Clearing up some things about PR and SERP ranking.

[jonnymch]

If you read through the thread you'll find that was addressed. If you're internal links are done correctly with link sculpting in mind then yeah it will help. But even in that case it isn't the actual PR that's causing it, it's the value of all the external links you have passing juice to you're site.

The PR number for any page is just an indicator of all those backlinks. Also the displayed PR is only a snapshot from a single date, so it isn't even always accurate. The point of the thread is that PR of your page is just a result of you're backlinking efforts. The SERPs don't care about what you're PR is, they just care about the same backlinks that are causing it.

In other words the PR and the SERP position are both results, but the backlinking (internal or external) is the determining factor.

Yes that makes sense - from your initial post I got the impression that you were saying that having a high PR on your homepage has no effect on how easy it is to rank for new pages (which I don't think you are saying).

 

[GreyWolf]

Yes that makes sense - from your initial post I got the impression that you were saying that having a high PR on your homepage has no effect on how easy it is to rank for new pages (which I don't think you are saying).

Well that pretty much is what I'm saying. The PR itself of your homepage has very little effect on ranking your pages in and of itself. You still have to make the link anchored with the keyword you want the new page to rank for, and unless it's relevant to what you're homepage is already ranking for then it's not going to make a huge difference on it's own.

What I'm saying is that as far as PR and backlinks are concerned it's the backlinks that make the difference in the SERP.

PR of the page you're getting links from do matter because a high PR page counts the same as many lower PR sites. That's the same whether it's an internal link or an external backlink. But it's still the backlinking that is making the difference for both your PR and the SERP ranking.

If you have a high PR page and that PR is based on backlinks related to "keyword 1", then when you create and link to a new internal page then that page is likely to rank well in the serp for that "keyword 1" as well. But if none of the backlinks to your site have ever been made for "keyword 2", then you create a new internal page targeted for "keyword 2" then it isn't necessarily going to have the same result in the SERP as it would have if targeted for "keyword 1".

Once again the PR isn't what affects the SERP rank. The PR and the SERP ranking are just both results of the same factor (which is backlinks). PR is affected by the total number and quality of backlinks, SERP ranking is affected by the number and quality of keyword anchored backlinks. A link on a higher PR page (internal or external) will have a better effect, but only because the higher PR page counts the same as many lower PR pages.

The total number of backlinks is affecting PR, but the keyword anchored backlinking itself is what's affecting the SERP.

 

[wolf1880]

I've read somewhere that PR is not only computed based on backlinks but on a lot of other factors. I've also read that a site's PR is one of the considerations in SERPs, meaning if you already have high PR, it will be much easier for you to rank in SERPs for keywords you target. Anyway, I've also read somewhere that it's just all about backlinks. So, you just need to keep getting backlinks and eventually, you'll be on top.

 

[naresh821]

I think that PR and SERP are interrelated somewhere.. PR of a page indicates its importance or trust of Google about this page. If a page has high PR then it means google has more importance or trust on this page so google will surely give it high SERP than lower PR pages.

 

[GreyWolf]

I've read somewhere that PR is not only computed based on backlinks but on a lot of other factors. I've also read that a site's PR is one of the considerations in SERPs, meaning if you already have high PR, it will be much easier for you to rank in SERPs for keywords you target. Anyway, I've also read somewhere that it's just all about backlinks. So, you just need to keep getting backlinks and eventually, you'll be on top.

I've read a lot of things too. lol. If what you were saying was true then it wouldn't be nearly so common to find lower PR sites beating out high PR site in the SERPs.

How the algorithms calculate the PR has changed over the years but it's still based on backlinks. The SERP on the other hand has undergone many changes and is based on a lot more factors than it used to be. It sounds like you may be confusing PR with things you've read about Trust Rank. Trust Rank is based on a lot of other factors besides just backlinks. But Page Rank and Trust Rank are two different things. This thread is just explaining when and how PR (specifically) affects the SERPs.

The point is that the importance is in the backlinks. Get as many and as high PR backlinks as you can targeted for your keywords and you'll help both your sites PR and more importantly it's SERP position.

I think that PR and SERP are interrelated somewhere.. PR of a page indicates its importance or trust of Google about this page. If a page has high PR then it means google has more importance or trust on this page so google will surely give it high SERP than lower PR pages.

PR and SERP ranking are related, but only in that they are both affected by the same factor.

PR does indicate it's importance (if you gauge importance by how many places are linking to a page), but it doesn't necessarily indicate trust. You're confusing Page Rank with Trust Rank. Those are two separate things.

