My only BHW complaint

[cool0403]

Haha. Yes indeed, you do see a lot of that here, as anywhere else on the net.... and it is frustrating. But more than mis-argued points, I'm trying to point out that there are too many posts that don't even attempt to make any point at all just to garner enough posts....

Anyway, thanks for the good laugh.

Its true the best knowledge i ve gained in my IM years is through my close network of peers i talk on the daily, since we all discuss and talk about IM we don't have to worry about secret.

Pm me for your aim and i ll take a look at what might be causing the problem, make sure you have some sort of http analyzer so i can see your http requests.

 

[heartydreamer]

I guess the TL;DR version is that it's my opinion after spending significant amounts of time reading BHW that the policy that requires newbs to post 50 times before they get certain privileges (which is a very reasonable policy in a lot of ways and based on a very real need) also hurts BHW's quality because you end up with so many threads with posts that don't contribute anything to the conversation.

And since some people seem inclined to take any criticism of this site that they love as some sort of (personal?) attack, let me just stress that my input is intended as constructive feedback for a site that is clearly awesome. None of this means I think BHW is anything but awesome!

kinda good go.. I have been around for 3 years , mm i guess so. I have very few posts coz, I like the way things go here so I just read. I did not implement most of them and have no way of adding in value to the already present content here (atleast as of now)

When I do not have anything to contribute, I should be happy that I atleast got a chance to lean and stop feeling that my access is limited. That does not mean you spam. May be am the only lazy ass too lazy to even post.

But I dont like posting stuff that just takes the disc space on BHW servers and nothing else.

So dude, ultimately what do you want to say? I have seen that you said there are many threads that do not have a specific reason or something like that -- assume, you meant they are not tight enough on any topic and just end without a value to the board.
So how tight do you think yours is? As someone pointed above, you are part of the same problem you are complaining about.

hope I made sense:fight: Now dont fight with me. I just gave you my opinion.

One thing though THERE IS MORE GOOD HERE THAN BAD and plz accept that.

 

[GreyWolf]

When I first found BHW I was also just wanting to read and learn. It's been awhile since I joined, but I think the only reason I actually set up an account was because some things (searches for example. I'm big on searching. lol) don't work unless your a member. The posting restrictions weren't as hard back then, but even so I didn't really feel any need to make any posts for the first 5 or 6 months I was here (other than in the bst for some basic services I ordered).

When I did start posting it was usually just to ask a follow up question in someones thread, or if I noticed someone asking a question that showed they misunderstood or were confused about something basic. I never really felt that I had a whole lot to offer anyone here, but I was able to offer help to some of those people by giving explanations that they could understand. I've also been online for a looong time (I was dialing into BBSes for years until the Internet became commonly available) and so was able to explain some basic netiquette guidelines to a lot of new members that were a bit clueless about that.

Once I started making a few posts and found that not only was noone coming in to correct me or call me an idiot or anything, some of my explanations actually helped clear up some confusion for those people who's questions I was answering. So whenever I saw someone asking questions about things that I was interested in, I'd share what little information I could to help answer their questions. Within a couple months I was up to 50 posts and decided that I'd like to join the Jr.VIP. So I started to actually look for posts I knew something about. A lot of new people ask some fairly simple questions, so it isn't that hard to offer some help. If you know even a little about html, php, wordpress, or anything else about building or troubleshooting websites you'll find many questions you can answer in no time. Same thing with adsense, clickbank, seo, even just general marketing you'll find there's many total newbies that don't understand even the basics. As long as they're asking a somewhat specific question, you'll be amazed at how easy it is to help them sometimes.

Soon I was at 100 posts so I could join the Jr.VIP forum. Funny thing that happened along the way though is I got used to posting, and some of my posts were actually fairly well appreciated. I don't make so many posts anymore, or at least not as many really helpful ones as I used to. That's partly because I've shared most of what I can already and after awhile you get tired of writing the same thing over and over. lol.

