Define Black hat... what does it mean to YOU?

[creztor]

Ok, I want to try and keep this civil. I realize this has probably been discussed before, but what the heck I rarely post and this has a bee in my bonnet. I'd like to know what black hat means to you. I'll start with mine. There is a lot of discussion between fraud and blackhat. Some people here say they are different and frown on people using fraudulent methods. Well what does fraud mean to me? People using zip submit offers and setting up a LP where you enter your email to get the latest pictures of Britney is fraud to me. CS is fraud. Using incent on non-incent offers is fraud. Basically any means or method of tricking someone to download or do something that was not what they expected is fraud. So pretty much all the methods on this site in my books fall under fraud. Now before you go and flame me, I'm not saying that's bad. I am just puzzled at posts, like the recent one in the CPA section, about when ppl come here say they are doing their own leads or something of that kind and then they get attacked. Last I checked this is a blackhat forum. If doing your own leads or using incent on offers that shouldn't be incent is fraud, then please I would like to here how one can promote CPA via blackhat methods? What exactly would that involve? Flame on!

 

[havokb8]

hmmm i dont think any of that is fraud except doing your own offers.....but yes what i see alot lately is alot of people condemning for something they really clearly no nothing about, and if they knew alot of these methods and could make as much money as say i do using some of them i doubt they would be complaining then

 

[xxfactorxx]

I would agree with havok, I dont think any of that stuff falls under fraud.

 

[YoungGuns]

When I was brand new to this forum and stupid(er), I had a debate with myself about filling out my own offers. I actually did it in a really small amount (not enough to receive the money), but I just didn't feel right about it. However, if I am actually sending them real leads, I am alright with it. Especially if they actually see that they're really doing the offer.

I haven't done cookie stuffing, but I'm not really against it. I have paid so much money in ebay fees that I just don't care. Plus they're being complete jackasses with their affiliates that are white hat.

If you look at some of my first threads, you will find a similar debate.

 

[creztor]

Thanks havok. I understand my version of fraud isn't something everyone will agree on, that's fine. But I guess I should say, what makes a lead you did yourself of any less value than a lead you generated by tricking someone into submitting their email thinking they were getting something when they didn't. Do people honestly sleep better at night thinking "I didn't do those 100 email submits myself, true the suckers thought they were getting Britney pictures, but at least they are legit leads"? These leads are not what the advertiser wants. I can agree that they are different, one generated by yourself as opposed to by different people, but the point is the advertiser does not want these kinds of leads, or I believe they don't anyway.

Apologies if I am coming off a little strong This is one big bee I got up my arse

 

[bizkiller]

bh means... you do things un-ethically. that's what i think.

 

[havokb8]

Thanks havok. I understand my version of fraud isn't something everyone will agree on, that's fine. But I guess I should say, what makes a lead you did yourself of any less value than a lead you generated by tricking someone into submitting their email thinking they were getting something when they didn't. Do people honestly sleep better at night thinking "I didn't do those 100 email submits myself, true the suckers thought they were getting Britney pictures, but at least they are legit leads"? These leads are not what the advertiser wants. I can agree that they are different, one generated by yourself as opposed to by different people, but the point is the advertiser does not want these kinds of leads, or I believe they don't anyway.

Apologies if I am coming off a little strong This is one big bee I got up my arse

my bank account and frequent vacations make me sleep much better at night, and the advertisers dont complain with what i do, and i do some pretty wild stuff sometimes...so, i dont see the issue no

 

[Gogeta]

BlackHatters know what they are doing is defined as BAD, and do it anyway for specific reasons (not usually including ?get banned?). I like to think of BlackHatters as opportunists. They see an opportunity to gain, and take it, managing the associated risk.

 

[delmages]

I don't look at blackhat tactics as immoral, unethical, fraudulent or illegal. I prefer to look at blackhat as the exploitation of various loopholes, which serves to facilitate the padding of one's pockets.