auction doesn't mean it will always be profitable. You need to account for the fact that affiliate point pools are doubling and tripling every few months. So if you enter for $1000 today, your % of the overall profit pool by % is much smaller than if you purchased $1000 6-months ago. The total points balance that competes for profit-share is 6x greater now than it was 6-months ago. Has the retail profit increased that much too? Or are they giving you profit share based on the affiliate buy-in + retail profit? At some point, the rate of affiliate buy-in flattens, does that mean the rate drops from 1.4 to ??

As for compliance and lawyers and all that, that's just the standard approach with any MLM program. Once you start hitting lots of growth you have increased risk of being on regulator and attorney general radar, so you hire the MLM law firms. Look at all of the MLM programs that have come and gone - they all did the same thing. In this case, ZR has to be extra cautious because their program has a lot more risk than traditional MLM. The designation of whether penny auctions is gambling or not has not been tested in the US. More significantly, the entire way that the program has been promoted to date has been illegal. ZR has itself used the terms that Compliance banned on 1/9, including the term "compounding" in their own terms & conditions.

Let me put it in a sample way... how many people joined ZR because say a spreadsheet or a YouTube video showing compound growth? If you send out a spreadsheet or show compound growth example, ZR will kick you out of the program. And perhaps more annoying is you can't post up with a credit card easily.
 
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One thing i noticed when i look around in the backoffice , is that there are 3 days lower % than the other 4 . Isnt it only two days in a weekend or have i missed something ?


Well you have to account for some people around the world being ahead of us in one. Also, some workers do half days on Friday. It has been discussed before, and a large amount of bidders are office workers just bidding while at work. Weekend comes and poof lots of bids gone.


sooted you bring some good points up, and you are free to believe what you want. All I know is that for people with very large accounts, even there profit share average has increased. Obviously, I would love to know the daily profit of the company, but we are just both making assumptions.

However, it is clear you the not done all your research. VIP retail bids for the bogo do not compound. They are only retail bids. Affiliates do not qualify, but do receive commissions and their own points.

As for all the legal stuff, I still see it as a good sign. The wording may have changed, but everything is the same.
 
First of all, the company did not make $120,000 profit. You assume that all 120,000 bids resulted in $120,000 in purchases. How many of those bids were a result of BOGO offer (inflated 4x), or were part of the daily compounding. Let me give you an example to be clear. We both buy in for $1,000 and do nothing for 6-months. Ignoring monthly subscription for now, since you get that back in bonus points every 60-days, the company made $2,000 on us, and gave us 2000 VIP bids. If we do nothing but compound that for 6-months, at 1.48% average rate, we now have 5400 VIP bids each, or 10,800 total. If now they introduce a $3,000 giveaway, and let's say we are the only 2 customers and bid all our bids against each other. At the end of the auction, the price will be $108.00 for a $2,000 cash award. Someone coming along will look at that and say "wow, the company just took in $10,800 worth of bids for a $2,000 prize". But did they? If no new money gets put into the system, and we are using compounded bids, the company didn't make any money on us. In this example, they lost $1,000. Obviously the example is hypothetical but it goes to show that the value of a VIP bid is inflated.

Secondly, what does the company profit have to do with what I said about risk? Just because a company is profitable does not mean you as an affiliate promoting it are not taking risk (okay, obviously, I think we agree on that). For example, HYIP programs make the creator a TON of profit, and they make most who enter early a ton of profit. The risk belongs to those who join... join early enough you are fine, join later and you might get the short stick.

In this case, the company will be guaranteed to profit because they control the profit share.

That's all I'm saying folks. The profit share rate is not guaranteed, just like they aren't with HYIP. Just because the profit share is "linked" to the auction doesn't mean it will always be profitable. You need to account for the fact that affiliate point pools are doubling and tripling every few months. So if you enter for $1000 today, your % of the overall profit pool by % is much smaller than if you purchased $1000 6-months ago. The total points balance that competes for profit-share is 6x greater now than it was 6-months ago. Has the retail profit increased that much too? Or are they giving you profit share based on the affiliate buy-in + retail profit? At some point, the rate of affiliate buy-in flattens, does that mean the rate drops from 1.4 to ??

Jeeze Soooted you would have to join our discussion on probably one of the busiest weekends that I've had in a while :)....

The problem with most of your projections is that you are extrapolating your projections from either misinformation or false assumptions (not sure which in your case). I only have time to only address the above false assumption, but the same problem occurs in most of your other statements.

