Zennoposter Blogs - Group pay programmer

[madoctopus]

From what I know the browser itself, as any program who communicates with other computers, use sockets.

I was told, by several programmers, the only way to work with it is to create a click interface (that will click a certain number of pixels or in a defined area)

Let me guess, desktop coders (C# and the kind)? They would think about that x-pixels approach if they didn't knew about libraries that emulate browsers.
It can be done from what I know by Python+Selenium (http://seleniumhq.org/). No, PHP can not do it (unless you make PHP work with selenium which I never looked into). Python+Mechanize can't either.

Theoretically at least, you have other choices either but are overly complicated - combining PHP/Python/Whatever with a macro platform like AutoHotKey or iMacros.

 

[Expertpeon]

I was actually referencing socket API. Again I'm at best a hapless beginner when it comes to this, so my lingo may be off, but I was referencing the socket delivery of inputs rather than loading pages in a browser itself

Let me guess, desktop coders (C# and the kind)?

Correct they were a bunch of C guys. Python may just be what I should have been learning though all this time.

They would think about that x-pixels approach if they didn't knew about libraries that emulate browsers.
It can be done from what I know by Python+Selenium (http://seleniumhq.org/). No, PHP can not do it (unless you make PHP work with selenium which I never looked into). Python+Mechanize can't either.

 

[Grovsta]

Why use zenno why not get a software made for that much to create and post on these sites?

I am in if you get a software made! Instead of zenno..

My 2 cents..

 

[madoctopus]

@massguru unless you do it yourself ro have a very reliable coder to handle the updates you have the same problem as with ZP. As a matter of fact if you're not a coder you end up worse, at least you can update ZP templates yourself to a certain extent. Also, such a system is not trivial to build if you want to do it right and personally I would not trust 90%+ of the coders to do it right - you dont need just a coder, you need a coder who understands the SEO principles and reasoning behind how he builds it.

 

[Expertpeon]

@massguru unless you do it yourself ro have a very reliable coder to handle the updates you have the same problem as with ZP. As a matter of fact if you're not a coder you end up worse, at least you can update ZP templates yourself to a certain extent. Also, such a system is not trivial to build if you want to do it right and personally I would not trust 90%+ of the coders to do it right - you dont need just a coder, you need a coder who understands the SEO principles and reasoning behind how he builds it.

Agreed, coding such a thing in any language (with the goal faster submissions and higher success rates than you could get with ZP) would be a monumental undertaking... and I suspect, require a degree of coding ability you'd be looking at a $20-30k tool.

Also you would regularly be shelling out money for fixes to said tool. Most coders with degrees in Comp Sci, couldn't do it. It's beyond their abilities (maybe not 10-15 years into their careers though?)
I'd say roughly 90-95% of "programmers" only program in Java, and if you're lucky, a bit of C... Java is next to useless if speed is the goal, and C is going to req a lot of knowledge. Python is a high-level language like Java, but does not seemingly have its incredible slowness executing tasks.
Though I think, in general, you could use any high-level language for this task like Perl?

 

[madoctopus]

you'd be looking at a $20-30k tool.

more like $5000

Most coders with degrees in Comp Sci, couldn't do it. It's beyond their abilities (maybe not 10-15 years into their careers though?)

has nothing to do with experience measured in time but with experience in the particular field of scraping/submitting. is not particularly hard but you need to know specifically how to code scrapers/posters and have good software architecture knowledge (including design patterns).

I'd say roughly 90-95% of "programmers" only program in Java

not true

Java is next to useless if speed is the goal

certainly not true. Java is very fast, almost as fast as C++ & C#. In certain cases is faster. Only thing is slower at is rendering GUI and that is not noticeable. Only thing where Java would be a bit too slow is game development. Even more, the shittiest Java app will still be faster than what you can do on a 1Gbps connection.

Python is a high-level language like Java

No is not! Python is interpreted and can be precompiled (just like PHP). Also it has dynamic typing. Java is a compiled language (JIT/Java VM not machine/assembler code like C/C++) and with strict types. Java speed vs Python speed is faster and a lot faster than vs PHP speed.

Though I think, in general, you could use any high-level language for this task like Perl?

Yes but you need a browser emulation library that can execute JavaScript in order to be able to trully emulate user actions for any platform. I don't think Perl has such a thing unless it can work with Selenium or something similar. It has WWW::Mechanize but from what I know that doesn't execute JavaScript is just a regular HTML parser.

You can basically use any language but since some don't support browser emulators you either have to hook into a real browser's API (like SENuke and others does, which poses security problems) or "hack" your way around the limitations. Hence, from what I know so far, Python is the best solution (from my point of view).

Update: It seems Selenium works with many languages including PHP Didn't realized it before as all examples i was looking over were in Python. I should go and play with it in PHP now...

 

[Expertpeon]

No is not! Python is interpreted and can be precompiled (just like PHP). Also it has dynamic typing. Java is a compiled language (JIT/Java VM not machine/assembler code like C/C++) and with strict types. Java speed vs Python speed is faster and a lot faster than vs PHP speed.

