Double meta refresh/Javascript redirects useless!!

[kwong12]

hi all sorry for the title if it causes controversy (which i'm not hell bent on doing)

okay here's my problem. been lurking around reading posts from all you great blackhatters out there about using meta refreshes and javascript to blank/edit referrer info.

so i've set up 3 pages,

1. search engine results page (just a simple html page on one of my servers)
2. myblackhatpage
3. mywhitehatpage (for affiliates managers to see)

a lil preparation:

- inside search engine results page, put a normal href link to myblackhatpage
- inside myblackhatpage, JS redirect to mywhitehatpage
- inside the whitehatpage, i put a JS code that says if document.referrer=myblackhatpage, then location.href="AFFILIATE_LINK"

note: "AFFILIATE_LINK" is a variable, in this case i set it as http://www.google.com , as example

to test if it worked, i used live http header (a firefox addon) to monitor referral headers. and it did work, i got redirected thru all the pages and ended up at google. checked http header, says that when i began to access the google page (point of entry), my browser passed a referrer header of mywhitehatpage to google's servers. which means affiliate managers will see my white hat page. super cool. voila, thanks guys!

but here's the real prob (maybe for a noob like me, or i missed something big)

i, myself have gotten into a cpa prog , well clixgalore to be modest (nothing to shout about -> direct approval into the network). all their offers involve banner or textad clicking, then user gets geo-directed to cpa offerpage (free signups, credit check reports, those kind). affiliates like me r supposed to put these codes on my whitehatpage.

all their banner/textad codes are sort of mixed, probably for security reasons (one normal href link, and one img src file) , will give u an example bannercode:

<!-- Begin clixGalore Code-->
<p align="center">
<A href="http://www.clixGalore.com/Lead.aspx?BID=xxxxxxAfID=xxxxxx&AdID=xxxxxxLP=www.merchant.com" OnMouseOver="javascript:window.status='';return true;">
<img src="http://www.is1.clixgalore.com/cgd.aspx?BID=xxxxxxAfID=xxxxxx&AdID=6903" border="0" height="90" align="left" vspace="5" hspace="10" width="120" alt="merchant's ad message here"></A>
<a href="http://www.clixGalore.com/default.asp" target="_new"><img src="http://www.cliximages.com/images/clixgalore/clixfooter.gif" border="0"></a></p>
<!-- End clixGalore Code-->

so, see? two different linking codes inside this banner code <a href> and <img src>

so i'm kind of stumped here. i will obviously put the href link below:

*************************************************
A href="http://www.clixGalore.com/Lead.aspx?BID=xxxxxx&AfID=xxxxxx&AdID=xxxxxxLP=www.merchant.com

*************************************************

into my AFFILIATE_LINK variable ( in the code of my whitehatpage). but what about the img src code? where do i put it?

my whitehatpage code now looks like this:

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE=JAVASCRIPT TYPE="TEXT/JAVASCRIPT">
<!-- Hide script from old browsers<br>

if (document.referrer == myblackhatpage)

location.href=A href="http://www.clixGalore.com/Lead.aspx?BID=56021&AfID=xxxxxx&AdID=xxxxxxLP=www.merchant

//-- Stop hiding script -->
</SCRIPT>

so where do i put my img src code? i assume that we must put this code so the banner image will load, bcos when image loads, browser will automatically send the referrer to clixgalore network too. (the network probably expects two referrers from mywhitehatpage, right? From href and from the img src)

because practically all offers have two kinds of codes inside it (href code, and img src code). Heck, even the text ad codes have a blank img src code inside it. All for the security, i think.

so fellow blackhatters, need your opinions on this issue. Lets say i get into CJ, or neverblueads. i need to put up a banner on my whitehatpage, right? i'll probably run into the same problem again. it's not like they give out straightforward href links with affiliate IDs right? (or is my problem limited only to clixgalore)

my goal has always been the same, to make the affiliate network think that all traffic come from mywhitehatpage.

hope to hear your thoughts on this

thanks
kathy

 

[BozoClown]

Since you are doing a javascript redirect, you can pull up the image and get an impression just before the redirect. The only consequence will be a slightly slower redirect.

This will give you a click through rate of 1. To counter that, You can load your white hat page in a tiny iframe inside your blackhat page or another page where you get visitors so as to lower you CTR.

 

[Jackmack]

Hey man. You mentioned you tested this in firefox. You should also check the referrer for IE too. They behave differently in this case I believe. I could be wrong but I think in this case IE blanks the referrer instead of passing it. I don't know of any referrer testing tools for IE so what I do is just input h**p://www.stardrifter.0rg/cgi-bin/ref.cgi as the end point of my series and it tells me what the referrer is. It'll work for all browsers if you do it like that.

 

[kwong12]

Hey man. You mentioned you tested this in firefox. You should also check the referrer for IE too. They behave differently in this case I believe. I could be wrong but I think in this case IE blanks the referrer instead of passing it. I don't know of any referrer testing tools for IE so what I do is just input h**p://www.stardrifter.0rg/cgi-bin/ref.cgi as the end point of my series and it tells me what the referrer is. It'll work for all browsers if you do it like that.

thanks shiaun! in order to simulate an IE experience, i used an User Agent Switcher (firefox addon) and tried simulating IE7, IE6, opera, etc. got the exact same referrer.

since i got no IE installed, I counterchecked this by opening windows explorer and doing the test. and it worked.