 

[madoctopus]

SERPs are influenced by A LOT more important factors than PR. Some of them are:

1. Topicality - how much of your site's content is about "keyword". For example wikipedia has very low topicality for any term because it covers many topics. A niche site entirely about for example "digital cameras" (e.g. dpreview.com) has high topicality.
2. Topic coverage - in a way similar to topicality, but specifically about how much you target specific subtopics. Like if main keyword of the site is "digital cameras" you might have a lot of content about "Canon Ixus X123" digital camera and cover a lot of aspects about that camera - review, ratings, prices, settings, comparisons with other models, etc. Then you have high coverage on "Canon Ixus X123". That makes you rank well for a lot of keywords you don't even target or have in your text.
3. Relevance - per domain & per page. Related and interconnected to topicality but not the same thing.
4. DomainTrust - The higher the domain trust, the more Google will take into consideration your on-site SEO. I used to rank #1 for "keyword 2011" just because i had "Copyright 2007-2011 SiteName" in the footer. That was the only "2011" on my site. Others had "keyword 2011" in the title, in the H1, in text, etc. They didn't outranked me. I was ranking with a 2011 from the copyright statement in the footer. It was a PR3 site with only 3000 links but had more trust than higher PR sites.
5. User engagement - that's comments, time spent on site, pages per visit. User generated content is a particular type of engagement metric. Having a post on your site that receives comments every week, growing to 100-200 comments will do wonders in google. I jumped up 10-15 positions in google just from people posting comments on my pages. One trick for blackhat adepts is to respin the content on a site every week - that makes google think your content updates extremely often.
6. Domain name search - very few know about this but if a lot of people search for your domain name in google and/or "domainName.com keyword" that seems to increase your association with that keyword Bet you didn't knew about that shit did you!? (this only works with big sites that already have high trust, topicality and relevance for a keyword). Shhh... don't tell others about it
7. SpamRank - NOT an exact opposite of TrustRank. Won't go into details as most people seem to just fuck themselves up in this area and I'm not nice enough to come and tell you how, why or about the better alternatives.
8. Parallel Associations - remember from math class that theorem that goes like "if A=B and B=C then A=C"? Same works to a certain extent in SEO. If a big, established site ranks for "keyword" and you build A LOT of content that links both to that and to your site as well (using links close to each other - in same sentence) you will gain relevance and trust for that keyword.
9. And others not that important or too complicated in how they affect eachother...

The cobination of all these factors does wonders for SEO. I mean fucking wonders! Had a site that outranked cNet and they struggled really really hard to outrank me. They changed massive amounts of content on their site 6 times within a year. They restructured their internal linking structure to mimic mine. They increased topic coverage. Nothing helped them. They gained positions for more keywords but never outranked me. Meanwhile I was NOT doing any work on my site.

1 link from a PR6 page may get your site to PR3. However it will not make it rank for a particular keyword. I might outrank you with a PR0 page just because I payed attention to the more important aspects and didn't got caught up in the PR hunting frenzy. That being said, PR is very important too and you always have to aim towards building a well balanced combination of all these factors.

 

[Lordsenf]

the only reason left to care about PR is if you want to sell links to costumers also the PR does not determinate the quality of a particular backlink

 

[GreyWolf]

SERPs are influenced by A LOT more important factors than PR...

Absolutely. But in this thread I'm only addressing the specific factor of PR. It's definitely not the most important factor, but it's one that's quite often misunderstood.

The problem is that most often people explain everything necessary for SEO in one thread. That's fine when discussing SEO in general, but when explaining individual factors, it's best to stick to just that single topic. Otherwise new people get confused about what each individual thing is. (Since the topic of this thread is PR, I guarantee there will be at least a few people that read this thread who will think all the factors you included in your last reply pertain to PR. lol)

Actually that post you made would make a good thread on it's own regarding the "big picture" of what's important for SEO in general.

So while all those things are very important for SEO (some of them are much more important than PR), this thread isn't about all the factors necessary for SEO. This thread is specifically about when, why, and how PR affects a pages SERP position, so it's worth mentioning for those individuals who might be confused that the factors you listed have nothing to do with PR.

the only reason left to care about PR is if you want to sell links to costumers also the PR does not determinate the quality of a particular backlink

Well that depends on what particular thing you're looking for.

If you're looking for relevant blogs, then PR doesn't mean quality, relevance does. If you're looking for domain trust then PR doesn't mean quality, trust factors do. But, if your looking for quantity value of backlinks then PR is a desirable quality.

Actually a very high quality backlink is one with all factors combined. ie. a targeted keyword anchor, on a relevant page, on a trusted domain, on a higher PR page, and when possible within the main content of the page.

A backlink on one high PR page can be the equivalent of hundreds or thousands of backlinks on low PR pages. If that page is a relevant page then that one backlink will be like having hundreds of backlinks on relevant pages. If the page is unrelated to your niche, then the backlink will be like having backlinks on hundreds of unrelated pages.



Which brings us back to the main point in the thread. The value of PR (as far as it's value for the SERPs) is not about having a high PR page of your own, but rather in finding high PR pages to get keyword anchored backlinks from.