What if I were to tell you that auctions that the auctions for cash are "Exclusive Auctions", and only retail customer VIP Bid purchases (bids that the CUSTOMER him/herself has purchased) can be used, not the free VIP Retail Bids that are given away by affiliates. I may stand corrected on this as I have not taken the time to look into it. But that is my understanding from a conference call I heard a few days ago. And this makes sense to me, otherwise if the auctions for cash were free to a retail customer, he/she probably wouldn't hesitate to spend more in bids than the value of the auction, and THAT would result in inflation.

My point is if I am correct on this (which I think I am), your statement that there is no outside money is not correct. In fact, the company states that the profit that determines our profit share is not even just from the auctions, it is from all of the ventures that fall under Lighthouse America, so there is lots of outside money coming in. Please do your research BEFORE making these statements.

Another point, and I HAVE TO go...why in the world would you, with your attitude of exposing ZR make the statement.... " The vast majority of affiliates promoted the opportunity by doing one of the following: 1) sending out spreadsheets showing how income can grow, 2) talking about compounding interest, 3) showing their backoffice as evidence of compound growth, 4) showing copies of their checks as evidence of profit, 5) showing a copy of Todd Disner's YouTube video where he had account balances between 100 to 400k (depending on which video you saw, before corporate took them down).

I would LOVE to promote this if I could use the above tools. Now you can't do any of the above. It is all illegal."

...THAT bumfuzzles me Sooted. ZR is trying to prevent the very thing that you are "exposing" and you criticise them for it? And in light of the fact that are convienced ZR is doomed to fail, you "would LOVE to promote this"?????? I'd say that is, at the very least a disingenous attitude. I REALLY look forward to your response to that.
 
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sooted you bring some good points up, and you are free to believe what you want. All I know is that for people with very large accounts, even there profit share average has increased. Obviously, I would love to know the daily profit of the company, but we are just both making assumptions.
Yes, I agree, and have also pointed out parallels to HYIP. The program always looks good until it doesn't. The fact that ZR goes to great pains to disclaim that the rate is not guaranteed means that eventually it will drop below break-even. The great question is we never know when, just like with any HYIP program. So the risk is entirely on the affiliate, and the single bet you are making beyond any other, is "will the rate stay profitable".

However, it is clear you the not done all your research. VIP retail bids for the bogo do not compound. They are only retail bids. Affiliates do not qualify, but do receive commissions and their own points.
Are you sure about that? Firstly, my point was that not all VIP bids in circulation are equivalent to $1 in revenue. I was using BOGO as an example of bonus/free/additional bids being put in the system.

Secondly, are you sure about your statement that BOBO VIP bids do not compound? An affiliate gets 2x VIP points of the amount purchased by the customer. Those are normal VIP points, and they compound... true?

From ZR News on the bogo:

Zeek has LOST HIS MIND Once Again!!! Buy-One-Get-One Free VIP Retail Bids @ Zeekler.com!! PLUS DOUBLE THE VIP POINTS on Retail Customer Bid Sales ONLY to the sponsoring affiliate!!
...
Effective immediately through midnight Jan 15th, 2012 you will receive DOUBLE the VIP BIDS to use in these incredible, exclusive auctions!!! Buy 100 VIP Bids for $100 and receive 100 bonus bids! Sell 100 VIP Bids for $100 to a RETAIL CUSTOMER...and receive 200 points!!! The time is NOW!!
Are you saying the 200 points you receive as an affiliate when a customers buys $100 during BOGO promo does not compound?
 
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The vast majority of affiliates promoted the opportunity by doing one of the following: 1) sending out spreadsheets showing how income can grow, 2) talking about compounding interest, 3) showing their backoffice as evidence of compound growth, 4) showing copies of their checks as evidence of profit, 5) showing a copy of Todd Disner's YouTube video where he had account balances between 100 to 400k (depending on which video you saw, before corporate took them down).

I would LOVE to promote this if I could use the above tools. Now you can't do any of the above. It is all illegal.

I wondered about this, too. I think, Scooted, you raise some valid points, but why would you want to promote this venture if you think it is going to crash? Are you just mad that now you can't promote it as you had planned?
 
Are you saying the 200 points you receive as an affiliate when a customers buys $100 during BOGO promo does not compound?

"Retail Customer Bid Sales" (the bids that the CUSTOMER PURCHASES)and "VIP Bids" (the bids that the AFFILIATE PURCHASES to GIVE AWAY) are NOT the same thing. And I'm sure they do this to head off some of the things that you are concerned with. PLUS there will be VIP Point caps in our future I'm sure of it. AGAIN, to address some of these problems. I'm active in several forums, but I'm sure WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THESE THINGS BEFORE IN THIS THREAD.
 
I wondered about this, too. I think, Scooted, you raise some valid points, but why would you want to promote this venture if you think it is going to crash? Are you just mad that now you can't promote it as you had planned?