So anyway, (I get a little verbose sometimes as well), my advice is don't make the short pointless ataboy" or "that's stupid" posts, those don't add anything to the forum and get annoying after a while for anyone reading the threads. Instead find threads that you can participate in. You don't always have to have additional knowledge to give, sometimes just asking a question to get a point clarified can be very helpful. Not just for yourself, but for everyone else reading the thread as well. And even if you think you don't know a lot, I'll bet you see posts sometimes where someone asks something and you think "wow, how can anyone not know that?". The fact is some people really don't "know that" and so you can help them out by explaining it in a way you thing they might understand.

If you do that then you'll find that even when you're just asking a question you're posts actually are contributing to the threads you participate in. When you actually do answer a question for someone else (even if it's just a simple question), you'll find it actually help you clarify things in your own mind so you end up with an even better understanding than you already had.

Well, I hope that somewhat addressed what you were bringing up in your first post. Hope that helps some. :cool2:

 

[akiaki]

kinda good go.. I have been around for 3 years , mm i guess so. I have very few posts coz, I like the way things go here so I just read. I did not implement most of them and have no way of adding in value to the already present content here (atleast as of now)

When I do not have anything to contribute, I should be happy that I atleast got a chance to lean and stop feeling that my access is limited. That does not mean you spam. May be am the only lazy a** too lazy to even post.

But I dont like posting stuff that just takes the disc space on BHW servers and nothing else.

Cool, that's how I feel too

So dude, ultimately what do you want to say?

Not sure how many more ways I can say it. Just re-read my posts above more carefully. It's constructive criticism for the BHW mods/community.

I have seen that you said there are many threads that do not have a specific reason or something like that -- assume, you meant they are not tight enough on any topic and just end without a value to the board.

No offense, but you should actually read what you are replying to. I said there are too many *posts* that don't add to the conversation and pollute the many excellent threads on BHW.

So how tight do you think yours is? As someone pointed above, you are part of the same problem you are complaining about.

Um, wha? My creating this thread is in no way similar to posting a "cool, dude" response on other peoples' threads. Think, people.

hope I made sense:fight: Now dont fight with me. I just gave you my opinion.

I hope you don't think I'm fighting with you, but c'mon, please understand what you're replying to before making claims like you have.

One thing though THERE IS MORE GOOD HERE THAN BAD and plz accept that.

I agree on a general basis, otherwise BHW wouldn't be worth my time. But it occurs to me that if you counted the number of good posts and the number of meaningless posts that people use to jack their post count, the numbers would not look good.

 

[akiaki]

<snipped, seemed to be triggering some part of the newb filter, sorry>

Thanks a lot for your willingness to help me out! Much appreciated, but I don't think there's any problem for me or my traffic.

Cheers!

 

[Monkehx]

That could've been 6 seperate posts right there but you chose to quote instead. What we have here is an outstanding BHW member. Add me on skype. DigitalfuckthehatersGangstor

Remove fuckthehaters.

 

[heavenInside]

OP has a point that I agree with.
But still I think " Perfection lies in imperfection".

 

[GreyWolf]

But it occurs to me that if you counted the number of good posts and the number of meaningless posts that people use to jack their post count, the numbers would not look good.

Good point.

Unfortunately that's true especially for many new members trying to get their first 15 posts, and to a lesser extent with some members trying to get the first 100 so they can join the Jr.VIP forum.

I can tell you this though it doesn't have to be that way. As I said, my first 100 posts there were very few meaningless posts. It really doesn't take that much effort to make a worthwhile post, and especially when I was still new here and unknown I didn't want to embarass myself by making a post that wasn't well thought out.

I've made in excess of 1500 posts here ( a fair amount of them are even worth reading, at least in the thread they were intended for). If someone can't make just 15 posts that have something worthwhile to say, either a decent question about a topic or add a bit of personal knowledge then they probably will have a tough time in this business anyway. New members should think of it as part of there training. A first taste of what's required to create good content for whatever marketing method they'll ultimately be giving a try.

irate:

 

[akiaki]

So anyway, (I get a little verbose sometimes as well), my advice is don't make the short pointless ataboy" or "that's stupid" posts, those don't add anything to the forum and get annoying after a while for anyone reading the threads. Instead find threads that you can participate in. You don't always have to have additional knowledge to give, sometimes just asking a question to get a point clarified can be very helpful. Not just for yourself, but for everyone else reading the thread as well. And even if you think you don't know a lot, I'll bet you see posts sometimes where someone asks something and you think "wow, how can anyone not know that?". The fact is some people really don't "know that" and so you can help them out by explaining it in a way you thing they might understand.

