MayDay - What Are the Quality Signals?

[bananaman5000]

i put up a site recently, with the exact search term in the domain name. i optimized it, built backlinks etc. and now i'm ranking for two other keywords, but not for the term i optimized it for. perhaps G is looking down on sites with the exact search term in the domain name? (i also have another site WITHOUT the search term in the domain that got bumped up from #9 to #2 for the keyword i was targeting)

any thoughts?

 

[cody41]

Most of my wordpress sites still do fairly well because of the way i've structured them from a category hierarchical sense. My category titles are all keyword oriented, and because i've followed a very "natural language" style of content output, most of my long tails are still coming in.

Also, the tags feature of wordpress is still working wonders for traffic.

 

[MisterGemini]

I think that most of what we have learned has to go out of the window and we have to start over, i also think keyword domains are on there last legs, i think the best method would be to have a domain centred around the words buy, shopping, or just any name, it works for amazon and walmart, we also have to how use categories more when using wordpress and use the seo plugin to the max, that means not just filling out the details in the plugin but when posting any content filling out the seo details at the bottom of the post page, i think backlinks will be the same as well as all domains having an even scale because i've used some free .co.cc that rank great and maintain there ranking we next to no backlinks, plugins such reviewazon because it displays prices etc

Yes... basically more attention to details. As for domains, I think the keyword thing comes down to brand. If you can have a brand that includes your keyword.. all the better. Look at BestBuy.

The primary keys is to have top level document match, and content type match. I think keyword term partial match is good, full match is bad now. Not necessarily bad, just less weight.

 

[MisterGemini]

i put up a site recently, with the exact search term in the domain name. i optimized it, built backlinks etc. and now i'm ranking for two other keywords, but not for the term i optimized it for. perhaps G is looking down on sites with the exact search term in the domain name? (i also have another site WITHOUT the search term in the domain that got bumped up from #9 to #2 for the keyword i was targeting)

any thoughts?

Yeah.. like I said in my previous post. Partial match seems ok, while full match doesn't. It's really funny that you are ranking for other terms that are not your prime keyword though. ... Check out the type of content you are ranking for vs. the type of content #1 has for the term you were going after. I bet your site has more in common with the others ranking for that other term, than the site that is #1 for the term you were aiming for.

 

[thestig]

Most of my wordpress sites still do fairly well because of the way i've structured them from a category hierarchical sense. My category titles are all keyword oriented, and because i've followed a very "natural language" style of content output, most of my long tails are still coming in.

Also, the tags feature of wordpress is still working wonders for traffic.

I now see tags as a vital element because all the big sites use tags,, the thing about wordpress categorys is that they work well but to a point, eg: if i wanted a category on say mens watches the next thing i want is a category within that category of say casio mens watches, digital mens watches, need to work out wordpress out so i can do that, any ideas or has anyone done that before, i just want to break it down so the user gets a choice, its no good them hitting a category page that has five post on different watches, see that person might want a certain watch and has come to the home page from a search term of mens watches, just in the hope of finding a watch, now with the wide choice to choose from the user is more likely to stay on your site longer and if googles using say that factor to rank sites then this really is a must and thats why i think mfa sites are dead, its like shopping in a shopping centre or mall, you go to the shop for a watch, but how many times have you really goe to the shop knowing what you want, me i never know i just know i want a product and thats it, which ever one takes my fancy then i buy, go out shopping 2 moro and your soon work out why googles changed the game and i'm glad they have because its better for us in the long run because your be turning out more quailty sites...

 

[thestig]

Yes... basically more attention to details. As for domains, I think the keyword thing comes down to brand. If you can have a brand that includes your keyword.. all the better. Look at BestBuy.

The primary keys is to have top level document match, and content type match. I think keyword term partial match is good, full match is bad now. Not necessarily bad, just less weight.

I think that the keyword domain might have less weight but it you build your home page as a shopping hub with unique content and the right backlinks then you can still rank, its about giving sites that provide the user with what they want, i dont even think its about the amount of words on a page anymore, just type in mens digital watches, now i'm in the uk and am only getting uk searches, but all the sites on the first page have next to nothing in regards to content? and can someone please tell me how to get the world wide searches displayed?