Why would you join a HYIP program if you knew that all HYIP programs, by definition, eventually fail? The key is to get in early and ride the upward tide. You get your money out at whatever point makes you comfortable (risk vs. reward), and then ride the rest on "house money".

What's different about ZR vs. all the other similar programs is ZR casts itself as an MLM and their success has been promoting it using typical MLM channels. The HYIP programs understand their customers know the nature of the risks.

For example, look at STP's disclaimers all over the place when you deposit money. They are very, very clear that many of their merchants are high risk. You might not get your money back. You have to sign no refund, no chargeback, no dispute contract with STP in order to deposit money. This doesn't make ZR bad by association, what I am saying is ZR lives in the same sector as these other high risk programs. The reason people like me would join is to get in while the daily profit share will yield profit (the entire point of HYIP participation).

Now what ZR is saying with new compliance rules is you can't promote it talking about compound interest, sharing spreadsheets, showing income projects, even using the word "compound" or "interest". The other HYIP programs and even some MLM's similar to ZR are not so shy. As a potential affiliate, I would want to be able to talk about compound interest. It's the sole reason I would join (daily profit share compounds on itself), and the reason why I would bring in others.

"Retail Customer Bid Sales" (the bids that the CUSTOMER PURCHASES)and "VIP Bids" (the bids that the AFFILIATE PURCHASES to GIVE AWAY) are NOT the same thing. And I'm sure they do this to head off some of the things that you are concerned with. PLUS there will be VIP Point caps in our future I'm sure of it. AGAIN, to address some of these problems. I'm active in several forums, but I'm sure WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THESE THINGS BEFORE IN THIS THREAD.
Exactly. And so I don't understand why I was told in this thread I am wrong?

The BOGO promo gives the affiliate double the VIP points. A lot of people have been "abusing" this by singing up as retail customers and buying the max $500 per customer (getting 1000 VIP, compounding bids). The compliance call and the emphasis on no stacking policy was done because affiliates were maximizing BOGO. If listened to the hour long call, there was a part where it was said (paraphrasing) "the intent of BOGO is to get real retail customers buying bids, not for affiliates to inflate their points balance by abusing the system".

The reality is that at some point, the profit share has to be reconciled with the ratio of real revenue vs. affiliate point balances. You can't maintain > 1.4% rate forever. That's all I'm saying...
 
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Lol much like shelterman I wish I wasn't actually busy and could post here as often as you are able to sooted. Sadly I am incredibly busy this weekend, and am writing this on my phone while at the office on a Saturday. Sigh.

Truth is you bring up good points sooted, but there are just as many answers as well. You obviously don't believe these answers and some of us clearly do. Who's right or wrong will surely come to light in the future.

Hopefully someone else has time to debate with you.
 
I found a bit more time...:)

Why would you join a HYIP program if you knew that all HYIP programs, by definition, eventually fail? The key is to get in early and ride the upward tide. You get your money out at whatever point makes you comfortable (risk vs. reward), and then ride the rest on "house money".

What's different about ZR vs. all the other similar programs is ZR casts itself as an MLM and their success has been promoting it using typical MLM channels. The HYIP programs understand their customers know the nature of the risks.

This is your problem. You insist on comparing ZR with a HYIP. It's been a while since I've looked into them, but but from what I remember, most HYIPs promise some sort of return from some sort of undisclosed "off shore" bank insider that is willing to generate a return for all the investers or some similar story. Or they are just a flat-out moneygame where everyone knows that the latecommers are going to take it in the shorts. And if the truth was known about all of them I'll bet 95% of them are paying investors from their own money or the money of subsequent investors. (ie. a ponzi)

ZR is NOT a moneygame, they are a legitimate company formed to promote another legitimate company which happens to be a part of a well established and proven to be profitable industry, penny auctions. If the penny auction concept was not profitable, companies like Quibids amd Beezid wouldn't exist. And if they are profitable on their own merit why couldn't Zeekler be profitable completely on it's own merit? One thing in common with all penny auctions is that they need traffic (bidders) and LOTS of it. If you spend any time at all on TV you know how Quibids amd Beezid are promoting their auctions. Zeekler has just chosen to promote in a different and VERY unique way.

That's all I have time for now...more later.
 
Cashing out your seed money makes complete sense. The problem is you need to build a balance first. So if you join the program, you are betting on it being profitable for at least a few months so you can grow your balance high enough such that you can then switch to an 80/20 or 70/30 withdrawal and recover your money.

Now you could just wait until you hit some level, like 2-3x your initial balance, and then do 100% cashout. The problem there is while you will recover your seed money, your account balance will be so low it will take awhile to grow it back up. But at that point it is "house money", other than your monthly premium subscription which takes 150-days to recover (60-days to convert bonus points to VIP points, then 90-days to withdraw it).