If you do that then you'll find that even when you're just asking a question you're posts actually are contributing to the threads you participate in. When you actually do answer a question for someone else (even if it's just a simple question), you'll find it actually help you clarify things in your own mind so you end up with an even better understanding than you already had.

Well, I hope that somewhat addressed what you were bringing up in your first post. Hope that helps some. :cool2:

Cool, thanks for the very thoughtful reply and great advice. I think you're right, eventually I probably will (or already do) have some small amount of knowledge I can offer people, and I'll definitely keep that in mind going forward and hope to contribute positively to the community.

But the other point of this thread is to bemoan that most newbies aren't going to be as conscientious as that and are just going to stuff otherwise excellent threads with junk posts. Might be just the nature of the beast, but then again, some smart people might have some good ideas for ways to tweak the rules to help fix that problem.

Anyhow, thanks again!!!

 

[IamNRE]

Short version:

Op is happy about the coumminity and thinks it kicks ass.

But his only issue are the restrictions on newbies from posting in certain places, and he argues that its because of these restrictions that noobs go and post useless none sense in certain area just to get their posts up. And ends the post with a Thanks again.

---------------------------------------------


I would to agree with the OP, its hard to find useful post coz of all the none sense posts.

Maybe Mods should open a new newbie section where they can do as they like, but it notes that its for people with low posts only (kinda like a Jr.Vip for newbies), so they can only post in there and wont be able to post in other parts of the site until they reach like 100 posts and 20 reps or something.

 

[GreyWolf]

But the other point of this thread is to bemoan that most newbies aren't going to be as conscientious as that and are just going to stuff otherwise excellent threads with junk posts. Might be just the nature of the beast, but then again, some smart people might have some good ideas for ways to tweak the rules to help fix that problem

Well the problem with rules is that some people tend not to bother learning them. There's already a rule against it, and sometimes when people are too annoying with it they'll even get themselves banned for violating that rule before they make there first 15 posts. lol.

There's even a sticky post in this suggestions and feedback forum that I wrote about a year ago or so that addresses this issue along with a few others. I used to just paste the link to it in newbies threads when I saw them making posts that the thread addressed. I haven't looked at it in awhile but it's probably still a good read. It's called Guide for New Members or something like that. Just look at the sticky threads and you'll find it.

Other than that there isn't much that can be done except to look at the members other posts and if you see that they are just inflating there post count with nothing but stupid posts like that, use the report button on their post.

 

[Paul1981]

Being so many posts you wonder "Is there a better post?" so you keep searching.. and sure , there are some post that you don't understand what the person is saying cause he is talking in slang or you find posts that most of the steps and there but a few important are missing... All t he information should be here and if you can't keep up just take the old way.. a piece of paper .. a ballpoint pen and start writing .

Black Hat Worl you rock! And If I had the money I would donate!

Thank you.

 

[akiaki]

I would to agree with the OP, its hard to find useful post coz of all the none sense posts.

Maybe Mods should open a new newbie section where they can do as they like, but it notes that its for people with low posts only (kinda like a Jr.Vip for newbies), so they can only post in there and wont be able to post in other parts of the site until they reach like 100 posts and 20 reps or something.

Nice idea. My idea was to restrict newbs to lounge-type areas, but you'd have to give them ability to get post counts there --- OTOH, maybe it could be all about rep count in the lounge (or similar place) at first instead of post count.

Something like that could work, but in the end may be more restrictive than the mods/owners want to get.

Anyhow, thanks not just here, but I've seen, read and learned from your other posts!

 

[euhero]

ataboy (pause) wait for my post to inflate. (nice)

 

[akiaki]

There we go.... ;-)

 

[blackmamber]

lol, great read isnt it - this thread

 

[heartydreamer]

That could've been 6 seperate posts right there but you chose to quote instead. What we have here is an outstanding BHW member. Add me on skype. DigitalfuckthehatersGangstor

Remove fuckthehaters.