 

[kwong12]

Since you are doing a javascript redirect, you can pull up the image and get an impression just before the redirect. The only consequence will be a slightly slower redirect.

This will give you a click through rate of 1. To counter that, You can load your white hat page in a tiny iframe inside your blackhat page or another page where you get visitors so as to lower you CTR.

thanks for the reply. correct me if i'm wrong here. -> If i load the tiny iframe inside myblackhatpage, the referrer will still be mywhitehatpage.

asssuming i am correct (for the moment).........

So, this iframe method in my blackhatpage, the only drawback to it is if the user manages to detect this iframe right? (i.e. by checking the source code). Advantage is: the aff. networks will never know, cos they'll never discover the blackhatpage to start with.

for everyone to answer......

followup question 1:

and how different is this iframe method from other cloaking methods? (to tell the truth, i have no idea about other cloaking methods). hoping to get some pointers here.

followup question 2:
okay, so now i have a great whitehatpage with that javascript redirection code inside. (plus modification tip from BozoClown). However, if my account manager checks the source code of this whitehatpage , i'm certain to be doomed! I've heard of ways to obfuscate javascript code (ie: create a seperate js file in the server (lets say function.js) , obfuscate it, and replace mywhitehatpage with normal html code but inside it points to this function.js

or any other methods/resources that i should know of? really interested here. thx

followup question 3:
lets say i'm gonna have many different blackhatpages (say, 30) that all redirect to mywhitehatpage. i obviously can't do that ( i could but it doesnt make programming sense to have 30 of those "IF document.referrer == xxxxxx " statements hanging around) . But i could, for example, create a seperate text file in my whitehatserver that lists down all 30 blackhatsites. and my whitehatpage code will read line by line from that text file and do IF comparisons to check the referrer.

or any ideas that worked for you guys in the past?


thanks for the info all of ya, really beginning to like the forums!

 

[kwong12]

Since you are doing a javascript redirect, you can pull up the image and get an impression just before the redirect. The only consequence will be a slightly slower redirect.

This will give you a click through rate of 1. To counter that, You can load your white hat page in a tiny iframe inside your blackhat page or another page where you get visitors so as to lower you CTR.

to reduce the click thru rate,

what are the chances of me buying bulk traffic from people in this forum /using proxy with iframes and directing them all to the blackhatsite which has the tiny iframe? I heard we're not allowed to use iframes? are those good? or would you recommend adwords as opposed to these bulk traffic.

 

[plouyd]

Check all the links they give you to see if you have a generic text link instead of a banner

 

[ximscreamingx]

If you really want to have their banner, why don't you just host it yourself? Or you could use the linking code for text or search and not have to worry about impressions altogether.

X

 

[kwong12]

If you really want to have their banner, why don't you just host it yourself? Or you could use the linking code for text or search and not have to worry about impressions altogether.

X

i don't quite get what you are saying. if i host the banner myself, impressions aren't going to show up in my account manager's statistics.

i don't quite understand your second sentence. if i use only the text code, it would show up in my acc. manager's stats ONLY if the link is clicked (or autoclicked for that matter). in his stats, he will see probably zero impressions of the banner , and CTR of 100%. now that would be suspicious.

btw, even the text code has an embedded img inside it. below is the example of clixgalore's text code that i should paste on mywhitehatpage. (notice the strange img src with zero height and width )

<!-- Begin clixGalore Code-->
<img src="http://www.is1.clixgalore.com/Impression.asp?BID=xxxxxx&AfID=xxxxxx&AdID=xxxx" width="0" height="0" border="0">
<A href="http://www.clixGalore.com/Lead.aspx?BID=xxxxx&AfID=xxxxxx&AdID=xxxx&LP=www.vadmark.com" OnMouseOver="javascript:window.status='';return true;">
Sign up for a free Vadmark account and start earning commissions today. Affiliates can earn 10% on all activities of their referred members for life!</A>
<!-- End clixGalore Code-->

so the point is, the account manager at clixgalore expects to see this strange img src loaded by visitors to my site. (to protect their interests)


so guys, pls tell me, are they implementing the same kind of system over at CJ, clickbooth,maxbounty,neverblue? Cos i'm not in those programs right now.

thanks

 

[bhjohn]

I think what some are trying to say here is, why are you going through all of the trouble with banner code? Do the offers you are trying to run simply NOT have text, search, or email creatives? Is so, those of course you can just use the link and you don't have to worry at all about impressions of the image because there isn't one.

I don't think I have ever seen an offer in a network that didn't have a non-banner link to promote...unless they ONLY form of traffic allowed was website banner traffic. I'm sure these exist, but they are rare if they do. This is why I think some have been questioning why you aren't just using a different link type other than banner.

Please clarify, and maybe tell us which offer you are promoting in the network and we can go check it out and let you know.