Interesting... I appreciate your explanation.
I guess Python would be excellent for this task.

Are you programming into a single interface? or are you creating a ton of executables with Python?

Likewise, I graduated with a MS in Nuclear engineering and a BS in Physics. Most programmers out of my school were almost entirely programming in Java, and apparently, they were only required to take a single C course during their tenure in college.
I suppose I was referencing the US educational system here, where it is heavily involved in programming in that language.

Personally, I think $5000 to get a tool that works on 90-100 web 2.0s would be tremendously cheap... I could not see such a tool taking anything less than 2-3 months (at least if you wanted a GUI)
Anyway I appreciate your explanations in this thread. It has seriously spurred my interests and I will be picking up this language as soon as I can.

 

[Getwhatchuwant]

Man this is a great convo, sadly I know nothing about what you guys speak of except only in the most basic sense. However my wifes brother is visiting this month and he has 2 IT based companies and is a graduate from MIT, perhaps I can talk him into allowing some resources into developing something along the lines of what you guys are talking about. If the ROI is high enough I am sure that he would not be opposed to at least listening. I just have to be able to speak about it semi-intelligently.

 

[madoctopus]

Personally, I think $5000 to get a tool that works on 90-100 web 2.0s would be tremendously cheap... I could not see such a tool taking anything less than 2-3 months (at least if you wanted a GUI)

Building software for end users is a pain in the ass because you have to cover all possible exceptions, errors, clean user input, etc. Great thing about being a coder is that you can eliminate like 70% of the development time by just doing it the "hakish" way where it works just fine only it doesn't have a GUI and is not user friendly.

 

[Grovsta]

Why not try with imacros and sick submitter..??

My 0.02 c

P.S. There is a guy who has done a few in iMacros.. Here is the thread where he is sharing it..

http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo-tools/391660-web-2-0-imacro-automation-script.html

iMacros is a cheap, easy way to build automation scripts.

Thanks and Regards

 

[shoaibahmad9999]

Well, let me tell you what I think.

Make your self well first with the things that can
be easily done (zennoposter) once you are stable making
$8k-10k a month, go ahead and outsource your tasks and
give time to learn coding. And then get back to your biz

That's me though

 

[albaniax]

Well, let me tell you what I think.

Make your self well first with the things that can
be easily done (zennoposter) once you are stable making
$8k-10k a month, go ahead and outsource your tasks and
give time to learn coding. And then get back to your biz

That's me though

Yep, you're right.

Actually, I already have 2 assistants for outsourcing - one for spinning and one for link building.

It's just that I wanted to save the time for web 2.0 blogs, to more High PR blog commenting. Further, automation is very good, when you have a lot of domains. So, each of them get's a little bit of power, without putting to much work on it day-in-and-day-out.

Nevertheless, time to learn Python, the O'Reilly book is on it's way

 

[deancow]

I'd be up for contributing to a zennoposter template as long as it to posts to blogs not found on senuke

 

[jairathnem]

Actually i did the registering the part using imacros and it worked perfectly.

Will post the ZP version once i buy ZP .


This is a great idea to get everything automated.

count me in.

 

[FuryKyle]

Count me in. Will pay for templates for web 2.0's that are not already in SENuke.

 

[Dark Knight]

hey buddy any update

 

[madoctopus]

Here's a good start with programming in Python

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6U-i4gXkLM&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP4C4720A6F225E074

 

[jazzc]

Expert

1. Use curl_multi_* in optimal mode - constant bandwidth utilization / constant number of parallel requests. In other words, once a requests completes, start a new one immediately. There is absolutely no tutorial or documentation on how to do this. Requires days of trial and error and putting together what you read.

No documentation? Directly from the manual...
http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.curl-multi-exec.php#87492

 

[madoctopus]

No documentation? Directly from the manual...
http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.curl-multi-exec.php#87492

Well there's the aproach similar to what manixrock-~-gmail-~-com shows in the comments on that page.

However it is somewhat buggy and implementing it optimally for a dynamic system is not that easy.

Basically the idea is to have a callback/observer function that executes when a requests completes. There you do what you want with the response. After you run that, you figure out if you have more URLs/requests to make and if you do, you add the next one to the curl_multi handle. And so on...

The idea is, you do NOT know in advance the next URL you have to request and/or you have many URLs (e.g. 100mil) and can't put them all to run at once.

In practice I personally ran into some problems with how curl_multi works. Ideally I would have used threads but PHP doesn't support threads.

 

[jazzc]

Basically the idea is to have a callback/observer function that executes when a requests completes.

Your approach is more elegant.

The idea is, you do NOT know in advance the next URL you have to request and/or you have many URLs (e.g. 100mil) and can't put them all to run at once.

I supposed the callbacks from curl don't stack and cause a mess? That 's a big problem. This is why I prefer the KISS principle. His method is not elegant at all, he is brute-forcing, but is very straight forward and with no thread-safety type of issues.

Ideally I would have used threads but PHP doesn't support threads.

Gearman is our friend I don't do curl_multi anymore - much easier to scale.