 

[bowcot84]

I now see tags as a vital element because all the big sites use tags,, the thing about wordpress categorys is that they work well but to a point, eg: if i wanted a category on say mens watches the next thing i want is a category within that category of say casio mens watches, digital mens watches, need to work out wordpress out so i can do that, any ideas or has anyone done that before, i just want to break it down so the user gets a choice, its no good them hitting a category page that has five post on different watches, see that person might want a certain watch and has come to the home page from a search term of mens watches, just in the hope of finding a watch, now with the wide choice to choose from the user is more likely to stay on your site longer and if googles using say that factor to rank sites then this really is a must and thats why i think mfa sites are dead, its like shopping in a shopping centre or mall, you go to the shop for a watch, but how many times have you really goe to the shop knowing what you want, me i never know i just know i want a product and thats it, which ever one takes my fancy then i buy, go out shopping 2 moro and your soon work out why googles changed the game and i'm glad they have because its better for us in the long run because your be turning out more quailty sites...

This is a fascinating debate.

I have a number of sites that I would have thought would look like shopping sites to G.
They've dropped like stones.

I have a couple of sites with a SLIGHTLY different layout and content, that are rising.
A few attributes of the ones that are rising, to help contribute to this understanding, and to clarify in my mind...

• They have external links (affiliate images).
• The homepage is text heavy
• They have not been massively Scrapeboxed
• All pages are no more than one click from the homepage (sites are small - 20ish pages)
• They're not div'd up (run of text)

My MNS sites are not the ones really suffering. It is the 1000+ page affiliate sites that have been hit.
Could the root of this be that the domain holds so little weight now? That is what much of my strategy was based on.

I'd be interested to hear from people as to whether the hit has been on sites which are named after a thing i.e. four slice toasters, or a concept like buystuffreallyreallycheap.com.

 

[MisterGemini]

This is a fascinating debate.

I have a number of sites that I would have thought would look like shopping sites to G.
They've dropped like stones.

I have a couple of sites with a SLIGHTLY different layout and content, that are rising.
A few attributes of the ones that are rising, to help contribute to this understanding, and to clarify in my mind...

• They have external links (affiliate images).
• The homepage is text heavy
• They have not been massively Scrapeboxed
• All pages are no more than one click from the homepage (sites are small - 20ish pages)
• They're not div'd up (run of text)

My MNS sites are not the ones really suffering. It is the 1000+ page affiliate sites that have been hit.
Could the root of this be that the domain holds so little weight now? That is what much of my strategy was based on.

I'd be interested to hear from people as to whether the hit has been on sites which are named after a thing i.e. four slice toasters, or a concept like buystuffreallyreallycheap.com.

Yes. Fromwhatihaveseenandgathered.com

It-appears-this-doesnt-work-as-well-anymore.com

Partial-match-is-ok.com

Justadomainmatch.com

Wontcutitanymore.com

Thanksforyouraddedobservations.com!

 

[thestig]

This is a fascinating debate.

I have a number of sites that I would have thought would look like shopping sites to G.
They've dropped like stones.

I have a couple of sites with a SLIGHTLY different layout and content, that are rising.
A few attributes of the ones that are rising, to help contribute to this understanding, and to clarify in my mind...

• They have external links (affiliate images).
• The homepage is text heavy
• They have not been massively Scrapeboxed
• All pages are no more than one click from the homepage (sites are small - 20ish pages)
• They're not div'd up (run of text)

My MNS sites are not the ones really suffering. It is the 1000+ page affiliate sites that have been hit.
Could the root of this be that the domain holds so little weight now? That is what much of my strategy was based on.

I'd be interested to hear from people as to whether the hit has been on sites which are named after a thing i.e. four slice toasters, or a concept like buystuffreallyreallycheap.com.

all my micro niche ones have been hit and the only ones that i have that are still ranking is the one to two word product model number domains.

 

[thestig]

Yes. Fromwhatihaveseenandgathered.com

It-appears-this-doesnt-work-as-well-anymore.com

Partial-match-is-ok.com

Justadomainmatch.com

Wontcutitanymore.com

Thanksforyouraddedobservations.com!

love your reply funny

 

[MisterGemini]

I think that the keyword domain might have less weight but it you build your home page as a shopping hub with unique content and the right backlinks then you can still rank, its about giving sites that provide the user with what they want, i dont even think its about the amount of words on a page anymore, just type in mens digital watches, now i'm in the uk and am only getting uk searches, but all the sites on the first page have next to nothing in regards to content? and can someone please tell me how to get the world wide searches displayed?