Oh okay okay... chill.. I am not the hater. I was just telling him what I felt about his thread. That post was too big with too small a point. And I am not sure what he is suggesting, Is it a message for the noobs? No I dont think so. Is he asking mods to do something? No I dint find anything specific.
is he saying BHW is good? yes he is and I agree with that.
Is he supporting the noobs for posting useless stuff?? Oh No but I have no way of knowing what he means.
I just added my views on this topic and I am not flaming anyone, Not the OP atleast.

@OP chill and get the kicks man. DO LET US KNOW IF YOU HAVE A WAY TO SOLVE THIS GIGANTIC PROBLEM HERE ON BHW.

I was only mentioning on How TIGHT the post is.

 

[heartydreamer]

Well the problem with rules is that some people tend not to bother learning them. There's already a rule against it, and sometimes when people are too annoying with it they'll even get themselves banned for violating that rule before they make there first 15 posts. lol.

There's even a sticky post in this suggestions and feedback forum that I wrote about a year ago or so that addresses this issue along with a few others. I used to just paste the link to it in newbies threads when I saw them making posts that the thread addressed. I haven't looked at it in awhile but it's probably still a good read. It's called Guide for New Members or something like that. Just look at the sticky threads and you'll find it.

Other than that there isn't much that can be done except to look at the members other posts and if you see that they are just inflating there post count with nothing but stupid posts like that, use the report button on their post.

I do believe report button would be good way. 3 similar reports.. Boom Ban for a week or something like that would get the count of useless post down.

So with due thanks to OP, shall we start the massacre? Can we all agree to use the report button to fight the useless posts?

I am waiting for a mod to confirm if we can report useless posts with the report button.

 

[akiaki]

Oh okay okay... chill.. I am not the hater. I was just telling him what I felt about his thread. That post was too big with too small a point. And I am not sure what he is suggesting, Is it a message for the noobs? No I dont think so. Is he asking mods to do something? No I dint find anything specific.
is he saying BHW is good? yes he is and I agree with that.
Is he supporting the noobs for posting useless stuff?? Oh No but I have no way of knowing what he means.

Yes you do. The way to understand the point of this thread is to read it carefully. You missed my point (you freely admit), yet you reply to it with some opinion that is thus misinformed? C'mon.

You're clearly not flaming me, and for that I really appreciate your restraint, since others have not been so kind. So let me be clear that I do not intend to flame you and hope we can be friends.

If you tend toward having less patience to read what I wrote, please read the summary I made or the one IamNRE made. The point is not difficult to understand. Then you can reply more intelligently instead of blaming me for doing something I'm not even doing.

And yes, there are some specific suggestions that have been made. You yourself added one specific suggestion, and I applaud that. The only problem with it (reporting useless posts) that I can see is that it would take days, months, years to report as many useless "ataboy" type posts. And the mods would be totally flooded.

Maybe a slashdot-type ranking system could be VERY useful here, where we could all vote up or down people's posts, then you could set your interface to only show posts that are reasonably ranked. That's probably the best possible solution, especially if we still have the problem that noobs have to post 50 times to gain certain privileges.

 

[akiaki]

There's even a sticky post in this suggestions and feedback forum that I wrote about a year ago or so that addresses this issue along with a few others. I used to just paste the link to it in newbies threads when I saw them making posts that the thread addressed. I haven't looked at it in awhile but it's probably still a good read. It's called Guide for New Members or something like that. Just look at the sticky threads and you'll find it.

Hey GreyWolf, I found that thread and it was awesome. Seriously. But I think the biggest problem with it is that new users are going to be the minority of people reading it! It's becoming abundantly clear to me that BHW, like the rest of the net, is full of ADD types who just want instant gratification and aren't really willing to put in the hard work. (Ultimately, this probably bodes well for those of us who have patience and willingness to put in the hours, since we'll probably end up with the better sites and thus more profit, but I digress.)

So back on point, I think your introductory thread is full of helpful information, but the million dollar question is how to get noobs to read it and (the 10 million dollar question) how to get noobs to take it to heart. I don't see any easy answers unfortunately.

But from one of the few people who has read your stuff, a hearty thanks!