The way that I instruct my sign ups to pull out their "house money" is to do a 100% cashout at a certain point PRIOR to when the 90 day rule starts hitting their account. Works perfectly...Did it myself just recently. It wouldn't have to be done that way. It just makes the most sense to me. Seems to have the least impact on your VIP Points and the "house money" pull out happens much quicker.
 
The reality is that at some point, the profit share has to be reconciled with the ratio of real revenue vs. affiliate point balances. You can't maintain > 1.4% rate forever. That's all I'm saying...

First off the 1.4% rate is not "maintained" it is just an average. I'm not splitting hairs with you here I just want it said that that the 1.4% is an average of a daily percentage fluctuation which is based on our share, as affiliates, of the COMPANY'S PROFIT for that day. It is NOT a "return" that is "fixed", "variable", or any other banking or investment term that you want to give it. This is why, to your disappointment in a earlier post, that we cannot use those terms, because those terms imply that this is an investment. The same goes for "compounding".

Secondly, ZR is not static, it is a constantly changing company which makes adjustments in their business structure and product, just like ANY well run company does. Can you imagine if Microsoft didn't make adjustments and corrections after the initial release of Vista? If they didn't most of us would be using Macs by now (at least I would). Why do you not allow for the ZR admin to have the same proactive forsite? You say the rate can't be maintained forever. I may be wrong but it seems to me that they'll put caps on total earnings or VIP Point balances before they'd mess with the percentage, but I agree, something will have to be done.

Your opinion that changes in the ZR commission structure is noted and accepted as a valid concern. If you'd read through this thread you'd have seen that we have brought this up on this thread at least a couple of times as a concern and ZR ITSELF has confermed that it is a point that needed to be addressed....Do your HYIPs admit THAT?
 
New announcement!

Happy Monday Zeek Family! Don't miss tonight's Leadership call featuring Z.E.O. Paul Burks and top MLM Attorney Kevin Grimes who are joining Z.O.O. Dawn Wright-Olivares to roll-out our incredible new compliance certification course and the incredible early-bird incentive TONIGHT at 9:30p est!!

Due to incredibly high call-in volume we have created 2 spill-over lines that will also be dialed in to the call - the 3 dial-in numbers and access codes are as follows:

Primary:

760-569-7676 Participant Pin: 223177#
or Skype dial-in access add Skype Contact: freeconferencecallhd.7605697676


Spill-Over Line #1

559-726-1300 Participant Pin: 650895#
For Skype dial-in access add Skype Contact: freeconferencecallhd.5597261300


Spill-Over Line #2

805-399-1200 Participant Pin: 198298#
For Skype dial-in access add Skype Contact:
freeconferencecallhd.8053991200

See You on the Call!!
Zeek
 
The way that I instruct my sign ups to pull out their "house money" is to do a 100% cashout at a certain point PRIOR to when the 90 day rule starts hitting their account. Works perfectly...Did it myself just recently. It wouldn't have to be done that way. It just makes the most sense to me. Seems to have the least impact on your VIP Points and the "house money" pull out happens much quicker.

I did the same thing. Recouped my initial investment before 90 days and now I am doing a 75/25 split.
 
I've seen some decent overview videos of zeek, albeit a bit long-winded at times. Still good primer info. >PM me for links to those private strategy videos<

This guy's group is KILLING it on the profit sharing side.

Agreed with others that are doing it --- and doing it very well. Good times!
 
New announcement!

Happy Monday Zeek Family! Don't miss tonight's Leadership call featuring Z.E.O. Paul Burks and top MLM Attorney Kevin Grimes who are joining Z.O.O. Dawn Wright-Olivares to roll-out our incredible new compliance certification course and the incredible early-bird incentive TONIGHT at 9:30p est!!

Due to incredibly high call-in volume we have created 2 spill-over lines that will also be dialed in to the call - the 3 dial-in numbers and access codes are as follows:

Primary:

760-569-7676 Participant Pin: 223177#
or Skype dial-in access add Skype Contact: freeconferencecallhd.7605697676


Spill-Over Line #1

559-726-1300 Participant Pin: 650895#
For Skype dial-in access add Skype Contact: freeconferencecallhd.5597261300


Spill-Over Line #2

805-399-1200 Participant Pin: 198298#
For Skype dial-in access add Skype Contact:
freeconferencecallhd.8053991200

See You on the Call!!
Zeek

Hey, thanks for the heads up on the conference call belgirl. Wasn't aware of this. I'm going to listen to this tonight.
 
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