I checked out mens digital watches in co.uk google. Surely enough, it was product data. That's what I been trying to convey in my posts. The content matches with the keyword request. You didn't get a 500 word article on mens digital watches did you? No, instead you got a catelog of watches to choose from that were most relevant and gave you the quality experience you wanted. The query mens digital watches has been categorized as a product, and thus google ranks the pages with product on it, not just any content. They now choose what type of content to display.

The first 5 listings I saw were all pages full of mens digital watches. #5 being Amazon. Hey, but check out #3 guy.. he is:

mensdigitalwatches.c0.uk
http://www.mensdigitalwatches.c0.uk
Now when you look at his page, you can see that he is again consistent with showing product data. He mixed in a little content on the bottom of the pages, but stuck mostly to the product data, and organized his categories by brand. Almost perfect. If this guy wasn't so lazy, and put a little more effort into it, he could have #1, and he is an affiliate store for the same guy that is sitting in #7 on the same query.

So you see people, it's not about authority sites anymore. Even this guy was able to effectively beat out even the store he sends traffic to and amazon. I don't see his domain name matching having anything to do with his position in this case. It was his quality signal for being an extensive product source for that search term.

I don't know about the uk, but on your google home page, you should see something like 'go to google.com' in the bottom right below the search bar. or you can just go to google.com/ncr and it should get you there.

 

[thestig]

I checked out mens digital watches in co.uk google. Surely enough, it was product data. That's what I been trying to convey in my posts. The content matches with the keyword request. You didn't get a 500 word article on mens digital watches did you? No, instead you got a catelog of watches to choose from that were most relevant and gave you the quality experience you wanted. The query mens digital watches has been categorized as a product, and thus google ranks the pages with product on it, not just any content. They now choose what type of content to display.

The first 5 listings I saw were all pages full of mens digital watches. #5 being Amazon. Hey, but check out #3 guy.. he is:

mensdigitalwatches.c0.uk

Now when you look at his page, you can see that he is again consistent with showing product data. He mixed in a little content on the bottom of the pages, but stuck mostly to the product data, and organized his categories by brand. Almost perfect. If this guy wasn't so lazy, and put a little more effort into it, he could have #1, and he is an affiliate store for the same guy that is sitting in #7 on the same query.

So you see people, it's not about authority sites anymore. Even this guy was able to effectively beat out even the store he sends traffic to and amazon. I don't see his domain name matching having anything to do with his position in this case. It was his quality signal for being an extensive product source for that search term.

I don't know about the uk, but on your google home page, you should see something like 'go to google.com' in the bottom right below the search bar. or you can just go to google.com/ncr and it should get you there.[/QUOTE

in my search he's in position #3, but this is the way to design the sites guys, if someone can check what other terms this guys sites ranking for then we can tell if the site can rank for more than one search term, which should not be a problem, also thanks m8 for letting about the google search but still no joy

 

[caroline42]

Here are some things I noticed:

1. Wikipedia is always coming up #1 because it seems like everybody is linking to each page! I'm not kidding. I can understand though. People want to add a reference to something, they link it to the appropriate wikipedia page. The end result though has been it getting all these rankings. So next time you think it's a good idea to link to wikipedia for something related, think again about the beast you helped create.

Mister Gemini

You are sooo right mate; I am telling this since years to my clients - nobody listens.
It's a general habit not only related to wiki.

 

[Frankie4Fingers]

...and can someone please tell me how to get the world wide searches displayed?

If I go to Google.it, in the right lower corner after some seconds it appears the link 'Go to Google.com'. If I click on it, I can do global searches.

I guess it's the same with Google.co.uk

 

[Frankie4Fingers]

Mr. Gemini,

I noticed something that I think you'll love since somewhat confirms your theory on quality signals

I had a tiny site that was like SearchDogFood.com that was sitting in the middle of the first page of G for the kw in the domain without any link building. After the 4th June, it went on the first position on 2nd page of G for the very same kw.

