C# or C++ ?

[sirgold]

c# better than c/c++? Really? c/c++ can't multi-thread? Really?!?! Oh you don't have a shitty built-in thread-pooling mechanism, you mean... I see... BFD. Oh you have to write FREE instead of using some pre-digested GC, you mean... BFD. It must be a case that the vast majority of internet daemons is coded in c/c++... And for the naysayers of large webapps if you wanna go bytecode, stick to java or scala: .net is where java was 10 years ago. The "noobness" of these comments is embarrassing... It sounds a lot like all those ppl talking shit abt php that have NEVER touched memcached...

If you are SERIOUS, go with c++ and a decent framework like QT for interacting with the web. For socket based apps, c/c++ simply has no comparison with all the rest. You'll have the added benefits of having:
- faster apps
- smaller apps (if you don't get why this matters to make a profit, not my problem lol)
- easy possibility of multi-platform apps (hitting multiple platforms might be a selling point in a niche)

If all you need to do is coding little TOYS you probably won't support long-term (like most ppl sell on these boards) to make a quick buck be my guest and go with c# or vb.net: they GET the job done. If you take this route and you value your time though you're probably better off learning ubot, imacros, zenno or any other web automation tools.

Because -honestly- you might end up accomplishing way more in far less time. The most bang for the buck.

 

[kokoloko75]

C#/.NET is so shitty !
C/C++ is so hard to learn !

But if I had to choose I would take C++.
Older, stronger, more efficient.

Just my very short opinion.
Personally I use Delphi with love...

Beny

 

[BP247]

Now I think OP shall concentrate on Delphi, because as said, two powerful tools are created in Delphi.

 

[SlimProxies]

BTW, the new Delphi is Cross Platform between Mac and Windows. Not to mention the Firemonkey framework ...

 

[Yupefer]

C#/.NET is so shitty !
C/C++ is so hard to learn !

But if I had to choose I would take C++.
Older, stronger, more efficient.

Just my very short opinion.
Personally I use Delphi with love...

Beny

I've read somewhere that delphi is Object Pascal? I have a decent amount of experience with pascal would this be a good transition?

 

[cool0403]

I've read somewhere that delphi is Object Pascal? I have a decent amount of experience with pascal would this be a good transition?

Ya honestly, skip the whole .net dependency network. In the future those languages will eventually fade out, learn either delphi or c++. But i think delphi would be a good choice .

I would suggest you learn to use winhttp instead if wininet for the bots http request.

 

[sirgold]

C#/.NET is so shitty !
C/C++ is so hard to learn !

But if I had to choose I would take C++.
Older, stronger, more efficient.

Just my very short opinion.
Personally I use Delphi with love...

Beny

Been a long-time super satisfied Borland (Inprise/Embarcadero/whater they're called now) coder myself. Their RAD tools (Delphi, C++ Builder, really RAD in every way possible!) were so much easier and allowing faster development cycles than Visual C it was not even funny. MS MFC was a joke of a framework compared to Borland VCL. Rapidly I ended up firing up VC only to code kernel drivers and for other "low level" chores.

I would argue that their compiler was not on par with MS' but, well... If you can live with that Borland has always really made great products. As easy as Visual Basic (well almost... ), but way more powerful and the awesome Indy components to extend it. For me QT has an edge these days because you can really compile x-platform real -fast, native- binaries, but still Delphi/C Builder would be a close second... Sadly their Kylix effort went to waste back in the day...

 

[paulcarter97]

C# is sure the easiest. Much easier than C++, if you know programming in C# you can make either web based or desktop based application. C# use ASP Net techonology so it is powerful enough to handle your job

 

[kokoloko75]

I'm not enough good in C#/.NET or C++ to give a good review, but just about Delphi I think it's a good language to build SEO softwares.
With Indy component (in Delphi) it's easy to use POST and GET.

For example, ScrapeBox uses POST and GET commands.
You have just to extract the value of WordPress root URL and comment_post_ID, then to submit the form like :

[...]
    param.Add('author='+Form1.Edit1.Text);
    param.Add('email='+Form1.Edit2.Text);
    param.Add('url='+Form1.Edit3.Text);
    param.Add('comment='+Form1.Edit4.Text);
    param.Add('comment_post_ID='+Form1.Edit5.Text);
    param.Add('comment_parent=0');
    param.Add('post=submit');
[...]

I shortened but in large view it's simple like that.

Beny

 

[Yupefer]

I'm not enough good in C#/.NET or C++ to give a good review, but just about Delphi I think it's a good language to build SEO softwares.
With Indy component (in Delphi) it's easy to use POST and GET.

For example, ScrapeBox uses POST and GET commands.
You have just to extract the value of WordPress root URL and comment_post_ID, then to submit the form like :

[...]
    param.Add('author='+Form1.Edit1.Text);
    param.Add('email='+Form1.Edit2.Text);
    param.Add('url='+Form1.Edit3.Text);
    param.Add('comment='+Form1.Edit4.Text);
    param.Add('comment_post_ID='+Form1.Edit5.Text);
    param.Add('comment_parent=0');
    param.Add('post=submit');
[...]

I shortened but in large view it's simple like that.

Beny

I think I'm going to go with delphi since I have previous knowledge of Pascal.
Where did you learn Delphi?

 

[kokoloko75]

I think I'm going to go with delphi since I have previous knowledge of Pascal.
Where did you learn Delphi?

I learned by myself.
Delphi has a large community on internet.

http://www.delphibasics.co.uk/
http://www.delphipages.com/forum/
...

Beny

 

[Mutikasa]

can u make bots in something easier, like PHP?