As madoctopus explained in his reply above there are many other factors for SEO besides PR that you'll want to look for as well. The point of this thread though, is simply to clear up some misunderstandings a lot of people have about what PR is and does. It's definitely important for people to remember that PR is just a single factor among many necessary for SEO, but it's also good to actually understand each single factor on it's own.

 

[Lordsenf]

Which brings us back to the main point in the thread. The value of PR (as far as it's value for the SERPs) is not about having a high PR page of your own, but rather in finding high PR pages to get keyword anchored backlinks from.

As madoctopus explained in his reply above there are many other factors for SEO besides PR that you'll want to look for as well. The point of this thread though, is simply to clear up some misunderstandings a lot of people have about what PR is and does. It's definitely important for people to remember that PR is just a single factor among many necessary for SEO, but it's also good to actually understand each single factor on it's own.

WORD! This should be included in a SEO bible.. sums up things pretty good

 

[alpha4]

This makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much for sharing the wisdom

 

[madoctopus]

I guarantee there will be at least a few people that read this thread who will think all the factors you included in your last reply pertain to PR

The reason i enumerated those factors is specifically because I know people confuse and mix them and I wanted to break them down so people see them as separate things. So I wanted quite the opposite and that is the reason of the first sentence in my post.

If that page is a relevant page then that one backlink will be like having hundreds of backlinks on relevant pages. If the page is unrelated to your niche, then the backlink will be like having backlinks on hundreds of unrelated pages.

Perfect explanation and isolation of what PR is.

Just to ad up to it, a lot of people look at PR, other factors and their effects in a cause-effect manner. For example "if you cough, you have the flu" which is a fallacy because "if you cough, you cough." period. You can not assume what is the reason why you cough - you maybe swallowed a big chunk of food, choked, dust was in the air. "If you have the flu, you cough." this may be true but again it is not true in 100% of the cases. People look at the whole cause-effect from 180 degree from how they should look at it.

If you have high PR site, google likes you and you rank high - not necessarily.
If you rank high, google likes you and probably you have high PR - maybe, again not necessarily.
If you have PR links the only thing you know for sure is that you have ONE of the factors needed to rank high. Period.

 

[finerpleasures]

I understand but does the number of backlinks from any site we are getting links from also affect the position of our pages in the SERPS?

 

[sean14592]

Great post, I think people still believe the old school rules regarding PR.

 

[commander1]

Thanks for the info

 

[GreyWolf]

I understand but does the number of backlinks from any site we are getting links from also affect the position of our pages in the SERPS?

There's a few things to keep in mind about that.

First, in the case of links on a single page:

If there's more than one link on a page to your site, then the SE will only count one link toward your PR. If the multiple links are using different keyword anchors then each of those links will count toward indexing in the SERP for that particular keyword.

The amount of content on a page has a lot to do with how many links would be acceptable. If it's a short article and your links are within the content, then one or two links is all you would want. If it's a longer article then three or four with different anchors could still be ok.

So, in any case only one link on the page will be counted for whichever factor is being ranked. For PR it'll just count a single link regardless of the total number, and the SERP will count each particular keyword anchor as a single link indexing for that keyword.

Keep in mind though that if there's an excessive amount of multiple links then it's more likely to be seen as link stuffing and/or link spam which will then be discounted altogether. Too much of that can even result in a penalty.​

Next would be regarding links on multiple pages of a single domain:

For both PR and SERP each page will be counted separately, but in either case there will typically be some dilution of link juice. So, having a link on 4 different pages of the same website will not have the same effect as having links on 4 totally different websites. How much dilution is somewhat determined by the size and scope of the website. Links on multiple pages of a huge platform like a social networking site, forum, wiki, etc. won't be diluted as much (if at all) as links on multiple pages of a 20 page hobby site. For the most part the dilution won't take you below the value of having a single link on the highest PR page you have a link on.​

Another thing to consider is whether all the backlinks are to a single url or if the links are to different pages of your website. If the links are to different pages then it can be even more legitimate to have multiple links with different anchors. Even that can still be overdone though, in which case it could be penalized as spam links and have a negative effect.

So the main thing to remember is:

Multiple links on a single webpage can be beneficial for ranking multiple keywords when done right, but for each particular keyword (and for PR) only a single applicable link will be counted. If it's overdone it could even get penalized for link stuffing.

Similarly, links on multiple pages of the same domain can be beneficial when done right, but if it's overdone it could get penalized for link spam.​

 

[copperpanther]

too good sharing...done nice job...you know i am little bit confuse..but now i am going to rock...excellent job.....love you..

 

[leuven]

This is a great thread with a topic not everybody could agree on

 

[kafai]

complete explanation about PR of site and SERP

 

[HAWTs]

quality content --> quality BL ---> high PR & Rank
let make quality site first,lol

 

[loverichie]

It's has been said that the PR of your own site doesn't affect it's position in the SERPs, and yet I still come across ...