What I noticed is that now in the first page there are only webpages that contains search fields OR a link to the main search tool for "DogFood". Bear in mind that my site had only text in the pages (you know, that little trick that make Adsense CTR increase because the visitors, tired of not finding what they are looking for, start to click on every link they see ).

So it really seems that for specific set of keywords Google algo now knows that have to find specific "fields" in the pages...

 

[MisterGemini]

Mr. Gemini,

I noticed something that I think you'll love since somewhat confirms your theory on quality signals

I had a tiny site that was like SearchDogFood.com that was sitting in the middle of the first page of G for the kw in the domain without any link building. After the 4th June, it went on the first position on 2nd page of G for the very same kw.

What I noticed is that now in the first page there are only webpages that contains search fields OR a link to the main search tool for "DogFood". Bear in mind that my site had only text in the pages (you know, that little trick that make Adsense CTR increase because the visitors, tired of not finding what they are looking for, start to click on every link they see ).

So it really seems that for specific set of keywords Google algo now knows that have to find specific "fields" in the pages...

Awesome observations Frankie. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. This is exactly what the whole new quality thing is about.

I don't know how important this page is to you, but if you can run and experiment on it to see what happens that would be great. Can you do something like add a search bar to it somewhere on the page? Look at the number one guy and his fields and try to add something similar, but doesn't need to be functional.

This is just to see if google is looking for the right code elements, or is testing out the functionality of it. Wait a bit, and lets see what happens. After that, try either adding other search elements via links on the page (again if possible), then finally add a real search function that works. Basically progressively keep adding those quality signals to match 'search' until you see an impact. If you can't do it that's ok, but it would certainly help you get a grasp on just how much is going on, and of course get your site back in the game.

 

[ipopbb]

Mr. Gemini,

I noticed something that I think you'll love since somewhat confirms your theory on quality signals

I had a tiny site that was like SearchDogFood.com that was sitting in the middle of the first page of G for the kw in the domain without any link building. After the 4th June, it went on the first position on 2nd page of G for the very same kw.

What I noticed is that now in the first page there are only webpages that contains search fields OR a link to the main search tool for "DogFood". Bear in mind that my site had only text in the pages (you know, that little trick that make Adsense CTR increase because the visitors, tired of not finding what they are looking for, start to click on every link they see ).

So it really seems that for specific set of keywords Google algo now knows that have to find specific "fields" in the pages...

I'm trying to understand this... can you provide a screenshot or some source of what you think google is detecting differently?

Thanks,

Ted

 

[MisterGemini]

I'm trying to understand this... can you provide a screenshot or some source of what you think google is detecting differently?

Thanks,

Ted

He was saying that the keyword term he competed on included the phrasing 'search' in it. His page, which didn't really have any sort of search box fields in it (ie. form fields) to search dropped right off page one.

When he looked at who took over the top placements, they were all pages that actually had a search function in their pages, thus validating the quality of the page because the keyword was for a search phrase, google sent them to results that included a search function. I hope I explained that clearly enough.

Let see if I can find another example... 'search cat food'. Now go to google and look at the top results, and you will find that the top results have a nice big 'search' function and are related to cat food as well.

Basically google is matching keyword query to content type.

 

[ipopbb]

He was saying that the keyword term he competed on included the phrasing 'search' in it. His page, which didn't really have any sort of search box fields in it (ie. form fields) to search dropped right off page one.

When he looked at who took over the top placements, they were all pages that actually had a search function in their pages, thus validating the quality of the page because the keyword was for a search phrase, google sent them to results that included a search function. I hope I explained that clearly enough.

Let see if I can find another example... 'search cat food'. Now go to google and look at the top results, and you will find that the top results have a nice big 'search' function and are related to cat food as well.

Basically google is matching keyword query to content type.

Bummer... the search for just plain 'cat food' produces pages with search fields too... I think search fields are too common in top ranking sites to observe a pattern with.

 

[MisterGemini]

Bummer... the search for just plain 'cat food' produces pages with search fields too... I think search fields are too common in top ranking sites to observe a pattern with.

Try again. Look at the results of 'cat food' then look at the results of 'search cat food' and compare what Google displayed. The Top 5 positioned got changed out with cat food brands, while some of the results previous with 'search cat food' got dropped to the bottom.