 

[izSpK]

I slapped myself multiple times during reading this thread. Some made me lose faith in your intelligence. Some brought it back though

 

[hatemachine]

BTW, c++ can't multithread.

..

"faster apps" - I am glad that you have posted the benchmarks that prove that C++ application written using the most bloated framwork are faster than C# applications. Especially the "faster apps" part is really interesting, and well provoking.


"smaller apps" - .NET applications are usually below 100 KB. I have written several bots that were multi-threaded and an amazing gui. Yet they were around 80 KB. So I don't see what you are trying to say here. Don't even try to say that it's bothersome to install the .NET framework. It even comes pre-installed since Windows 7.

"- easy possibility of multi-platform apps (hitting multiple platforms might be a selling point in a niche)"

It might, or might not. So this can NOT used against C#. But anyway, if you didn't know there is Mono, which allows you cross-platform development.

"If all you need to do is coding little TOYS you probably won't support long-term (like most ppl sell on these boards) to make a quick buck be my guest and go with c# or vb.net: they GET the job done. If you take this route and you value your time though you're probably better off learning ubot, imacros, zenno or any other web automation tools."

Let me aware on you the World of Warcraft bot which was called Glider. It was written in C# and the developer(s) made millions from it. Aware yourself on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_%28bot%29. So this is wrong also. Not to mention that most of the SEO tools are written using the .NET framework and have been selling for years. So please, before you try to bash a language because you prefer your own, don't be an annoying prick. And this comes from a guy who has used C++ for years. Every language has its strong points, and bad points. Every developer should be able to write code in multiple languages, not just one. There is no bad language, only bad developers. Use the right tool, for the right job.

 

[ThatBotProgrammer]

actually, it can.

I'm sorry, I should have said C++ does not natively support parallelism (multithreading).

"C++ does not contain any built-in support for multithreaded applications. Instead, it relies entirely upon the operating system to provide this feature. Given that both Java and C# provide built-in support for multithreading, it is natural to ask why this isn't also the case for C++. The answers are efficiency, control, and the range of applications to which C++ is applied."

-
"In very much the same way that C++ does not provide native support for displaying graphics or emitting sounds or reading input from a mouse, the operating system that's being used will provide a C++ API for utilizing these features."

Src: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/...ithreading-how-can-unmanaged-c-apps-be-multit

Delphi is the best. Since it's cross platform (via lazarus) and doesnt have any dependencies. And of course not to mention that it's way faster than .net apps ...

+1 for mentioning Delphi. Java is also a good alternative.


--

In the world of i5/i7 Processors, 6 Gig Ram, 1 TB Computers.. Does c++ speed compared to any .net language make that much of a difference? I don't think so...

To the OP:

Again, it all comes down to the right tool for the right job.

For IM Automation:

1. VB.Net
2. C#
3. Delphi
4. Java

I have been in the software development industry for more than 20 years. I would never ask my team to do a project for a web app in c++, simply because asp.net/php is available. We don't have to re invent the wheel. In the same context, I will not ask any of my developers to code a device driver in c#, as it is better fit for a c++ task.

If you're aiming at optimization and performance, why not push it further and use mASM? Why settle for c++?

Delphi I have always been a fan of. Somehow it feels like it bridges the gap between using the O/S API and Managed library. But I don't use it for everything I code.

Anyway, I have my reasons why I chose these programming languages. I'm sure you'll find one advantage on your own when you actually sit down and do a real project.

Be sure to filter out garbage advice. Do research on your own.. And let us know what you choose! If you have any questions, shoot me a pm or add me on skype.

 

[hatemachine]

..

Indeed. Though, in the new standard "C++0x" there will be threading included.

http://www.justsoftwaresolutions.co...0x-part-2-function-objects-and-arguments.html

The gnu compiler already supports it. And I agree, java and delphi are great.

A good read: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222432/C_wins_developers_but_Java_still_reigns

Java is the #2nd most used language, next year it will beat C also.

 

[BlueTurtle]

*snip*

 

[ThatBotProgrammer]

Sorry. See below.

 

[BlueTurtle]

*snip*

 

[ThatBotProgrammer]

I will respect your opinion as everyone is entitled to it. I was just merely stating a technical point. And in my defense, no I am not new to programming nor to their core concepts. I am a software engineer (for the last 22 years) and one of the projects I have handled in the past is MFC.

I reckon a man like yourself and I can argue about this all day long and never come to the same conclusion. It has happened before, and I don't have the strength to pursue a mute point.

No, C++ as the language cannot multithread on its own. And yes, C++ can multithread if the O/S API allows it.

Now the next point is does it really matter if it's (not) the best tool to create IM bots simply because of the lack of library support? I am not talking about sockets, although I admit it is superior than httpwebrequest or any .net managed library.

As far as automation goes:

1. Is there an open source browser for C++ that we can automate? I reckon you can use MSHTML, but it's negative points outweigh its positive ones.

2. Sockets and Javascripts. I don't think such a library exists in C++. Yes you can write one yourself to handle JS parsing, but that is definitely a task that will take a lot of time. We can talk about bypassing JS and it's benefits and just posting the actual parameters, however, that takes a lot of debugging time (Sites like yahoo, hotmail, etc).. And in agile development, that's a big no no if a better alternative is available.

I understand that there are different core concepts of development, and through the years I have sticked with the agile process. Some of you may not agree that it is the best process available but for me and the teams I have worked with, that is the practical option. Why cut a tree for a wooden door when one is already available in the hardware store?

I apologize if I may have acted out of emotion earlier, I should have known better. Will edit my post.